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Djed Spence

I've skipped the last few pages of this tbh playground stuff.
Can't say I've ever noticed spence having an attitude problem, but it doesn't surprise me that gets some grief, loads of players do, Jan and Hugo who were I think most would agree were great servants to this club got stick because of their "body language".
The majority of us want nothing but the best for the club, when it's not going right (and it usually isn't) it's easy to lash out, Spence is target atm, just as Romero was, Vic has been and before him Porro.
 
Gazza said:
By letting his performances on the pitch direct the narrative rather than getting into petty spats with a respected man in Neil Warnock who only offered him some solid advice having worked with many a player.

He has all the attributes to be a good player but his application on the pitch has not really been proven to merry up with his physical skill set.

I’m not dogging him out, I think he’s got it in him to get to a very very high level
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My word!…. that was a long while ago.

Again, please describe what you mean by his application on the pitch?
 
Gazza said:
But can we not just go case by case, player for player.
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Yes, absolutely.

Gazza said:
I loved Timothy Atouba back in the day even though he was a liability, it certainly wasn’t because he was black.
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Likewise. I was at Newcash away for his finest moment. And saw some of his absurd ones too LOL.


Gazza said:
I just think it’s so lazy to throw the race card or some religious card into the equation when people on this forum at least are not even questioning that and rightly so.
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OK. All good.


Gazza said:
I think it’s got to do with his actions and it’s allowed to have people have a dim view on them cases without it being for any other reason than just that.
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What actions exactly? What actions has Djed Spence displayed that earmark him?


Gazza said:
Sure you are right there are many crooks in the business dressed in suites from all colours, but again why bring in the colour?
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I respectfully think you're now decontextualising what I posted. I have read on several occasions (not necessarily here I might add) that Spence hangs out with some 'dubious people' which is usually followed by some stereotyping based on some of his friends. One of MY friends made the comment to me. Thus my example. Which was actually designed to specifically state the crooks and wrong 'uns appear in all shapes, sizes and appearances.

Gazza said:
I actually think it dilutes the genuine abhorrent racism things that happen because people will just say “here we go again” … it’s lazy and not helpful in countering genuine cases.
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OK. I think that point does certainly apply in some cases, but can you then explain to me what it is about Djed Spence that winds people up so much? Because aside from being a bit 'cool' and affecting a certain 'style and manner', I don't see it.

Gazza said:
As far as religious views are concerned … that can get in the bin as it’s like me poking fun at someone who loves Harry Potter pie in the sky!
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I am not sure what you're referring to here.
 
Gazza said:
Yeah but why don’t we ignore the noise that we are not currently engaging in and dragging all of that bollox into it and discuss what’s before us on this forum.
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IMO, this discussion arose again because Spence was singled out in the Ghana game as being responsible for various things going wrong, whilst the rest of the team got not nearly as much stick. From that came the same old flimflam about Spence. Thus in the Djed Spence thread on here, it was discussed. And now, here we are.

Gazza said:
I still can’t see anywhere where someone on here has posted anything about his race or choice of fairytale.
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Are you suggesting that this forum only discussed 'on forum' comments and opinions? I am trying to understand what you're saying here.
 
Gazza said:
By letting his performances on the pitch direct the narrative rather than getting into petty spats with a respected man in Neil Warnock who only offered him some solid advice having worked with many a player.

He has all the attributes to be a good player but his application on the pitch has not really been proven to merry up with his physical skill set.

I’m not dogging him out, I think he’s got it in him to get to a very very high level
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Let's bring this back to the player and his football. What do you mean by 'application on the pitch'?
 
Gazza said:
Yeah but why don’t we ignore the noise that we are not currently engaging in and dragging all of that bollox into it and discuss what’s before us on this forum.

I still can’t see anywhere where someone on here has posted anything about his race or choice of fairytale.
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I was thinking about this post of yours for a long time. I genuinely see where you're coming from. I also genuinely see you're asking a legitimate question as to why it's all coming up again now. I mean, I think I addressed my perspective as to why in an earlier answer, but I started to think more deeply about it...and I wanted to offer you my personal reason why I am not really up for ignoring it.

I've spent many many decades watching the game (as have many here I know) and in those decades, I have seen black players repeatedly treated in a 'different' way to others if they show either individualism or their own personality. Raheem Sterling had it. Marcus Rashford had it. Nicholas Anelka had it. Edgar Davids had it. Dele Alli had it. Mario Ballotelli had it; in fact, he's a really interesting example when juxtaposed with Zlatan. One is always clamed off, the other is revered. Both carry attitude. Neither is personally my favourite human (from what I know of them anyway). Now Djed is getting it, as has Jude Bellingham. I think I'm just tired of seeing black players whose lives don't 'suit' how others think they should be getting both called out and then associated with tropes and cliches. It's a personal thing which maybe some others here share?
Anyway, I wanted to honestly answer your question.
 
thfcsteff said:
I was thinking about this post of yours for a long time. I genuinely see where you're coming from. I also genuinely see you're asking a legitimate question as to why it's all coming up again now. I mean, I think I addressed my perspective as to why in an earlier answer, but I started to think more deeply about it...and I wanted to offer you my personal reason why I am not really up for ignoring it.

