*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa FC ***

[johnola]

He really did.

He even built us a functional squad that fit well together. Compared to some of the best modern managers tactically I don't think Redknapp stacks up. But the impression of him as just a wheeler dealer signing whoever is available to tell players to run around a bit I think is both harsh and wrong.

yeah he knew a good player when he saw one- Bale Rafa and Modric would all get into my five a side team although Rafa might have to take a turn in goal.

 

[Nexus1967]

I'm confused - you mentioned Ronald Koeman and Roberto Martinez in a list of top managers...

Out of that list, I'd say only Ancellotti is truly top bracket. Tuchel and Pochettino have shown themselves to be good (although have had their failures). Deschamps is a very good international manager, but his record as a club manager is mixed and he showed a tendency to fall out with club's hiearachies.

I get where you are coming from about top managers but the point I was trying to make is that usually after a world cup a lot of managers become available. I think that is why Man U have appointed an interim manager until the end of the season. They obviously have their eye on someone and any of those leaving after the world cup they wont have to pay out a massive compensation fee to a club opposed for example of trying to pry someone away from a current position mid season. This is all hypothetical on my part. Who knows Pep Guardiola may be available at the end of the season.

 

[Raziel]

I get where you are coming from about top managers but the point I was trying to make is that usually after a world cup a lot of managers become available. I think that is why Man U have appointed an interim manager until the end of the season. They obviously have their eye on someone and any of those leaving after the world cup they wont have to pay out a massive compensation fee to a club opposed for example of trying to pry someone away from a current position mid season. This is all hypothetical on my part. Who knows Pep Guardiola may be available at the end of the season.

United want Tuchel

They also just came of a disaster with forcing Amorim to come early, not giving him the tools and burning his tenure before it started.

 

[glasgowspur]

He really did.

He even built us a functional squad that fit well together. Compared to some of the best modern managers tactically I don't think Redknapp stacks up. But the impression of him as just a wheeler dealer signing whoever is available to tell players to run around a bit I think is both harsh and wrong.

One thing Harry doesn't get much credit for imho is that he created chemistry within a squad.
It wasn't a siege mentality, he built a good unit that played for each other.

 

[Muttley]

One thing Harry doesn't get much credit for imho is that he created chemistry within a squad.
It wasn't a siege mentality, he built a good unit that played for each other.

I think it really was 2 cultures though. If you were in the Harry club then life was good. If you were one of his stockpiled players that never got a sniff then life wasn't so good. Harry and Levy were pretty reckless with squad management. Harry joined at the time the PL quotas were changing including the 25 man squads and homegrown rules etc. They didn't manage this part well at all. We were in total "sell to buy" mode across multiple years as we desperately tried to bring in more quality.

Harry was definitely great with those 11 players in the starting shirts and the 3 subs that got on the pitch. Kranjcar and Defoe were great examples of Harry players who weren't necessarily always getting starting shirts.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think it really was 2 cultures though. If you were in the Harry club then life was good. If you were one of his stockpiled players that never got a sniff then life wasn't so good. Harry and Levy were pretty reckless with squad management. Harry joined at the time the PL quotas were changing including the 25 man squads and homegrown rules etc. They didn't manage this part well at all. We were in total "sell to buy" mode across multiple years as we desperately tried to bring in more quality.

Harry was definitely great with those 11 players in the starting shirts and the 3 subs that got on the pitch. Kranjcar and Defoe were great examples of Harry players who weren't necessarily always getting starting shirts.

Disagree…. it was a great, deep squad and he didn’t spend that much either.

 

[Muttley]

Disagree…. it was a great, deep squad and he didn’t spend that much either.

I used to read the accounts in those days. What I can tell you is that Harry took our wage bill up round 35-40% permanently. So much of that salary was being spent on players that had absolutely no first team impact. We ended up loaning over 25s to try and get some of it covered because we couldn't find buyers. Harry would have had a much healthier transfer budget if him and Levy hadn't have wasted so much on salaries of unwanteds. There were so many data points in that period why Levy wasn't so good at running football operations. I didn't expect Harry to be. He was more of a tracksuit coach, not an all-in manager. He did a lot of financial damage at other clubs like QPR, Birmingham and Pompey and it took a decent effort to clean our squad up when he left. It didn't really happen until Poch came along to be fair.

