***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur Football Club vs AFC Bournemouth***

[afsoc4life]

Frank should be let go if this run continues at the end of January. We keep talking as if we have the worst squad in the league but we don't. The challenge is then who to replace him with... He is looking out of his depth in my own opinion.

 

[veryoldspur]

Had enough now, he has to go

 

[Benny_Lad]

Frank should be let go if this run continues at the end of January. We keep talking as if we have the worst squad in the league but we don't. The challenge is then who to replace him with... He is looking out of his depth in my own opinion.

A question.

What do you think another manager could have done differently last night?

The only thing for me tactically was get Danso on for Spence and move VDV to LB. That would have widened our attack and asked Bournemouth a couple of different questions.

I think everyone else pretty much played with their maximum effort and at ‘their level’ ability wise.

We saw individual mistakes for all 3 goals. I’m certain Frank is covering off closing down and shaping attackers on to their weaker foot, so it must be player execution.

The attackers fumble A LOT. Plenty of good openings are either messed up or worked back to the defence. That is down to ability and execution imo.

 

[afsoc4life]

A question.

What do you think another manager could have done differently last night?

The only thing for me tactically was get Danso on for Spence and move VDV to LB. That would have widened our attack and asked Bournemouth a couple of different questions.

I think everyone else pretty much played with their maximum effort and at ‘their level’ ability wise.

We saw individual mistakes for all 3 goals. I’m certain Frank is covering off closing down and shaping attackers on to their weaker foot, so it must be player execution.

The attackers fumble A LOT. Plenty of good openings are either messed up or worked back to the defence. That is down to ability and execution imo.

Another manager could have won the game. I am judging Frank based on his results and what I see on the pitch. I am not convinced.

I am willing to wait and see if he makes a run in the cups and get a trophy.

 

[kb 1984]

Another manager could have won the game. I am judging Frank based on his results and what I see on the pitch. I am not convinced.

I am willing to wait and see if he makes a run in the cups and get a trophy.

winning a trophy does not guarantee you keep your job these days

 

[NLS]

The board have got a very difficult decision to make about Frank which, if the past is anything to go by, they will probably get wrong....

If we weren't at the start of a transfer window I would keep Frank until the end of the season - unless/until the situation deteriorated even further....

But how can we now spend hundreds of millions on players for a manager who just doesn't seem to be the right fit for the club...

I would buy players now to suit the next manager ( if he can be identified), sack Thomas and bring in an interim to play the 'Tottenham' way for the rest of the season... Harry Redknapp was mentioned during the commentary as he was in the crowd and if he still has the energy for it i would give him a go....

Not ideal but nor is the alternative....

What a mess..

 

[markysimmo]

Going well isn't it !!

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[Mikey10]

Another manager could have won the game.

You haven’t specified how. The question was, what should he have done differently to ensure that happening?

But how can we now spend hundreds of millions on players

I would buy players now to suit the next manager ( if he can be identified), sack Thomas and bring in an interim to play the 'Tottenham' way

Firstly, I’ll have a case of whatever you’re drinking, please, if you think we’re spending hundreds of millions on players anytime soon!

Secondly, we had a manager who apparently played ‘the Tottenham way’ last season. We finished 17th.

 

[braineclipse]

IDK, if missing players were an excuse last season they should be this season too.

That excuse only stretches so far though and managers need to find solutions- it's what they are paid to do.

Both those arguments were made plenty last season.

Another that was made was that a competent pragmatic and tactically flexible manager would be able to find those solutions.

We imo have a significantly stronger squad this season, particularly comparing the first half of last season to the first half of this season. The injury problems have been significant for sure this season, but not worse overall than they were last season.

Imo the performances have been better in the last two games, low bar to compare that to our worst, but still. Something to build on there so that's a positive. One concern is that while we have two games against teams currently clearly in relegation spots coming up the fixture list then becomes significantly tougher. If we're unable to build on the positives from the last two games with both performances and results our run of poor results is quite likely to extend for quite a while.

