Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Didn't he say thats not what he is claiming? He is saying the footballers are not as good or reliable as many think they are.........which they are not

I am certain that in previous posts he has said that Frank, Pep or Jesus himself would not be able to get this squad to play effectively progressive football. Therefore by implication (and I think actually had also been explicitly stated) that what we are seeing in terms of style is because Frank has no other option.

And I’ve always said I don’t agree. I think we are seeing this style because it is what Frank wants. And I’ve even been defending Frank, and advocating for the idea that in the second half of the season we are going to hopefully see the pay off to some of Frank’s decisions, and benefits of his style and choices.

It seems to me that talking down the quality of the squad is a way of sort of saying that Frank deserves time. But I don’t think you need to talk down the quality of the squad to do that. He deserves time in my view because any manager ideally gets a season to show what they are about. If we do start looking better second half of the season, I don’t think it’s because the players are suddenly all better.

 

[thfcsteff]

Im giving up even trying to be honest
Have a great Christmas

FWIW I think you've always expressed yourself clearly. Unfortunately, it appears that discussions involving disagreement -or even nuanced views- with regards to Frank or the squad are too intolerable for some to engage in without resorting to either thin contempt or ridicule (seen this aimed at others too in the past, notably gutterboy and tommysvr). It's bricky IMO.

Happy Holidays mate and here's hoping for good things in 2026

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

FWIW I think you've always expressed yourself clearly. Unfortunately, it appears that discussions involving disagreement -or even nuanced views- with regards to Frank or the squad are too intolerable for some to engage in without resorting to either thin contempt or ridicule (seen this aimed at others too in the past, notably gutterboy and tommysvr). It's bricky IMO.

Happy Holidays mate and here's hoping for good things in 2026

If that's the case in my replies then I apologies, wasn't an intention

Have a wonderful Xmas all

 

[Legohamster]

Are you saying would a team above is in the league maybe swap their players for ours
Italys 2nd choice keeper and left back
Spains right back
Argentina’s CB
Holland’s CB and CM/LM
One of englands full backs (not sure if he will make the WC squad)
Uruguay’s CM
Portugal’s CM (yeah I know he doesn’t start every game)
Swedish CM with 6 international games at the age of 19
Ghana’s main attacking outlet
Brazil’s striker who isn’t always first choice and is clearly limited but also joint 4th highest scorer in the league this season so far (how)
A French attacker who returned to the last squad whisky here
These aren’t weak international sides but then these players aren’t as good as pochs best side
We also don’t have Kane or son who at their peak were genuinely world class
But then there really is a dearth of world class attacking players out there anyway
But if people think these guys are brick then so be it

Using internationals is not a great yard stick, I'm pretty sure Ben Davies will be our most capped player? Not sure many clubs would be in a rush to sign him, the standard tends to be a lot lower for 80 percent of the games as well

But if we want to do that compare the squads to the top 6 teams, which is where we are currently aiming for, most of those clubs (if not all) have far more from elite sides

Out of those players listed, you could class about 4.5 players that play for a top international side, RKM has been called up once since he's been here, so that's the .5

 

[thfcsteff]

If that's the case in my replies then I apologies, wasn't an intention

Have a wonderful Xmas all

No mate not IMO, it was a general observation and I include myself in such things; I am sure I can always do better when posting on strong-held opinions, and I trust folks here would hold me accountable if/when I go into an area that makes others feel bad.

We don't all agree (thank christ!) but we DO all want the best for our club and each other!

Happy Christmas mate and good luck in 2026!

 

[billyiddo]

No mate not IMO, it was a general observation and I include myself in such things; I am sure I can always do better when posting on strong-held opinions, and I trust folks here would hold me accountable if/when I go into an area that makes others feel bad.

We don't all agree (thank christ!) but we DO all want the best for our club and each other!

Happy Christmas mate and good luck in 2026!

Yeah you were right to pull it up Steff - was out of order.

Apologies all - and Merry Christmas

 

[Raziel]

I am certain that in previous posts he has said that Frank, Pep or Jesus himself would not be able to get this squad to play effectively progressive football. Therefore by implication (and I think actually had also been explicitly stated) that what we are seeing in terms of style is because Frank has no other option.