I'd have loved to have seen Harry in a modern setup like we have now. Someone like Lange who can really analyse what types of players Harry needs and building him a decent squad. Harry in a world where we actually have the new stadium and a new cashflow model could have worked well.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I used to read the accounts in those days. What I can tell you is that Harry took our wage bill up round 35-40% permanently. So much of that salary was being spent on players that had absolutely no first team impact. We ended up loaning over 25s to try and get some of it covered because we couldn't find buyers. Harry would have had a much healthier transfer budget if him and Levy hadn't have wasted so much on salaries of unwanteds. There were so many data points in that period why Levy wasn't so good at running football operations. I didn't expect Harry to be. He was more of a tracksuit coach, not an all-in manager. He did a lot of financial damage at other clubs like QPR, Birmingham and Pompey and it took a decent effort to clean our squad up when he left. It didn't really happen until Poch came along to be fair.

I'd have loved to have seen Harry in a modern setup like we have now. Someone like Lange who can really analyse what types of players Harry needs and building him a decent squad. Harry in a world where we actually have the new stadium and a new cashflow model could have worked well.

35-40% on our wage bill. That's nothing and actually incredible value for where he took us. Finishes of 4th, 5th, 4th, our first ever qualification to the Champions league (and really should've been 2 out of 3 seasons in there). Our wage bill was terribly low prior to Redknapp arriving. He built us a squad that could finish in the top four places of the league. Only 35-40% added to the wage bill to do that is a fantastic achievement and great value for money, I bet our wage bill still wasn't anywhere close to the wage bills of the 4 or 5 highest spenders when Harry left as well, that further proves how he over achieved I'd say.

I'm not actually sure what some fans expect from managers.... The teams who spend the most money on wages and have the biggest squads tend to be the ones at the top of the table. Harry did a great job to build us a big squad and did it without spending a great deal of money or actually pushing our wage bill up anywhere close to the big boys. Because Harry is an old east end boy who doesn't look and sound like a sexy foreign coach people cannot see past this and try to belittle the great job he did for us. Only two managers at Spurs in the last 30 odd years have built really good teams - Poch and Harry. Of the two of them I'd say Harry was the one that built the better squad and he did it with a mixture of younger and older players (as is the right way to build a squad with a chance of winning things).

As to your comment about Harry doing financial damage to other clubs I disagree completely, Harry didn't do financial damage to QPR, Birmingham and Portsmouth, their owners did. Every single manager, at every single club will spend what their board allow them to spend and they will constantly push to spend more and rightly so, after all the manager's job depends completely on results.

 

[Muttley]

35-40% on our wage bill. That's nothing and actually incredible value for where he took us. Finishes of 4th, 5th, 4th, our first ever qualification to the Champions league (and really should've been 2 out of 3 seasons in there). Our wage bill was terribly low prior to Redknapp arriving. He built us a squad that could finish in the top four places of the league. Only 35-40% added to the wage bill to do that is a fantastic achievement and great value for money, I bet our wage bill still wasn't anywhere close to the wage bills of the 4 or 5 highest spenders when Harry left as well, that further proves how he over achieved I'd say.

I'm not actually sure what some fans expect from managers.... The teams who spend the most money on wages and have the biggest squads tend to be the ones at the top of the table. Harry did a great job to build us a big squad and did it without spending a great deal of money or actually pushing our wage bill up anywhere close to the big boys. Because Harry is an old east end boy who doesn't look and sound like a sexy foreign coach people cannot see past this and try to belittle the great job he did for us. Only two managers at Spurs in the last 30 odd years have built really good teams - Poch and Harry. Of the two of them I'd say Harry was the one that built the better squad and he did it with a mixture of younger and older players (as is the right way to build a squad with a chance of winning things).

As to your comment about Harry doing financial damage to other clubs I disagree completely, Harry didn't do financial damage to QPR, Birmingham and Portsmouth, their owners did. Every single manager, at every single club will spend what their board allow them to spend and they will constantly push to spend more and rightly so, after all the manager's job depends completely on results.