 

[Nexus1967]

I know I probably sound like a broken record but until we change our recruitment team/policies I dont think it matters who coaches us. Our summer window was awful. Loan signings made permanent , Japanese defender who has been injured since he signed and lets not forget the Morgan Gibbs White farce. That goes to pieces then we are supposedly in talks with Eze, when the whole footballing world knows is going to Arsenal.
Who do we sign ? Xavi Simons for big money. As much as it pains me to say it but we need to stick with a manager and go out and buy quality players as our neighbours found out. The gooners I work with said it wasn't until they got rid of Edu and started splashing big money on top players that it really changed. But how many years and transfer windows has that taken . Then there is the competition for all the top players. A Liverpool supporter at work said the best thing for them last summer was all the players they signed actually wanted to go to them.
Just to add, isn't Edu at Forest now and look at their situation. And I know we cant just go out and spend £100 million on a player we need to at least be competitive in the transfer market against the other big hitters as we are supposedly in the top 10 of richest clubs in the world

 

[billyiddo]

Both those arguments were made plenty last season.

Another that was made was that a competent pragmatic and tactically flexible manager would be able to find those solutions.

We imo have a significantly stronger squad this season, particularly comparing the first half of last season to the first half of this season. The injury problems have been significant for sure this season, but not worse overall than they were last season.

Imo the performances have been better in the last two games, low bar to compare that to our worst, but still. Something to build on there so that's a positive. One concern is that while we have two games against teams currently clearly in relegation spots coming up the fixture list then becomes significantly tougher. If we're unable to build on the positives from the last two games with both performances and results our run of poor results is quite likely to extend for quite a while.

I don't see a significantly stronger squad - i didn't want us to sign Tel or Kudus as I think both are not at the required level and said as much at the time. Xavi quite clearly is way off of the required level to impact PL games, but he cost a lot of money so people will use that to say he's better than what we can plainly see. Palinha a decent signing but limited - he was a solid player for a mid table PL club, that's it. There's an extra couple of bodies but ultimately the needle has not shifted wrt quality.

 

[stratnumberone]

The incidents with the players don’t bother me too much. I was there last season when there was a slanging match between Ange and the fans, which I found far more concerning that this. I believe that VDV truly cares about the situation, albeit his incident was a little unsavoury. The Porro and Palhinha incidents looked to me like two players that were ‘happy’ to try to talk to the fans face to face. I’m not sure that this is a particularly great idea but again it does show they care. Porro’s role in particular looked worse due to all the security staff surrounding him and trying to prevent him from approaching the touch line.

Overall last night I think we were unlucky to lose. In much the same way as AFCB has been unlucky in many of their recent winless streak. I don’t particularly consider this to be a ‘Dr Tottenham’ moment. In another game I think we have two penalties; in most games we have at least one penalty. It’s like a lot of things are going firmly against us at the moment (and that’s before we even discuss yet more injuries) but overall I think that our performances have improved and that’s before has to be considered a step in the right direction. It’s a bit of a cliche in football, but generally improved performances eventually lead to improved results.

Overall, I’ve decided to focus on the positives by creating a new mantra for myself:

Tottenham Hotspur - better than the England cricket team.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't see a significantly stronger squad - i didn't want us to sign Tel or Kudus as I think both are not at the required level and said as much at the time. Xavi quite clearly is way off of the required level to impact PL games, but he cost a lot of money so people will use that to say he's better than what we can plainly see. Palinha a decent signing but limited - he was a solid player for a mid table PL club, that's it. There's an extra couple of bodies but ultimately the needle has not shifted wrt quality.

Remember we had Frasier Forster, Spence, Gray and Bergvall still very early in their settling in periods, no Danso then as well as Kinsky, Tel, Simons, Kudus, Palhinha.

It may be that these players aren't at the required level and won't get there. But compared to not having them and what we had in the first half of last season I think they're better.

We haven't been able to improve our starting 11 as much as we would have liked. Simons struggling to make an impact, Palhinha being who he is. Only Kudus really. But the squad imo is significantly stronger.

 

[billyiddo]

Remember we had Frasier Forster, Spence, Gray and Bergvall still very early in their settling in periods, no Danso then as well as Kinsky, Tel, Simons, Kudus, Palhinha.

It may be that these players aren't at the required level and won't get there. But compared to not having them and what we had in the first half of last season I think they're better.

We haven't been able to improve our starting 11 as much as we would have liked. Simons struggling to make an impact, Palhinha being who he is. Only Kudus really. But the squad imo is significantly stronger.

You're using 6 players that were here last season in your argument as to how the squad is stronger

 

[braineclipse]

You're using 6 players that were here last season in your argument as to how the squad is stronger

Like I said, particularly comparing the first halves of the seasons.

Some of those players arrived in January, I'm assuming we'll sign a player or two this January. And even though we can say in a year that they "were here last season" when looking at our squad for the first half of this season that's hardly relevant.

