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Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

Gazza Dazzla said:
Doubt it, not since the autumn. If we had of been getting close Ange would have just picked his first team for the league games as well…
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I know it's not just you mate so I'm not actually having a go. But this idea that Thomas Frank has been this uniquely bad coach and our struggles are all on him is simply not true. Nor does the evidence say that Ange could have simply played his away out of trouble if he needed to. These arguments just contribute to the polarisation in the fanbase.

We lost games and failed to beat relegation teams last season when we had our strongest players available. We have also seen Thomas Frank perform well in Europe this season which, like last year belies our league form. So there is no guarantee that if faced with the same competition for relegation as we are faced with this season we would have fared any better under Ange.

Holding up last seasons final points tally difference from those teams who were relegated as some form of proof that we were somehow more resilient to the relegation threat is nonsense. We got lucky last year. We still lost 22 games out of 38. Ange still put 11 Spurs players on that pitch who lost those games!

Neither Ange nor TF have been good enough for Spurs. Let's hope we find someone who is
 
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SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
One other thing on the fact that Frank was so different to what came before, other than training, coaching, playing system and intensity, is motivation.

Again this is not to say Frank cannot motivate. But it is abundantly clear he has a very different persona and style to the previous guy. And the players never lost faith in the previous guy, whose motivation was one of his key strengths. I think when the players were looking for a jolt of inspiration to get them fully buying in to this new way of doing things, I don’t think they ever got it. ‘We will lose games’ is just so different. And I can see what Frank was trying, it’s to be calm, to be balanced, to be a bedrock in the chaos of high level football. But again to me it smacks of believing that so much about the previous guy was wrong that you need the contrasting antidote to him, and that led us down a really stupid path.
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Spot on. Clubs that know what they’re doing have continuity in style of play when they change managers:

Arsenal - Wenger > Emery > Arteta

Liverpool - Rodgers > Klopp > Slot

Ok so not like for like but they’re not radically different from the previous guy and they all play on the front foot.
 
Robspur12 said:
I know it's not just you mate so I'm not actually having a go. But this idea that Thomas Frank has been this uniquely bad coach and our struggles are all on him is simply not true. Nor does the evidence say that Ange could have simply played his away out of trouble if he needed to. These arguments just contribute to the polarisation in the fanbase.

We lost games and failed to beat relegation teams last season when we had our strongest players available. We have also seen Thomas Frank perform well in Europe this season which, like last year belies our league form. So there is no guarantee that if faced with the same competition for relegation as we are faced with this season we would have fared any better under Ange.

Holding up last seasons final points tally difference from those teams who were relegated as some form of proof that we were somehow more resilient to the relegation threat is nonsense. We got lucky last year. We still lost 22 games out of 38. Ange still put 11 Spurs players on that pitch who lost those games!

Neither Ange nor TF have been good enough for Spurs. Let's hope we find someone who is
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Is there a single person on here who has made a single post saying that our struggles this season are all on Frank?
 
Robspur12 said:
I think you have missed the point of my post?
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Could definitely be the case, for sure has happened before.

I decided to not go into the Ange thing at this point.

But you did also write "But this idea that Thomas Frank has been this uniquely bad coach and our struggles are all on him is simply not true." I haven't seen anyone make that point or express that idea on here?
 
Robspur12 said:
I know it's not just you mate so I'm not actually having a go. But this idea that Thomas Frank has been this uniquely bad coach and our struggles are all on him is simply not true. Nor does the evidence say that Ange could have simply played his away out of trouble if he needed to. These arguments just contribute to the polarisation in the fanbase.

We lost games and failed to beat relegation teams last season when we had our strongest players available. We have also seen Thomas Frank perform well in Europe this season which, like last year belies our league form. So there is no guarantee that if faced with the same competition for relegation as we are faced with this season we would have fared any better under Ange.

Holding up last seasons final points tally difference from those teams who were relegated as some form of proof that we were somehow more resilient to the relegation threat is nonsense. We got lucky last year. We still lost 22 games out of 38. Ange still put 11 Spurs players on that pitch who lost those games!

Neither Ange nor TF have been good enough for Spurs. Let's hope we find someone who is
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I think it’s pretty clear Ange rested his best players from about Feb onwards. Of course there’s no guarantee that if you start Romero and VDV, to name 2 as an example, that the results would have been better, but you’re giving yourself the best chance. The fact is Ange never needed to though because we were never actually in danger, unlike now under Frank.
 
braineclipse said:
Could definitely be the case, for sure has happened before.

I decided to not go into the Ange thing at this point.

