Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Bishop]

I wouldn't be against him, but the chances are we will be back hearing about "The Tottenham way" in 6 months.

We also need 4/5 players to play his way, so could see a slow start whilst we do this.

He's the best choice If we stay domestic, I'm just not convinced he would work style wise at Spurs.

Might help us with Wharton though.

I hate 3 at the back so for that reason alone I don't want him

However if he does get the job the squad needs a bit of an overhaul. We arguably have 3 WBs that could work, still to add the 4th obviously. The CM options don't work, so that would need to be completely altered. The wide players and attackers probably needs changing in terms of profile as well.

Personally I think it's a bad move because so few managers can 3 at the back well that if we invest in a squad to suit him, if it doesn't work we're again stuck with a squad that doesn't suit the majority of managers.

 

[Bishop]

As long as we win games, I don't really care how we do it, I'm not paying £1000s for a season ticket anymore, so I accept my pov holds less weight that those that do who have to sit through it.

Liverpool won titles playing counter attacking football under Klopp, if it wasn't for city and their cheating he would have had a few more.

I seem to recall people did start to turn on him and his style quite early on in the second season and it went down hill quickly and then his meltdown happened when we were around 5th/6th? So wasn't exactly a disaster season.

I think we will have a free run at Glasner if the club did want him.

I don't know about a free run. United suits him more because they already have a 3/5 at the back coach and have been building a squad to suit that. It might well make more sense for him to go there assuming the role was available.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It will always come down to results eventually, because that is the one metric that you can't argue with.

Ultimately that's true.

I think you can argue against results BUT there's little point these days.

 

[lurker of old]

The manager is being honest and some of you seem to forget that Harry Kane and Sonny papered over a heck of a lot of cracks. Who are are goal scorers? Who are our forwards? Richie is lovely guy but hardly a top striker. What fit creative players can we field? We have a team of mid table players and young wannabes. So enjoy it for what it is and try not to get caught up in a sense of entitlement, which seems to be one of the curses of the age.

 

[harr1984]

As long as we win games, I don't really care how we do it, I'm not paying £1000s for a season ticket anymore, so I accept my pov holds less weight that those that do who have to sit through it.

Liverpool won titles playing counter attacking football under Klopp, if it wasn't for city and their cheating he would have had a few more.

I seem to recall people did start to turn on him and his style quite early on in the second season and it went down hill quickly and then his meltdown happened when we were around 5th/6th? So wasn't exactly a disaster season.

I think we will have a free run at Glasner if the club did want him.

There will always be a portion whinging, I don't recall there being a particular big grumbling at the stadium but if that's a poor example fair enough.

We could have got Glasner in the summer but went for Frank which I disagreed with but they must have their reasons - so bar a disaster might aswell see it out this season and see how everyone at the club feels (and fans of course)....

 

[Robspur12]

Ok, so that’s fair and that’s your view, and I can be open to other views.

Let me suggest a third option, which of course you don’t have to agree with.

For the EL we were favourites to win, so we must have been at some level a half decent side to be deemed as such. However to me, the nuance of it is that with no other Chanpions league teams in there we could be favourites because the level of competition we had in the competition was actually much closer to our general level. Simply out of you had, I don’t know, a few more Inters, a Milan, perhaps a Chelsea or just someone of this level, I don’t think we would have been favourites. I think our reputation if you like is as being ‘nearly men’ and as such people don’t expect us to win things so the fact we were favourites felt more to me as a “even Spurs should be winning this”.

I think it was a view built on the competition we faced. I don’t think we had an easy ‘just turn up’ type run, we can only beat who is in front of us, and look, any competition you still have to get it over the line, so we absolutely deserved it. I just think I agree with you in the sense we were favourites, but I think that’s because the competition had lots of teams who were all in our ball park of generally decent but not fantastic squads. This is why I think we’ve managed to win it, but still not have a fantastic squad.

By all means, feel free to not agree, it’s a forum after all, I’m not trying to be narky, I just think there’s more nuance than the two options you suggest I.e favourites, so good squad, or massive achievement.

I think we’re an average squad, who played a Europa League campaign, against many other fairly average squads, but actually winning it with our trophy history, for us still makes it a massive achievement in our terms.