And I’ve always said I don’t agree. I think we are seeing this style because it is what Frank wants. And I’ve even been defending Frank, and advocating for the idea that in the second half of the season we are going to hopefully see the pay off to some of Frank’s decisions, and benefits of his style and choices.

It seems to me that talking down the quality of the squad is a way of sort of saying that Frank deserves time. But I don’t think you need to talk down the quality of the squad to do that. He deserves time in my view because any manager ideally gets a season to show what they are about. If we do start looking better second half of the season, I don’t think it’s because the players are suddenly all better.

System managers deserve time, if you expect players to be playing 100% to certain plays/space/tactics, it takes time to make that instinctive.

Frank doesn't play a system, so how is that going to change with time? e.g. we don't play with width consistently, we don't press high consistently, we don't try to dominate possession consistently, we don't even play the same kind of players in same positions.

To me, pragmatic managers should be the ones to get an instant impact, the ones that need the least time. Ange was much more a system manager who crashed once the league adapted and he couldn't evolve, yet he got an instant impact (first 10 games), I expected Frank to make an instant impact (raise the floor), and the question would be what is his ceiling, he hasn't, so the floor is still brick and no line of sight to what would raise the ceiling.

Genuinely think he's lost, he doesn't know his best 11, he makes bad decisions in selection, and I think either the players are frustrated or just don't trust his vision (we seem to play best when we are chasing a lost cause e.g. Saudi Sportswashing Machine or being down to 9 against Pool) which suggests once it reverts to players instincts vs. instructions the floor immediately raise, it's massively concerning.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah you were right to pull it up Steff - was out of order.

Apologies all - and Merry Christmas

This, mate, is why you are The Boss around here! Top man.
And please please LMK if ever you feel I have edged into an uncomfortable spot. Hodd knows I must do, and I want to be sure to live up to this standard

p.s. this is why our forum is for me the best Spurs one out there. A proper online community!

Happy Christmas all indeed!

 

[Bishop]

Sorry, unless I’ve misunderstood you do seem to have been saying that no manager could make this squad play a more progressive style of football more effectively?

My view is not that we can't play more progressively we certainly can, the previous 2 seasons being really easy to use as examples of that. I don't believe we did it well last last season or the season before, that is the genesis of the same complaints I made under Ange.

All of the issues we had those seasons and this one are because we can not do it well or effectively with these players. I'm not a glass half full person, so I didn't look at how we played and think that yes this was effective. There's a reason we lost so many games across both seasons and much of that comes down to the personnel trying to play a style of football they weren't up to.

 

[Baleforce]

System managers deserve time, if you expect players to be playing 100% to certain plays/space/tactics, it takes time to make that instinctive.

Frank doesn't play a system, so how is that going to change with time? e.g. we don't play with width consistently, we don't press high consistently, we don't try to dominate possession consistently, we don't even play the same kind of players in same positions.

To me, pragmatic managers should be the ones to get an instant impact, the ones that need the least time. Ange was much more a system manager who crashed once the league adapted and he couldn't evolve, yet he got an instant impact (first 10 games), I expected Frank to make an instant impact (raise the floor), and the question would be what is his ceiling, he hasn't, so the floor is still brick and no line of sight to what would raise the ceiling.

Genuinely think he's lost, he doesn't know his best 11, he makes bad decisions in selection, and I think either the players are frustrated or just don't trust his vision (we seem to play best when we are chasing a lost cause e.g. Saudi Sportswashing Machine or being down to 9 against Pool) which suggests once it reverts to players instincts vs. instructions the floor immediately raise, it's massively concerning.

I don’t think there is any such thing as a best 11.

The “best team” is relative to the opposition and how they line up.

 

[Raziel]

I don’t think there is any such thing as a best 11.

The “best team” is relative to the opposition and how they line up.

But that (imo) should be for 9 out of the 11? I get you might choose between Spence and Udogie as example if you had a particularly tricky opposition winger or you felt the opposition would sit deep.

I don't think Frank knows his best midfield 3 or his best front 3 after 25+ games .. that is a problem

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

My view is not that we can't play more progressively we certainly can, the previous 2 seasons being really easy to use as examples of that. I don't believe we did it well last last season or the season before, that is the genesis of the same complaints I made under Ange.

