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Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

Hold no ill will toward Frank.

I actually think he’s been put in the worst position of any of our managers if I’m completely honest, crap backing from the board, injuries, just everything all at once to the point that I don’t really know how he was ever going to achieve any success. It then hasn’t helped with the set up that has shown over time that he isn’t the right fit for us.

I think he probably goes to somewhere like Palace now and likely does pretty well for himself.

Simple fact is, we’re in trouble. So he had to go because we need a bounce, a different feeling, a different atmosphere… a different, anything really to try and get ourselves out of trouble and stay in the league.

This club is in a wretched place and mismanaged for a long time, those at the top need to take a long look at themselves.

But thank you to Thomas Frank, it hasn’t worked, that isn’t all on him, but he tried and put his efforts in whilst carrying himself with respect. He deserves respect from the fans for giving it a go in crazy conditions, and not abuse or wild celebrations, it’s just time to go separate ways.

Let’s see what the clowns in charge come up with from here.
 
He seems like a decent guy but I’m very glad he’s gone. I have no idea what the plan is in an attacking sense when I watch us play.

Rightly or wrongly, our club and its fans expect and demand a certain style of play which the manager has to convey that they understand. The fans will only except underdog football if it leads to results, simple as that. There’s absolutely nothing fun about watching your team play dour, negative football and lose most weeks.

I sincerely hope the owners follow him out the door sooner rather than later. They just don’t get how to run a football club. They didn’t get it when were challenging under poch and they’ve apparently only just realised today that we are in a relegation battle.
 
billyiddo said:
Heitinga
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Sounds like the perfect fit for us!

www.bbc.co.uk

Ajax to sack manager John Heitinga less than six months after Liverpool exit

Ajax have sacked manager John Heitinga after 15 matches and less than six months after he joined the club from Liverpool.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Ajax have announced they will sack manager John Heitinga less than six months after he joined the club from Liverpool.

Heitinga, 41, won just five of his 11 Eredivisie matches in charge of the Amsterdam club who sit eight points adrift of league leaders Feyenoord.

Ajax have lost all four of their Champions League matches this season, including a 3-0 home defeat to Galatasaray on Wednesday.
 
Rafa87 said:
Hold no ill will toward Frank.

I actually think he’s been put in the worst position of any of our managers if I’m completely honest, crap backing from the board, injuries, just everything all at once to the point that I don’t really know how he was ever going to achieve any success. It then hasn’t helped with the set up that has shown over time that he isn’t the right fit for us.

I think he probably goes to somewhere like Palace now and likely does pretty well for himself.

Simple fact is, we’re in trouble. So he had to go because we need a bounce, a different feeling, a different atmosphere… a different, anything really to try and get ourselves out of trouble and stay in the league.

This club is in a wretched place and mismanaged for a long time, those at the top need to take a long look at themselves.

But thank you to Thomas Frank, it hasn’t worked, that isn’t all on him, but he tried and put his efforts in whilst carrying himself with respect. He deserves respect from the fans for giving it a go in crazy conditions, and not abuse or wild celebrations, it’s just time to go separate ways.

Let’s see what the clowns in charge come up with from here.
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I second this sentiment. It didn't work, the mix wasn't right, and circumstances, etc.

I'll have no doubt whatsoever that he went in to the office and ground every day trying his very best, to the best of his abilities, and for that he shall be credited.

Now that the deed is done; I seem to recall a similar point in either the Europa League-thread or the Ange-thread of last year, where the inevitable sack-question came up. (I do believe it was prior to the decision) I stated that whoever made the call had to get it right, if they were to sack the one man who had achieved what everyone had been yearning for and clamouring for since, well, forever. A major trophy. If they did not, it would be on them and their heads.

Here we are, then.

I'm not holding my breath for anyone of them to come forward and take responsibility for it, saying they were the one. More than likely they will pin it on Levy and Paratici, or someone else who are already gone. Anything to not have to take responsibility themselves, I guess.