As well as probably being the best team in the competition, we had also given up competing in our domestic league at the business end of the EL. That scenario is not acceptable this season. We're expected to be competitive in both the League and CL

 

[DeanoAustin]

There will always be a portion whinging, I don't recall there being a particular big grumbling at the stadium but if that's a poor example fair enough.

We could have got Glasner in the summer but went for Frank which I disagreed with but they must have their reasons - so bar a disaster might aswell see it out this season and see how everyone at the club feels (and fans of course)....

Think if we lose the next two or only take a point, we’re near that disaster scenario looking at the February fixtures. I’d like to see Frank get the season but not at the risk of a relegation fight. Take any less than 2 points from these two games and I’d probably advocate for pulling the trigger.

 

[Legohamster]

I don't know about a free run. United suits him more because they already have a 3/5 at the back coach and have been building a squad to suit that. It might well make more sense for him to go there assuming the role was available.

I can't see United getting rid of their manager now after they seem to be turning the corner slightly.

They stuck with him when it was complete brick

 

[Legohamster]

There will always be a portion whinging, I don't recall there being a particular big grumbling at the stadium but if that's a poor example fair enough.

We could have got Glasner in the summer but went for Frank which I disagreed with but they must have their reasons - so bar a disaster might aswell see it out this season and see how everyone at the club feels (and fans of course)....

At what point do we accept we are not going to qualify for Europe through the league (not suggesting it's now) I'm of the thought if the league seasons done and the replacements available do it then, more time for the incoming to assess the squad.

 

[harr1984]

Think if we lose the next two or only take a point, we’re near that disaster scenario looking at the February fixtures. I’d like to see Frank get the season but not at the risk of a relegation fight. Take any less than 2 points from these two games and I’d probably advocate for pulling the trigger.

Fair enough Deano, we all have our thresholds and to be fair I have no idea when is fair - Despite my own concerns about Frank I'm keen to give the manager the season unless is completely necessary because this constant managerial roundabout needs to stop. But appreciate if he's the wrong man he's the wrong man, but I'm not convinced we can answer that for sure in January....

 

[Legohamster]

I hate 3 at the back so for that reason alone I don't want him

However if he does get the job the squad needs a bit of an overhaul. We arguably have 3 WBs that could work, still to add the 4th obviously. The CM options don't work, so that would need to be completely altered. The wide players and attackers probably needs changing in terms of profile as well.

Personally I think it's a bad move because so few managers can 3 at the back well that if we invest in a squad to suit him, if it doesn't work we're again stuck with a squad that doesn't suit the majority of managers.

The areas you list need upgrading anyway, is that much of a change?

That's the rub, we need to find a manager and invest a couple of seasons in his style/tactics or this cycle of ill fitting squads never ends.

 

[Legohamster]

Think if we lose the next two or only take a point, we’re near that disaster scenario looking at the February fixtures. I’d like to see Frank get the season but not at the risk of a relegation fight. Take any less than 2 points from these two games and I’d probably advocate for pulling the trigger.

I believe if we lose today, he's gone.

It's going to be so toxic if that happens.

 

[fernadez]

I believe if we lose today, he's gone.

It's going to be so toxic if that happens.

Don't see it myself, think we're a distance from those sort of conversations.

 

[harr1984]

At what point do we accept we are not going to qualify for Europe through the league (not suggesting it's now) I'm of the thought if the league seasons done and the replacements available do it then, more time for the incoming to assess the squad.

I think slightly differently, but not trying to suggest my thought process is any more correct than yours:

1) A lot of managers won't want to leave mid season so it might be a case of having to wait for whoever we want anyway

2) I think giving a manger a whole season is a fairer amount of time

3) Kind of continuation of 2), a lot of 'middle' clubs are now stronger, and those ones not in Europe are challenging more. We are likely out of Europe February/March time. Then Frank will have far more full weeks to work with the squad and also see if we can get closer/overtake those middling clubs who are performing better without any European football as we will then be in the same position. A decent couple of months form towards end of the season, a season of no European football and more work with the squad and things could really take shape, who knows

This season is likely a write off anyway, if things get too toxic or genuine relegation concerns come into play then of course it's a different conversation. But I don't see the need to think about pushing the button yet personally....