Nah, it was relevant because we only got CL one season. I remember listing the 35 squad players at at the start of every summer. We calculated the salaries of unwanted players including the chunk of the fiscal year when all the loanees returned. It was the equivalent of about an extra £30-40m transfer budget if we could have cleaned out the unwanted and got the wage bill down. It sounds nothin now but it was relevant in that time period.

I won't completely disagree with your last paragraph. Of course the owners were accountable. That was my point about Levy being an absolute numpty in football operations have absolutely no control over the squad numbers and escalating salaries. Harry was accountable though. He was in those conversations and should have been mature enough to make team decisions. Instead he dug his heals in and sold them on a promise he never delivered. He left those clubs in a tough situation.

As for what I expect from managers. That one is easy. We've had several come through the interview process and we set out the terms of what it means to be a Spurs manager. We don't pretend to be billionaires who throw our money around. We set the expectation on our operating model based on cashflow and we've always said that we should have resale value on players. Then we have idiots like Jose and Conte who nod their heads through the interview process and then go rogue when they're in the job. Harry wasn't that dissimilar. He had many pops at Levy when that microphone was put under his nose once he'd got his feet under the table. Some of it was cringeworthy.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nah, it was relevant because we only got CL one season. I remember listing the 35 squad players at at the start of every summer. We calculated the salaries of unwanted players including the chunk of the fiscal year when all the loanees returned. It was the equivalent of about an extra £30-40m transfer budget if we could have cleaned out the unwanted and got the wage bill down. It sounds nothin now but it was relevant in that time period.

I won't completely disagree with your last paragraph. Of course the owners were accountable. That was my point about Levy being an absolute numpty in football operations have absolutely no control over the squad numbers and escalating salaries. Harry was accountable though. He was in those conversations and should have been mature enough to make team decisions. Instead he dug his heals in and sold them on a promise he never delivered. He left those clubs in a tough situation.

As for what I expect from managers. That one is easy. We've had several come through the interview process and we set out the terms of what it means to be a Spurs manager. We don't pretend to be billionaires who throw our money around. We set the expectation on our operating model based on cashflow and we've always said that we should have resale value on players. Then we have idiots like Jose and Conte who nod their heads through the interview process and then go rogue when they're in the job. Harry wasn't that dissimilar. He had many pops at Levy when that microphone was put under his nose once he'd got his feet under the table. Some of it was cringeworthy.

So what? £30-£40 million, that's one good player and that assumes the transfer is a success. Our single season in the Champions league was likely worth considerably more than that £30-£40 million. If you want to do well then you need a deep squad. Harry knew this and built us one.

No idea what your second paragraph is saying? Harry was indeed accountable, accountable for building us a squad good enough to finish top 4 in two seasons out of 3 and with an average finishing position of 4.33 without spending a great deal or getting our wage bill anywhere near as high as the pre-existing top 4 clubs in the country. The decisions that Redknapp made are the same decisions every manager at every club makes and always has made. I want the biggest and best squad that I can have and will spend every bit of money you make available to achieve that and constantly ask for more to try to get even better. I find it strange that you don't think this is just normal?

You're completely making something up in your last paragraph to suit a narrative. You have no idea what parameters the managers coming into Spurs are asked to operate under. I suspect all are told they will have a certain net transfer budget and a certain wage budget and that will increase/decrease depending on how we perform and what competitions we end up in and how far we go in them and that's it. If you think that perennial winners like Jose and Conte would accept a managerial job if told that they need to think about things like resale value of players then I'd say you're deluded. I think far more likely than them suddenly going rogue in the job is that they're sold a dream of big transfer budgets and given assurances that the club will bring in their first choice targets only for the goalposts to change once they were in the door and had us in the European positions.

*Edit - just went and checked transfermarkt and Redknapp only spent a total of only 49 million euros net across 7 transfer windows at Spurs. An average net spend of just 7 million euros per window. That only reinforces what an incredible job he did. I'm not sure anyone else could've got such a fantastic return out of such little investment.