A note on Levy, and this probably should be in a different thread altogether, but anyways. What if Levy was the one actually fighting for Postecoglou last summer, who was strong handed by the Lewis-family and the rest of the board to sack him? When things started to go sour, and Lewis and the new regime got a glimpse of the future, they realized they had to get rid of Levy in order to facilitate a spacegoat. To be fair, he was more or less ready-made in the eyes of many.

I have absolutely no foundation for this, and it is most probably just pure poppyrooster. But it is an angle I haven't seen explored too much.
 
Spoonman said:
Inevitable. I feel sorry for the next fall guy already.

More important than the next coach is getting to the bottom of nearly 2 seasons of unprecedented injuries. If that situation doesn't change nothing much else will.
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Whatever people think, if we had placed our attacking players in a formation which allowed them to work together last night we might've been OK. Ditto many games this season. I did not understand why he did not go 4-4-2 once Muani came on!
 
Junior19 said:
I second this sentiment. It didn't work, the mix wasn't right, and circumstances, etc.

I'll have no doubt whatsoever that he went in to the office and ground every day trying his very best, to the best of his abilities, and for that he shall be credited.

Now that the deed is done; I seem to recall a similar point in either the Europa League-thread or the Ange-thread of last year, where the inevitable sack-question came up. (I do believe it was prior to the decision) I stated that whoever made the call had to get it right, if they were to sack the one man who had achieved what everyone had been yearning for and clamouring for since, well, forever. A major trophy. If they did not, it would be on them and their heads.

Here we are, then.

I'm not holding my breath for anyone of them to come forward and take responsibility for it, saying they were the one. More than likely they will pin it on Levy and Paratici, or someone else who are already gone. Anything to not have to take responsibility themselves, I guess.

A note on Levy, and this probably should be in a different thread altogether, but anyways. What if Levy was the one actually fighting for Postecoglou last summer, who was strong handed by the Lewis-family and the rest of the board to sack him? When things started to go sour, and Lewis and the new regime got a glimpse of the future, they realized they had to get rid of Levy in order to facilitate a spacegoat. To be fair, he was more or less ready-made in the eyes of many.

I have absolutely no foundation for this, and it is most probably just pure poppyrooster. But it is an angle I haven't seen explored too much.
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Im not sure anyone was fighting for Ange by that point, other than steadfast tommy on here
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Im noy sure anyone was fighting for Ange by that point, other than steadfast tommy on here
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No, I think you're probably right. I'd like to think so, though. As I hope someone was fighting Franks corner in the boardroom yesterday. Not necessarily because they were right, but a board with no opposing voices is perhaps the most damaging kind of assembly of all.

I'm involved in a few organisations on board levels (not multimillion-size like Spurs, or anything) but I'm never more weary about making the right decision if there are no opposition at all. That makes me wonder which angle have I forgotten, whose voice am I missing here. And sometimes I even take upon me to voice those angles myself, even though they are not my own. Just to get them into the discussion. Once they are there, we can deal with them, and factor them into the decision. May not change anything, but a part of a proper, clean due process.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
The most concerning thing was the results against teams that were also in terrible form......I mean if you're not beating them ....then who are you going to beat?
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At least Dr Tottenham remains consistent these past 2 injury ravaged PL seasons, after we gifted Palace, Ipswich, Moyes and Van Nistelrooy their first wins last year plus helped save Wolves from relegation… I wonder who ENIC’s next fall-guy shall be…

www.tntsports.co.uk

Palace down Spurs for first Prem victory of season

Crystal Palace picked up their first Premier League victory of the season at the ninth attempt, as they beat Spurs 1-0 at Selhurst Park.
www.tntsports.co.uk www.tntsports.co.uk

www.tottenhamhotspur.com

First half double sees Ipswich take the points | Tottenham Hotspur

A disappointing afternoon ended in defeat at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on Sunday as Ipswich Town collected their first Premier League win of the season thanks to a 2-1 victory.
www.tottenhamhotspur.com www.tottenhamhotspur.com

www.bbc.co.uk

Everton 3-2 Tottenham: Everton overpower Spurs to pile pressure on Postecoglou

Everton get their first win under returning manager David Moyes to pile pressure on Tottenham counterpart Ange Postecoglou.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

www.standard.co.uk

Tottenham in crisis as Leicester stage remarkable comeback

Ange Postecoglou under major pressure after fourth consecutive defeat
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk

www.standard.co.uk

Wolves inflict 17th Premier League loss on Spurs as survival in sight

Spurs warm up for crucial Europa League tie in the worst possible way
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
 
Sandman said:
our appointments continue to be re-active and not forward thinking.

