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Djed Spence

robp135 said:
This is how I see it. Think most would agree here as well it’s just about how much you value each of them. I will say it again Spence is not a player id be actively looking to sell. But if he does go it’s probably the right call from the club.

Reasons to keep Spence
  1. Proven Premiership level Full Back
  2. Can play both sides
  3. Very effective player in paticular game states
  4. Known commodity at the club and appears to be popular in the dressing room
  5. Successful World Cup should improve his confidence and therefore performances moving forward

Reasons to sell Spence
  1. At the peak of his value
  2. Been at the club for 4 years so any sale will be mostly profit
  3. Not a perfect style fit for RDZ full back
  4. May have reached his peak ability and won’t develop further
  5. May become unhappy in a backup role without European football
Click to expand...
Genuinely interested in what traits you think RDZ wants from his fullback?
 
Ace Face said:
Genuinely interested in what traits you think RDZ wants from his fullback?
Click to expand...

I think he wants highly technical players who are particularly strong passers in his defense. Porro, JPVH, Senesi are high technical players. Danso, Udogie, Robertson are good technical players. VDV & Spence are probably lower than RDZ would target in a new player. VDV offers so much in others areas that RDZ is prepared to make the rest of the defense work around him. The players linked as RB options are Williams, Lewis, Khalaili or Gray moving to RB would all be better passers than Spence.

Williams (pink) v Spence (green)


IMG_3467.jpeg
 
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robp135 said:
I think he wants highly technical players who are particularly strong passers in his defense. Porro, JPVH, Senesi are high technical players. Danso, Udogie, Robertson are good technical players. VDV & Spence are probably lower than RDZ would target in a new player. VDV offers so much in others areas that RDZ is prepared to make the rest of the defense work around him. The players linked as RB options are Williams, Lewis, Khalaili or Gray moving to RB would all be better passers than Spence.

Williams (pink) v Spence (green)


View attachment 22908
Click to expand...
I think you underrate Spence's technical ability. He rarely gives the ball away, even in tight spaces.

And you have to judge any of these diagrams like the one you included with the mitigating circumstance that a) he was mostly played on the side of his weaker foot and thus not expected to be putting in crosses or getting into attacking positions, and b) the team was a f***ing mess with ridiculous tactical instructions.
 
Ace Face said:
I think you underrate Spence's technical ability. He rarely gives the ball away, even in tight spaces.

And you have to judge any of these diagrams like the one you included with the mitigating circumstance that a) he was mostly played on the side of his weaker foot and thus not expected to be putting in crosses or getting into attacking positions, and b) the team was a f***ing mess with ridiculous tactical instructions.
Click to expand...

Williams has been playing on his weaker side and in a team that was also in a relegation battle for most of the season that had 3 managers.
 
robp135 said:
I think he wants highly technical players who are particularly strong passers in his defense. Porro, JPVH, Senesi are high technical players. Danso, Udogie, Robertson are good technical players. VDV & Spence are probably lower than RDZ would target in a new player. VDV offers so much in others areas that RDZ is prepared to make the rest of the defense work around him. The players linked as RB options are Williams, Lewis, Khalaili or Gray moving to RB would all be better passers than Spence.

Williams (pink) v Spence (green)


View attachment 22908
Click to expand...

How is that wagon wheel justified in terms of all things equal? Without looking I imagine Williams has played more football than Spence so those values have longer to peculate under Williams??

Edit: I just checked, Williams played nearly 1500 mins more football this season.
 
robp135 said:
Williams has been playing on his weaker side and in a team that was also in a relegation battle for most of the season that had 3 managers.
Click to expand...
Fair point.

I still think Spence has been held back by recent circumstances and has a much higher ceiling than we have seen. The eye-test at the WC back that up too.

And you still haven't expanded on the abilities you think RDZ is looking for in his fullbacks...;)
 
Ace Face said:
Fair point.

I still think Spence has been held back by recent circumstances and has a much higher ceiling than we have seen. The eye-test at the WC back that up too.

And you still haven't expanded on the abilities you think RDZ is looking for in his fullbacks...;)
Click to expand...

That eye test is interesting actually. Djed has been really good from the bench and he was really poor against Ghana. What the eye test has told me that England only have one full-back that could go up against the best and that is Reece James even though he's made of glass.

I do think Djed has been naturally held back though. I can imagine he'd jump at a chance to play a full season as a RB at a PL club to get to the next level.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Much of a muchness swap IMO. Williams is good, I like him as a player, I like Spence as a player. Suppose its a case of what the manager wants.
Click to expand...
Williams is an outstanding player. Dont believe we are after him though. He would likely be played as a wingback and we have enough already.Spence is also a player we should keep as he can play anywhere really, except up front.
 
robp135 said:
This is how I see it. Think most would agree here as well it’s just about how much you value each of them. I will say it again Spence is not a player id be actively looking to sell. But if he does go it’s probably the right call from the club.