But you did also write "But this idea that Thomas Frank has been this uniquely bad coach and our struggles are all on him is simply not true." I haven't seen anyone make that point or express that idea on here?
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There have been a lot of posts about TF. Without forensically going into each one I can't confirm or deny if that's true. But I am sure for some it's not far off.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
I think it’s pretty clear Ange rested his best players from about Feb onwards. Of course there’s no guarantee that if you start Romero and VDV, to name 2 as an example, that the results would have been better, but you’re giving yourself the best chance. The fact is Ange never needed to though because we were never actually in danger, unlike now under Frank.
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Not because of Ange though. That's what I am trying to say. It's was because the 3 teams occupying the bottom 3 were uniquely bad. We still lost at various points to 2 of them I believe.
 
thfcsteff said:
This is one of the main issues (IMO) with a data-driven club. It needs such a solid structure and history of having evolved from that metric to work as its own entity.

I am not saying data doesn't have a very important place; of course it does! But you need the intangibles of a football club too. And when that embraces winning a trophy, that needs to be noted.

I believe the data last season was viewed in mono-context.

Once it was clear this lot were going to stick to cheapish recruitment and Lange-driven practices, I understand why they chose Frank. But it was a poor fit from the get-go. You're looking to morph a model which works well for certain clubs at certain levels to this craziness! It was doomed to failure from the home defeat to Chelsea IMO...

And yes.
We went a 180 with this guy, not just in style but in approach. Worrying too much about shutting down the other team and not enough time on how we could beat them...

I feel sorry for him, but I will NOT miss him
at all!!!
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That’s so true. Data without context. That’s what this has felt like all along. I often assume when the club puts these sort of things in their press releases (eg results weren’t good enough from X date) that THEY know there was a lot of context behind what happened, but they put these things in to placate the fans about the decisions they have made in an easy to understand way.

But to see what has happened with Frank, the appointment but also that the players looked like they had zero clue what they were doing on the pitch, and to think they still tried to demonstrate patience with it…it’s pretty clear THEY actually buy into the data without context too. Which is a scary thing to be honest.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Spot on. Clubs that know what they’re doing have continuity in style of play when they change managers:

Arsenal - Wenger > Emery > Arteta

Liverpool - Rodgers > Klopp > Slot

Ok so not like for like but they’re not radically different from the previous guy and they all play on the front foot.
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I'd say Emery is quite the contrast from Wenger and then early Arteta was quite the contrast to Emery

Conversely: Mourinho to Nuno to Conte to Ange to Frank - a run of 5 managers with only Ange being one that doesn't fit stylistically
 
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Robspur12 said:
Not because of Ange though. That's what I am trying to say. It's was because the 3 teams occupying the bottom 3 were uniquely bad. We still lost at various points to 2 of them I believe.
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Yes we were equally bad last season and this but the teams around or just below us are a lot better this year. So the stakes are higher.
 
thfcsteff said:
It will all come out now, but the eye and ear test told most of the story anyway...

https://archive.ph/fPz9d
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The performances and results suggested something was amiss but its still somewhat surprising to read just how bad things appear to have been behind the scenes. I guess we have seen visible signs for a while with the incidents involving Van De Ven and Spence as examples but it sounds like the players haven't bought into Frank and his tactics at all and have felt shackled.

Biggest surprise reading this is that the board stuck with him for so long, but i guess they can say that they gave him every opportunity to turn things around even if that was never going to happen.
 
Robspur12 said:
Not because of Ange though. That's what I am trying to say. It's was because the 3 teams occupying the bottom 3 were uniquely bad. We still lost at various points to 2 of them I believe.
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And struggled to beat Tamworth (we were a very late misplaced Tamworth shot away from them inflicting quite possbily the most embarrassing result in the club's history).
 
Glenda's Legs said:
My first reaction to reading that was is this really supposed to be journalism? Then I realised it was the Telegraph (which used to be decent despite being diametrically opposed to my own views) but is now no better than the red tops.
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I grew up in a Telegraph reading house and while like you being the polar opposite of my views it did at least have a very good sports section but now, I wouldn't use it as bog roll.
 
suffolkspur said:
The performances and results suggested something was amiss but its still somewhat surprising to read just how bad things appear to have been behind the scenes. I guess we have seen visible signs for a while with the incidents involving Van De Ven and Spence as examples but it sounds like the players haven't bought into Frank and his tactics at all and have felt shackled.

Biggest surprise reading this is that the board stuck with him for so long, but i guess they can say that they gave him every opportunity to turn things around even if that was never going to happen.
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Their approach hardly builds confidence that the next guy will fare much better. Hope that I'm proved wrong, but I'm pretty sure that we need a Poch-style clear out of a lot of these numbskulls.
 
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