Mourinho - he is a winner - we need to win a trophy no matter the style
Not Conte - We get in Nuno because knowone else would come
Conte - We wanted him thought he would bring goals but again he brought a negative style
Ange - Reaction to negative football so we get all out attacking
Frank - Reaction to all out attack and hopefully not all out defense. So a pragmatic coach.

I have no idea who I want to replace Frank. But he had to go. I stopped watching. its not that they are losing, I have seen worse seasons. But I was going into games with no hope a tall due the the lacklustre attacking style we had.
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I think it’s now clear that the decision to sack Ange and replace him with Frank (one they had clearly made months in advance of actually executing it) is one of the most atrocious, miserably terrible decisions the club has ever made.

And I don’t say this because I hate Frank, but because he is so different from the previous guy. I think Frank is a good man and I hope this stint hasn’t ruined his reputation completely.

But I think the decision was abominably bad. And we can say this now knowing how it all panned out. Clearly they tried to make the best decision they thought they could make at the time, and thought they were doing the right thing, but it has been a dreadful waste of a season. And I’ve done everything I can to give them credit, to try and see what they were trying to do. But the buck stops with them.

I think to do what they did, they had to be swept up in the idea that Ange was bad, caused the injuries, was tactically naive, too gung ho. And so they hired the guy they thought would be the pragmatic antidote to everything wrong with the previous guy. I think if they actually blamed last season on the injuries and the prioritisation of the Europa, they might still sack Ange because they want a better long term fit, but they might not appoint Frank.

I truly believe a lot of the issues this season stem from the fact that he is so different. The fact that his playing intensity is so different I believe has led to a high number of injuries again (because players need to get used to the difference, just like they needed to with the previous guy) and his actual playing system was just so different that I don’t think the players ever had confidence in it. I do agree that it looked like he didn’t coach an attack, but I also believe his method can work if the players are fully bought in and feeling comfortable. As it is, I think the players demonstrate zero confidence and comfort at the ends of the pitch. Which meant regardless of xG or anything else, we’d concede and we’d fail to score when we should. The players couldn’t execute when they needed to.

So I say thanks to the geniuses that made this decision and decided to waste our season, and the gift of CL qualification, because we won’t have any Europe next year. It was the football equivalent of shooting ourselves in the face for no reason. I hope that is the nadir that leads us back to Poch, which was another terrible decision where the manager got blamed for things that context suggests other things were actually influencing his outcomes.
 
One other thing on the fact that Frank was so different to what came before, other than training, coaching, playing system and intensity, is motivation.

Again this is not to say Frank cannot motivate. But it is abundantly clear he has a very different persona and style to the previous guy. And the players never lost faith in the previous guy, whose motivation was one of his key strengths. I think when the players were looking for a jolt of inspiration to get them fully buying in to this new way of doing things, I don’t think they ever got it. ‘We will lose games’ is just so different. And I can see what Frank was trying, it’s to be calm, to be balanced, to be a bedrock in the chaos of high level football. But again to me it smacks of believing that so much about the previous guy was wrong that you need the contrasting antidote to him, and that led us down a really stupid path.
 
I suspect that the huge pressure he was facing, made Frank into a worse manager than he should have been. Made him make bad decisions. The midfield last night was a disaster from minute one. I am not an expert (which some on here are to be fair) but it was clear that whatever system Frank was trying just wasn't working. Saudi Sportswashing Machine were dominating but he left the crap system in place. Grrrrrrrrrrr.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
One other thing on the fact that Frank was so different to what came before, other than training, coaching, playing system and intensity, is motivation.