 

[DeanoAustin]

Fair enough Deano, we all have our thresholds and to be fair I have no idea when is fair - Despite my own concerns about Frank I'm keen to give the manager the season unless is completely necessary because this constant managerial roundabout needs to stop. But appreciate if he's the wrong man he's the wrong man, but I'm not convinced we can answer that for sure in January....

We do absolutely need to stop the managerial merry go round and, as much as I don’t like his football, I’d like to see Frank get a fair crack at it.

However, I do think we’re in a relegation fight if we lose the next two and have a brick set of February fixtures. The club is in a very negative place and I’d fear it spiralling.

 

[Robspur12]

We do absolutely need to stop the managerial merry go round and, as much as I don’t like his football, I’d like to see Frank get a fair crack at it.

However, I do think we’re in a relegation fight if we lose the next two and have a brick set of February fixtures. The club is in a very negative place and I’d fear it spiralling.

The club is in a negative place because the last manager was popular especially after winning a trophy. There was a large section of the fan base who did not agree with his sacking and, unless the replacement was someone like Poch they were always going to be hard to convince of its validity. The fact that it was the "manager of Brentford" who in many eyes had done little in his career other than stabilise the aforementioned Brentford, made the decision even more incomprehensible. Then some fans want to see free flowing attacking football from the outset of a manager's tenure, irrespective of what options the manager has. So, if TF did not get us competing successfully and quickly he was going to struggle to get buy in.

However, I still believe he could be the right man, if we are patient. Even if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, and I don't think we will be, he knows what it takes to deal with that successfully. He manages the squad of players so well between games that we have not yet seen the level of injuries we saw at this time last season. That's part of the big picture that I think is important.

Tbf to Frank, there is in the minds of many, no allowances for injuries, because they have convinced themselves that this season's squad is better than last despite the fact that 3 key first teamers have been out for the season and continue to be out for the foreseeable meaning they will not make any significant contribution for an entire season. People's minds have become set and they either can't or are unwilling to change their minds.

TF has lost Xavi, the best passer in the team, for the next 3 games and has to negotiate where the creative element is going to come from. In a team that is clearly suffering from a shortage of confidence. I see a lot of hesitancy in the players ATM; Fear of making a mistake. So if he is going to be judged over the next 3 games then he may be doomed.

But tbh I find it extraordinary that some fans were talking about him being the wrong man for the job before we had even reached December of his first season and we are now contemplating his sacking (albeit a small number!)

There is understandable negativity after any loss but blimey, patience is not virtue that most football fans seem to have in abundance. I always find it best to avoid the forum during a game and after a loss.

 

[Robspur12]

I think slightly differently, but not trying to suggest my thought process is any more correct than yours:

1) A lot of managers won't want to leave mid season so it might be a case of having to wait for whoever we want anyway

2) I think giving a manger a whole season is a fairer amount of time

3) Kind of continuation of 2), a lot of 'middle' clubs are now stronger, and those ones not in Europe are challenging more. We are likely out of Europe February/March time. Then Frank will have far more full weeks to work with the squad and also see if we can get closer/overtake those middling clubs who are performing better without any European football as we will then be in the same position. A decent couple of months form towards end of the season, a season of no European football and more work with the squad and things could really take shape, who knows

This season is likely a write off anyway, if things get too toxic or genuine relegation concerns come into play then of course it's a different conversation. But I don't see the need to think about pushing the button yet personally....

Great post.

 

[DeanoAustin]

The club is in a negative place because the last manager was popular especially after winning a trophy. There was a large section of the fan base who did not agree with his sacking and, unless the replacement was someone like Poch they were always going to be hard to convince of its validity. The fact that it was the "manager of Brentford" who in many eyes had done little in his career other than stabilise the aforementioned Brentford, made the decision even more incomprehensible. Then some fans want to see free flowing attacking football from the outset of a manager's tenure, irrespective of what options the manager has. So, if TF did not get us competing successfully and quickly he was going to struggle to get buy in.

