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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Raziel said:
I appreciate nuance, I appreciate as a whole, people should be willing to discuss more realistic solutions vs. easy answers but you are missing the beauty of sport and the fact that one off engagements is not the same as business/technical problem over years.

Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson, numerous unseeded tennis players have beaten legends like Federer, Novak, Nadal, Leicester won the PL, according to you they should all have given up on it, been pragmatic, taken their loss.
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You are taking about less than 5% of sporting success of all success in sport..............

They shouldn't have given up because that was their journey, but its certainly not the formula for long term success in any sport. Its also as much about others being off their game than it is anything else, thats why Mike Tyson went on to win another World Title and Leicester were since stinking up the joint in the Championship

If you want a new Tottenham built as I do, with a more sustained spell of success than the odd pot, up there year in year out with a team that reflects the balance sheet, then you are going to have to back the manager that comes in next for longer than 6 months otherwise you yourself will be in a constant state of flux and frustration, despite what any titans of industry manual tell you about life and sport. Thats not a defence of Frank BTW, thats a reality of Spurs as a club in which the data of the last 30 years falls in my favour when knowing how big a job is in the hands of whoever the manager is, Frank or otherwise

You need underdogs and filler to fill sport, nothing says they can't have their day, but if this clubs going to have more than "just its day" then some of our fans need more stomach than the constant idea of instamix success that some seem to believe exists
 
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MartyFunkhouser said:
You are taking about less than 5% of sporting success of all success in sport..............

They shouldn't have given up because that was their journey, but its certainly not the formula for long term success in any sport. Its also as much about others being off their game than it is anything else, thats why Mike Tyson went on to win another World Title and Leicester were since stinking up the joint in the League.

If you want a new Tottenham built as I do, with a more sustained spell of success than the odd pot and up there year in year out with a team that reflects the balance sheet then you are going to have to back the manager that comes in next for longer than 6 months otherwise you yourself will be in a constant state of flux and frustration, despite what any titans of industry manual tell you about life and sport. Thats not a defence of Frank BTW, thats a reality of Spurs as a club in which the data of the last 30 years falls in my favour when knowing how big a job is in the hands of whoever the manager is, Frank or otherwise
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Talking across each other mate

- Yes, you have to plan and in that, 20+ years of data shows we provide the manager enough resources to be top 6
- But, a significant part of the managers job is to make the players believe they can do the 5% of success, that they can be more than the sum of the parts (while actually providing some coaching to create the platform). Listen to ex players, one of the common themes is never give players an excuse for results, they will take it every time.

Does the club need to do better? 100%, do we need to buy/invest more/better? 100%, does any of the long term requirements change the fact that Frank just isn't the guy? no, they are independent things.
 
Raziel said:
I appreciate nuance, I appreciate as a whole, people should be willing to discuss more realistic solutions vs. easy answers but you are missing the beauty of sport and the fact that one off engagements is not the same as business/technical problem over years.

Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson, numerous unseeded tennis players have beaten legends like Federer, Novak, Nadal, Leicester won the PL, according to you they should all have given up on it, been pragmatic, taken their loss.
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Firstly, the PL isn't sport in its truest definition, no professional sport is, it's always business.

Regarding the underdogs, thats not what I'm saying at all, they had those successes because they were pragmatic, they analysed their strengths and the weakness of others, and absolutely hammered both.

Being pragmatic isn't about giving up, its about knowing what you have, and maximising for that.
 
Raziel said:
Talking across each other mate

- Yes, you have to plan and in that, 20+ years of data shows we provide the manager enough resources to be top 6
- But, a significant part of the managers job is to make the players believe they can do the 5% of success, that they can be more than the sum of the parts (while actually providing some coaching to create the platform). Listen to ex players, one of the common themes is never give players an excuse for results, they will take it every time.

Does the club need to do better? 100%, do we need to buy/invest more/better? 100%, does any of the long term requirements change the fact that Frank just isn't the guy? no, they are independent things.
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We have spent more money like a European power house in the last 10 years and have one trophy to show for it. Not sure how many managers and interims that accounts for but its enough to know that can't have all been the wrong manager.

Onto the next.............we continue with what seems to be our route to success............throwing darts
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
We have spent more money like a European power house in the last 10 years and have one trophy to show for it. Not sure how many managers and interims that accounts for but its enough to know that can't have all been the wrong manager.

Onto the next.............we continue with what seems to be our route to success............throwing darts
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Other bad decisions at the club don't make Frank a good decision, it actually probably confirms he's a brick call.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I don't think we will TBH..........For all his failings Richy was getting a decent number of goals, I think Solanke has improved how we play in the last two games and I expect him to pick up some slack, I think he is better than Richy at the link up play.

City I don't expect anything because of who they are, Man United lets see, Saudi Sportswashing Machine are not out of this world can see us beating them and the NLD could be absolutely anything given the nature of the game
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I wish I shared your optimism. The only thing in our favour is we’ve always got a victory in us that will come out of nowhere, beating teams we have no right to beat. But on current form I’m very worried and I don’t back our useless forwards to get us out of trouble. Odobert and Tel have got to be two of the worst signings we’ve made in recent memory along with Werner.
 
Raziel said:
No, @DubaiSpur is 100% right re no one wants to hear how tough a game West Ham, Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley will be for Spurs.