I've spent many many decades watching the game (as have many here I know) and in those decades, I have seen black players repeatedly treated in a 'different' way to others if they show either individualism or their own personality. Raheem Sterling had it. Marcus Rashford had it. Nicholas Anelka had it. Edgar Davids had it. Dele Alli had it. Mario Ballotelli had it; in fact, he's a really interesting example when juxtaposed with Zlatan. One is always clamed off, the other is revered. Both carry attitude. Neither is personally my favourite human (from what I know of them anyway). Now Djed is getting it, as has Jude Bellingham. I think I'm just tired of seeing black players whose lives don't 'suit' how others think they should be getting both called out and then associated with tropes and cliches. It's a personal thing which maybe some others here share?
Anyway, I wanted to honestly answer your question.
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So essentially, we cannot critique a player in djed Spence as he looks like he switches off in games and doesn’t concentrate at times and to call that out is because people are racially bias?

If anything I’ve only given back handed compliments saying that he could go on to be an elite player if he used his physical attributes and applied himself better in games pertaining to what I’ve just mentioned.

And yes in various outlets he has opinions and people won’t agree with them … or the way he portrays himself people don’t like. It works both ways. I don’t particularly like everything I see of him in social media or outlets but I’ve already discussed previously.

But then to drag a back catalogue of black players into it just doesn’t sit well with me personally. It’s case by case, person by person.
 
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thfcsteff said:
I was thinking about this post of yours for a long time. I genuinely see where you're coming from. I also genuinely see you're asking a legitimate question as to why it's all coming up again now. I mean, I think I addressed my perspective as to why in an earlier answer, but I started to think more deeply about it...and I wanted to offer you my personal reason why I am not really up for ignoring it.

I've spent many many decades watching the game (as have many here I know) and in those decades, I have seen black players repeatedly treated in a 'different' way to others if they show either individualism or their own personality. Raheem Sterling had it. Marcus Rashford had it. Nicholas Anelka had it. Edgar Davids had it. Dele Alli had it. Mario Ballotelli had it; in fact, he's a really interesting example when juxtaposed with Zlatan. One is always clamed off, the other is revered. Both carry attitude. Neither is personally my favourite human (from what I know of them anyway). Now Djed is getting it, as has Jude Bellingham. I think I'm just tired of seeing black players whose lives don't 'suit' how others think they should be getting both called out and then associated with tropes and cliches. It's a personal thing which maybe some others here share?
Anyway, I wanted to honestly answer your question.
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I think Zlatan got tarred with that brush as well tbh. At least by the British press who used to always bring up his record against English teams. Cantona, Vardy, Stephen Ireland spring to mind. LeSaux was classed as gay because he read the telegraph lol. Becks was hated until the Greece game. Romero for us at the moment as well.
 
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I think you have to look at Djed in the different cycles. He has been the exciting Boro loanee at Forest who we were excited to sign. He has been the club signing that the manager didn’t want. He has been the underwhelming loanee home and abroad who even a 16/17 year old Gray kept out the side. He has been the breath of fresh air returnee who became a first team utility player and England international. I could continue but I think you get where I’m going with this.

I think the challenge is that because of this evolving story sometimes we don’t have the pure football conversation about him. To be fair to him he’s done well and the next chapter should be about him earning the RB shirt outright if it really is a fairytale. To me, that’s the conversation most of us want.

In that football conversation. I still have my doubts whether it is a happy ending. I want to be wrong though and want to see him iron out some areas of his game.

Certainly happy either way with the 2 guys we have for RB. This is Spurs though so DJed will probably end up at Everton this summer 😂
 
Muttley said:
I think you have to look at Djed in the different cycles. He has been the exciting Boro loanee at Forest who we were excited to sign. He has been the club signing that the manager didn’t want. He has been the underwhelming loanee home and abroad who even a 16/17 year old Gray kept out the side. He has been the breath of fresh air returnee who became a first team utility player and England international. I could continue but I think you get where I’m going with this.

I think the challenge is that because of this evolving story sometimes we don’t have the pure football conversation about him. To be fair to him he’s done well and the next chapter should be about him earning the RB shirt outright if it really is a fairytale. To me, that’s the conversation most of us want.

In that football conversation. I still have my doubts whether it is a happy ending. I want to be wrong though and want to see him iron out some areas of his game.

Certainly happy either way with the 2 guys we have for RB. This is Spurs though so DJed will probably end up at Everton this summer 😂
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Not really been discussed but….why would he want to be at Spurs? He is very clearly 2nd choice at RB. His LB minutes will now go to Robertson.

He is in the England squad. Despite the press noise he is trusted by Tuchel. There are 3 English RB’s you can argue are better than him. James & Livramento always injured and Trent does not work in the system. He wil probably want and go and be first choice somewhere.
 
robp135 said:
Not really been discussed but….why would he want to be at Spurs? He is very clearly 2nd choice at RB. His LB minutes will now go to Robertson.

He is in the England squad. Despite the press noise he is trusted by Tuchel. There are 3 English RB’s you can argue are better than him. James & Livramento always injured and Trent does not work in the system. He wil probably want and go and be first choice somewhere.
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Yep, not to mention the P&L profit in selling him, making Gray the deputy
 
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