However, I still believe he could be the right man, if we are patient. Even if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, and I don't think we will be, he knows what it takes to deal with that successfully. He manages the squad of players so well between games that we have not yet seen the level of injuries we saw at this time last season. That's part of the big picture that I think is important.

Tbf to Frank, there is in the minds of many, no allowances for injuries, because they have convinced themselves that this season's squad is better than last despite the fact that 3 key first teamers have been out for the season and continue to be out for the foreseeable meaning they will not make any significant contribution for an entire season. People's minds have become set and they either can't or are unwilling to change their minds.

TF has lost Xavi, the best passer in the team, for the next 3 games and has to negotiate where the creative element is going to come from. In a team that is clearly suffering from a shortage of confidence. I see a lot of hesitancy in the players ATM; Fear of making a mistake. So if he is going to be judged over the next 3 games then he may be doomed.

But tbh I find it extraordinary that some fans were talking about him being the wrong man for the job before we had even reached December of his first season and we are now contemplating his sacking (albeit a small number!)

There is understandable negativity after any loss but blimey, patience is not virtue that most football fans seem to have in abundance. I always find it best to avoid the forum during a game and after a loss.

That’s a good post and a fair one. Where I’d disagree is the reasons for why we are where we are. I don’t think it’s down to Frank or Ange’s sacking. It’s the way the club has been run in recent years. Swinging from one style of manager to the opposite and back again. People coming and going. No stability and no consistent strategy. For me, that’s why we are where we are.

I also don’t demand free flowing attacking football. I’d prefer it but I thought some of Frank’s early games (PSG and City for example) were excellent, balanced and enjoyable. A great antidote to some of the chaos of Ange’s time here.

However, the last 3 months have been insufferable. The Chelsea game is as angry as I’ve ever been in our stadium because we didn’t look like laying a glove on them. Woolwich was also horrendous and there have been many more.

I always said Frank should get the season (and a second one if he gets us top half) unless he gets us in a relegation scrap. I stand by that. However, we need results and we need them quickly.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Fat fingered double post. Too many mince pies over Christmas obviously.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

That’s a good post and a fair one. Where I’d disagree is the reasons for why we are where we are. I don’t think it’s down to Frank or Ange’s sacking. It’s the way the club has been run in recent years. Swinging from one style of manager to the opposite and back again. People coming and going. No stability and no consistent strategy. For me, that’s why we are where we are.

I also don’t demand free flowing attacking football. I’d prefer it but I thought some of Frank’s early games (PSG and City for example) were excellent, balanced and enjoyable. A great antidote to some of the chaos of Ange’s time here.

However, the last 3 months have been insufferable. The Chelsea game is as angry as I’ve ever been in our stadium because we didn’t look like laying a glove on them. Woolwich was also horrendous and there have been many more.

I always said Frank should get the season (and a second one if he gets us top half) unless he gets us in a relegation scrap. I stand by that. However, we need results and we need them quickly.

Something I’ve been thinking about, in terms of why has the football been so bad early in Frank’s tenure, is that there’s probably no other way to imbue the principles he wants in the squad, other than to play initially reactive football where preparation is especially focused on the opposition.

I was one of the people earlier on who was thinking ‘we have better players than Brentford, so he can be more proactive earlier’ but thinking more about it, if you don’t go through a period of games where you’re trying to put into practice what he wants, we’d never build the foundation. So playing Bentancur and Palinha together at home to Wolves obviously leads to a really bad result. But perhaps it’s a necessary step to go through. If he went into games like that with a ‘we’ll score more than them’ approach, we probably would have won the game but wouldn’t have put his principles in place.

With that in mind I think it’s interesting that it takes about ten games at his previous clubs before those players started to get it. Here it’s a bit different because we have CL games, higher quality players and more demands on results generally. But one of the reasons I am fairly optimistic about the second half of the season is because I think the initial part of the season was a deliberate process. Very defensive selections, very risk averse pass maps. Very deliberate slowing of tempo and intensity even with the opportunity on to counter (which he is enforcing from the touchline).

I think it’s all about teaching the players control the tempo and adjust in the right moments. And it likely takes some getting used to. But there’s no other way around getting there than to go through a really hard period to build that foundation. If he was ultra proactive first and tried to get these principles in later, I think it would have been harder.