And while pragmatism works in certain businesses, it doesn't work in sports (sports is literally a history of David vs. Goliath stories, both at team and individual levels, it is exactly why we watch it. I'd also argue most startups/entrepreneurs would never succeed if they just looked at the pragmatic truth, humans didn't get to the moon by saying it was impossible. I can't tell you how many projects/initiatives I delivered where people who didn't know better said it couldn't be done.), Frank is self fulfilling his flimflam by telling the team that these lower table dross teams are so tough, that we are going to have a difficult game, that we need to keep it tight, we need to not lose the ball .. no we need to make them worry about us, we need to score 3 and kill games.



He is a problem mate, he may be a decent coach at Bretford level, he like Potter is a disaster at this level. The bigger problem is the club hasn't even realized that yet.
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It’s a nonsense argument that pragmatism is the cornerstone of success. How many teams in recent memory have won either the league or the CL being pragmatic? Leicester and Chelsea at a push? Even Chelsea used to batter teams under conservative managers like Jose and Ancelotti to an extent. Jose loved a 1-0 but his teams also used to go to grounds like Anfield and win 4-1. The vast, vast majority of of the winners of both the competitions I mentioned have been teams who play on the front foot, that take the game to the opposition. Don’t get me wrong those teams could also shut up shop when they had to, but they tried to win the game in 90 minutes and didn’t play to nick a 1-0 and sit on or play for penalties in cup competitions, unless it was a tough away game when they knew they had to be solid.

As you’ve pointed out, the club don’t even realise Frank isn’t suited to the club and it could be too late by the time they come to their senses.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I wish I shared your optimism. The only thing in our favour is we’ve always got a victory in us that will come out of nowhere, beating teams we have no right to beat. But on current form I’m very worried and I don’t back our useless forwards to get us out of trouble. Odobert and Tel have got to be two of the worst signings we’ve made in recent memory along with Werner.
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This isn't a dig at all mate but the reason for optimism is that pessimism rarely plays out like people say anymore than optimism does, otherwise we would all be making a living securing football bets at the weekend.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
This isn't a dig at all mate but the reason for optimism is that pessimism rarely plays out like people say anymore than optimism does, otherwise we would all be making a living securing football bets at the weekend.
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I agree with the logic but it’s not just form, we’ve been declining for years and it’s not a fluke that we’re near the relegation zone. It’s been coming for more than a year. I really don’t rate our squad, particularly the forwards and the creative side as I’ve said hundreds of times. I don’t see who is going to drag us out of trouble. We don’t have a Klinsmann or a Ginola to bail us out like we did in the 90s.
 
The reality now is we’re heading into four very tough games, and 17th are 3 points behind us. West Ham in 18th are 8 behind us.

I cannot see us suddenly winning in the next four, but we absolutely cannot afford to go through them pointless. West Ham and Forest aren’t going to win lots, but they are picking up points, West Ham with two on the bounce reeling us right in.

We are absolutely in a relegation battle currently and it isn’t enough to do the old “Spurs will have enough”.
 
Rafa87 said:
The reality now is we’re heading into four very tough games, and 17th are 3 points behind us. West Ham in 18th are 8 behind us.

I cannot see us suddenly winning in the next four, but we absolutely cannot afford to go through them pointless. West Ham and Forest aren’t going to win lots, but they are picking up points, West Ham with two on the bounce reeling us right in.

We are absolutely in a relegation battle currently and it isn’t enough to do the old “Spurs will have enough”.
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I said this several weeks ago and many on here laughed. We can’t even beat the bottom 4 teams, we’re in huge trouble.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Didn’t hear it in the stadium. He was supported as long as results were decent. Poor results and brick football are a bad combination.
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I was at the Bmuff home game and around me there certainly was that feeling already

I completely accept that is a tiny area and small sample size, but there was certainly mixed support from the start.
 
Mcfee said:
Not a disastrous performance but still needed a 90th minute goal to rescue a draw against relegation fodder, one of the worst 2 teams in the division. Yes I suppose we should celebrate that to be fair. Carry on Thomas, you’re doing a great job.
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That's just the expectation now. Done believe the squad is so bad that a draw against Burnley should be celebrated. A good performance is one thing, that should be expected against Burnley, but we should also expect a win too.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I’m not having the last part of your post. Maybe online, you have some fans who didn’t give him a fair crack (maybe). Generally, Frank was widely praised early on and fans didn’t start to turn until long after results and performances turned unacceptable.

Even now, most fans say they believe Frank is a good coach and a decent man. He’s just the wrong man for us. We’re saying that despite being 14th in the league in late January. The wider mess isn’t Frank’s fault but, even allowing for those circumstances, where we are under him is utterly unacceptable.
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Apparently that means you hate TF and we're never on board with him, and have your own agenda to not liking what you see.

I totally agree with what you say. Ty he crazy thing is, our performances got better with more injuries. We no longer "what if" one missed chance like we deserved it - it's we had lots of chances... What a magical two games
 
Odobert and Tel have got to be two of the worst signings we’ve made in recent memory along with Werner.
I think Odobert is improving, but Tel is not exactly Defoe and Werner - Jesus. We desperately need players with the finishing ability of Semenyo but can't seem to buy top attackers.....
 
afsoc4life said:
The squad is not so bad to be this low in the league even with the injuries in creative midfield. Look at what Carrick has done to Utd.
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Connected to all 3 of their goal scorers at various times weren't we...... wonder where we would be with just one of the two attackers instead of Tel/Odobert
 
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