Some of those players (Spence, Gray, Bergvall) were much closer to ready made PL players this season than they were last season. Players settling in and developing is part of what makes the squad stronger. If Frank now does the job of helping Simons settle in he'll be a stronger player in the squad next season than he has been so far this season.

 

[Muttley]

Like I said, particularly comparing the first halves of the seasons.

Some of those players arrived in January, I'm assuming we'll sign a player or two this January. And even though we can say in a year that they "were here last season" when looking at our squad for the first half of this season that's hardly relevant.

Some of those players (Spence, Gray, Bergvall) were much closer to ready made PL players this season than they were last season. Players settling in and developing is part of what makes the squad stronger. If Frank now does the job of helping Simons settle in he'll be a stronger player in the squad next season than he has been so far this season.

We play 11 players and have 5 subs. Some of those subs only get a few mins. There is no way Frank's 16 first choices are not majorly impacted by injuries. These players would have been on the pitch at some point last night - Udogie (starter), Madds (starter), Kulu (starter), Solanke (starter), Kudus (starter), Sarr (sub). So 5 starters and one sub, with the bench obviously being much stronger as last night's starters strengthened the bench.

The most important consideration is that he has half of his BEST team missing. If he just had a few squad players in the 15-25 squad positions then the impact would be far, far less. He hasn't. He's lost the difference makers.

 

[braineclipse]

We play 11 players and have 5 subs. Some of those subs only get a few mins. There is no way Frank's 16 first choices are not majorly impacted by injuries. These players would have been on the pitch at some point last night - Udogie (starter), Madds (starter), Kulu (starter), Solanke (starter), Kudus (starter), Sarr (sub). So 5 starters and one sub, with the bench obviously being much stronger as last night's starters strengthened the bench.

The most important consideration is that he has half of his BEST team missing. If he just had a few squad players in the 15-25 squad positions then the impact would be far, far less. He hasn't. He's lost the difference makers.

The original conversation was about arguments made this season and last. And a comparison between last season and this season.

I made the point that the squad is stronger. The starting 11 less so.

For sure there have been important injury problems that have impacted us negatively. Compared to last season I still think last season was on the whole worse on the injury front. While also having a weaker squad to deal with those injuries last season.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Going well isn't it !!

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I find that incredibly sad. It's hard to make a judgement without knowing what was said but I've no doubt that VdV and Porro care as much about winning as any fan and they are incredibly frustrated and taking the brunt of fan frustration every week.

This is 6 or 7 incidents over the last two seasons of fans clashing with players/manager. That's not normal - the level of toxicity is out of control and I don't see anyone in the club, and I'm looking at the hierarchy, stepping up to take responsibility and fix it.

 

[Muttley]

The original conversation was about arguments made this season and last. And a comparison between last season and this season.

I made the point that the squad is stronger. The starting 11 less so.

For sure there have been important injury problems that have impacted us negatively. Compared to last season I still think last season was on the whole worse on the injury front. While also having a weaker squad to deal with those injuries last season.

I agree that this time last year the injury situation was the worst I've ever known as a Spurs fan.

The problem is that Ange was getting a total forgiveness from so many fans because of the injuries and fatigue. Because Frank has a couple more "squad fillers", he is getting absolutely none.

Here is my first team

Vic
Porro, Romero, VDV, Udogie
Palhinha, Gray
Kudus, Madds, Kulu
Solanke

Across the 90 mins, I would have Kinsky, Danso, Spence, Sarr, Bergval, Xavi, Tel, Odobert, Richi, Muani to change things. 3 or 4 of them are game changers.

I really do hope that fans can see that Frank is completely hamstrung with current choices. Whether it is as bad as Ange had it is debatable, but they do have to admit that it is a MAJOR reason why we find ourselves where we are.

It's the double standard that hits me the most.

 

[billyiddo]

The original conversation was about arguments made this season and last. And a comparison between last season and this season.

I made the point that the squad is stronger. The starting 11 less so.

For sure there have been important injury problems that have impacted us negatively. Compared to last season I still think last season was on the whole worse on the injury front. While also having a weaker squad to deal with those injuries last season.

Tbf my point was that injury excuses only go so far and that managers are paid to find solutions - not who had it worse, that's not something I'm interested in debating as there are too many variables - managers first season vs 2nd season, CL fixtures vs EL fixtures, injuries to players in different positions and so on.

Injuries will not excuse us finishing in the bottom 6, Frank will need to find solutions one way or the other - we can't just throw up our hands and accept defeat after defeat.