Again this is not to say Frank cannot motivate. But it is abundantly clear he has a very different persona and style to the previous guy. And the players never lost faith in the previous guy, whose motivation was one of his key strengths. I think when the players were looking for a jolt of inspiration to get them fully buying in to this new way of doing things, I don’t think they ever got it. ‘We will lose games’ is just so different. And I can see what Frank was trying, it’s to be calm, to be balanced, to be a bedrock in the chaos of high level football. But again to me it smacks of believing that so much about the previous guy was wrong that you need the contrasting antidote to him, and that led us down a really stupid path.
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I've seen videos of Frank in dressing rooms and he came across as the sort of fella who could motivate a squad. It was a very inclusive sort of method he used - the "we're all in it together - us, the fans, the board and the tea lady". However, it did strike me earlier in the season that I wasn't sure it was going to work here where you have big egos, more pressure and a fractured club. It needed/needs someone to properly lead and unite the club before going down that road and I don't think he was ever strong enough to be able to lay those foundations.

It's probably exemplified by the incident with VdV and Spence when he wanted them to applaud the fans or when he clumsily tried to protect Vicario.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think it’s now clear that the decision to sack Ange and replace him with Frank (one they had clearly made months in advance of actually executing it) is one of the most atrocious, miserably terrible decisions the club has ever made.

And I don’t say this because I hate Frank, but because he is so different from the previous guy. I think Frank is a good man and I hope this stint hasn’t ruined his reputation completely.

But I think the decision was abominably bad. And we can say this now knowing how it all panned out. Clearly they tried to make the best decision they thought they could make at the time, and thought they were doing the right thing, but it has been a dreadful waste of a season. And I’ve done everything I can to give them credit, to try and see what they were trying to do. But the buck stops with them.

I think to do what they did, they had to be swept up in the idea that Ange was bad, caused the injuries, was tactically naive, too gung ho. And so they hired the guy they thought would be the pragmatic antidote to everything wrong with the previous guy. I think if they actually blamed last season on the injuries and the prioritisation of the Europa, they might still sack Ange because they want a better long term fit, but they might not appoint Frank.

I truly believe a lot of the issues this season stem from the fact that he is so different. The fact that his playing intensity is so different I believe has led to a high number of injuries again (because players need to get used to the difference, just like they needed to with the previous guy) and his actual playing system was just so different that I don’t think the players ever had confidence in it. I do agree that it looked like he didn’t coach an attack, but I also believe his method can work if the players are fully bought in and feeling comfortable. As it is, I think the players demonstrate zero confidence and comfort at the ends of the pitch. Which meant regardless of xG or anything else, we’d concede and we’d fail to score when we should. The players couldn’t execute when they needed to.

So I say thanks to the geniuses that made this decision and decided to waste our season, and the gift of CL qualification, because we won’t have any Europe next year. It was the football equivalent of shooting ourselves in the face for no reason. I hope that is the nadir that leads us back to Poch, which was another terrible decision where the manager got blamed for things that context suggests other things were actually influencing his outcomes.
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This is one of the main issues (IMO) with a data-driven club. It needs such a solid structure and history of having evolved from that metric to work as its own entity.

I am not saying data doesn't have a very important place; of course it does! But you need the intangibles of a football club too. And when that embraces winning a trophy, that needs to be noted.

I believe the data last season was viewed in mono-context.

Once it was clear this lot were going to stick to cheapish recruitment and Lange-driven practices, I understand why they chose Frank. But it was a poor fit from the get-go. You're looking to morph a model which works well for certain clubs at certain levels to this craziness! It was doomed to failure from the home defeat to Chelsea IMO...

And yes.
We went a 180 with this guy, not just in style but in approach. Worrying too much about shutting down the other team and not enough time on how we could beat them...

I feel sorry for him, but I will NOT miss him
at all!!!
 
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