Reasons to keep Spence
  1. Proven Premiership level Full Back
  2. Can play both sides
  3. Very effective player in paticular game states
  4. Known commodity at the club and appears to be popular in the dressing room
  5. Successful World Cup should improve his confidence and therefore performances moving forward
Click to expand...
6. He's English
7. Great on social media - free PR for the club
 
Muttley said:
That eye test is interesting actually. Djed has been really good from the bench and he was really poor against Ghana. What the eye test has told me that England only have one full-back that could go up against the best and that is Reece James even though he's made of glass.

I do think Djed has been naturally held back though. I can imagine he'd jump at a chance to play a full season as a RB at a PL club to get to the next level.
Click to expand...
Sure he was poor against Ghana, but then several players in that squad have had at least 1 poor game.
 
I am both surprised and disappointed that we are looking to get rid of Spence, assuming the rumours are true.
Spence will get better.

Yet on the left we are happy with back left backs whom while have a lot of experience are both sliding down the downward curve.

There are definitely disadvantages when you give your manager unlimited power.
 
robp135 said:
This is how I see it. Think most would agree here as well it’s just about how much you value each of them. I will say it again Spence is not a player id be actively looking to sell. But if he does go it’s probably the right call from the club.
Reasons to sell Spence
  1. At the peak of his value
  2. Been at the club for 4 years so any sale will be mostly profit
  3. Not a perfect style fit for RDZ full back
  4. May have reached his peak ability and won’t develop further
  5. May become unhappy in a backup role without European football
Click to expand...

​

  1. Why sell him just because his value is high? If he’s a good player and helping the team, the point is to win matches, not make transfer profits. We'd only end up spending big money trying to replace someone we already have.
  2. The profit argument is backwards. The fact he cost relatively little and counts as mostly profit if sold is exactly why we should keep him. He’s become a valuable squad player without costing us a fortune.
  3. I'm not convinced he doesn't fit RDZ's style. Spence is athletic, comfortable carrying the ball, can beat a man and progress play. Good coaches adapt players, and he has the raw attributes to thrive in different systems.
  4. How has he reached his peak already? He's only just had his first sustained spell of top-level football. Plenty of full backs improve massively in their mid-to-late twenties once they gain experience and tactical understanding.
  5. The idea he'll be unhappy as a backup is pure speculation. He fought his way back from being completely out of the picture at Spurs. If anything, he's shown a great attitude and willingness to compete for his place.
 
Ultimately I trust RDZ but will be gutted if Spence goes, a rare and highly entertaining character. If it was me I would keep him for his utility value - RB, LB and I recall at least one game where he did pretty well at CB.
 
NaijaSpurs said:

​

  1. Why sell him just because his value is high? If he’s a good player and helping the team, the point is to win matches, not make transfer profits. We'd only end up spending big money trying to replace someone we already have.
  2. The profit argument is backwards. The fact he cost relatively little and counts as mostly profit if sold is exactly why we should keep him. He’s become a valuable squad player without costing us a fortune.
  3. I'm not convinced he doesn't fit RDZ's style. Spence is athletic, comfortable carrying the ball, can beat a man and progress play. Good coaches adapt players, and he has the raw attributes to thrive in different systems.
  4. How has he reached his peak already? He's only just had his first sustained spell of top-level football. Plenty of full backs improve massively in their mid-to-late twenties once they gain experience and tactical understanding.
  5. The idea he'll be unhappy as a backup is pure speculation. He fought his way back from being completely out of the picture at Spurs. If anything, he's shown a great attitude and willingness to compete for his place.
Click to expand...

The profit is less to do with the fee we paid and more to do with the way football teams structure transfer expenditure in their accounts. For that reason, any player that’s not a guarenteed starting XI player and has been with the club for 3+ seasons the club should be open to selling.
 
NaijaSpurs said:
I am both surprised and disappointed that we are looking to get rid of Spence, assuming the rumours are true.
Spence will get better.

Yet on the left we are happy with back left backs whom while have a lot of experience are both sliding down the downward curve.

There are definitely disadvantages when you give your manager unlimited power.
Click to expand...

Got to separate the noise from reality, huge difference between the club/manager is trying to sell Spence vs. we will listen to offers (pretty much for anyone). Obviously, Spence is making headlines because of England, and a lot of people didn't realize he was a good player

I think this is on Spence, if he wants to stay, he realizes he won't start every game, I don't see the club pushing him out.

However if he wants to play every week, wants a chance to be #1 somewhere (e.g. rumours of Inter), I think the club would let him go for right price. I don't see nonsense rumours of cheap price to Everton as example making sense.

Did say it earlier, I think Djed needs a certain environment around him to be successful (he doesn't seem to walk into clubs and hit the ground running), it seems to be working for him here at Spurs, he might want to think about that before pushing to go (if he is)
 
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