All of the issues we had those seasons and this one are because we can not do it well or effectively with these players. I'm not a glass half full person, so I didn't look at how we played and think that yes this was effective. There's a reason we lost so many games across both seasons and much of that comes down to the personnel trying to play a style of football they weren't up to.

Ok fair enough. Now I see that I’m not actually a million miles from you because I think that in say Ange’s first season, we played progressively effectively enough over the course of a season to finish 5th. But we didn’t have the squad to sustain it once injuries bit and oppositions started to adapt. Essentially the bargain with Ange is that everyone knows what he’s going to do, and if he has his players, it may well work. If he doesn’t, he wasn’t going to change and so results could slide. So in the same way you’re saying the squad isn’t good enough, I’d say it equally wasn’t good enough to withstand the tribulations of a season and do better than 5th. And maybe a team without Europe that year could have done better than 5th. Ditto last year, we just didn’t have a deep enough squad, but we also had horrendous injuries to the point where even if he had more depth, I think we still were going to suffer massively.

I also think there’s almost an ocean between Frank and Ange. There’s a big space in between that reads progressive football but isn’t an extreme version like Ange’s. And I absolutely think our players are capable of playing it. Maybe that’s a Marco Silva.

I can see where you’re coming from. I just read our tribulations most of the time as squad depth rather than squad quality. With the added tribulation this year of being at the start of a coaching cycle. So like you I’m not going to read too much into Frank until he’s had a season so that we can really judge. But I do think our players under a different manager could play more progressive football than Frank’s and still get results. I don’t think we’ve arrived at this point where it has to be Frank and it has to his way. I think he was hired for broader reasons than that.

 

[billyiddo]

But that (imo) should be for 9 out of the 11? I get you might choose between Spence and Udogie as example if you had a particularly tricky opposition winger or you felt the opposition would sit deep.

I don't think Frank knows his best midfield 3 or his best front 3 after 25+ games .. that is a problem

That's down to squad building over the long term more than the manager, no? Lots of players of a similar ability & no real standouts.

We've also got games every 3-4 days where we need to field a strong a team as possible (vs say if we had Europa or Conference instead of CL) so even if he did have a strongest XI in mind he'd seldom get a chance to use it at this stage of the season.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

System managers deserve time, if you expect players to be playing 100% to certain plays/space/tactics, it takes time to make that instinctive.

Frank doesn't play a system, so how is that going to change with time? e.g. we don't play with width consistently, we don't press high consistently, we don't try to dominate possession consistently, we don't even play the same kind of players in same positions.

To me, pragmatic managers should be the ones to get an instant impact, the ones that need the least time. Ange was much more a system manager who crashed once the league adapted and he couldn't evolve, yet he got an instant impact (first 10 games), I expected Frank to make an instant impact (raise the floor), and the question would be what is his ceiling, he hasn't, so the floor is still brick and no line of sight to what would raise the ceiling.

Genuinely think he's lost, he doesn't know his best 11, he makes bad decisions in selection, and I think either the players are frustrated or just don't trust his vision (we seem to play best when we are chasing a lost cause e.g. Saudi Sportswashing Machine or being down to 9 against Pool) which suggests once it reverts to players instincts vs. instructions the floor immediately raise, it's massively concerning.

Agreed with your points in the last paragraph. I don’t particularly jump up and down with the end of the Liverpool performance for example as if it shows anything. I want more consistent, complete performances. But what I will say is that I think part of Frank’s way is to be able to control, slow and fasten the tempo of games at the right times. And showing the team can raise the tempo when needed is a green shoot IMV.

And where I have defended Frank is that I don’t think he deserves less time because he is not a system manager. Even though he’s more pragmatic, it’s still a way of working that will take a squad some getting used to, especially because it’s so different to what came before. All of when to stay, when to press, when to pass forward, when to hold, you need a whole squad to be in sync with a whole new way and I think it takes time.

My view is if we’re still clearly struggling in say late Feb and it looks like we’d do well to be top half, I’m not buying in for season 2. But if we start showing more consistency, and the second half is much better than the first, I’m happy for another year. Like Poch’s Chelsea season - he ended really strong and started inconsistently. If we get something like that, I’ll be ok. Both because I think that he is making decisions with regards to tempo, intensity and rotation which should pay off in the second half, and because he’s trying to implement a whole new culture and coaching method on a squad used to something else. And I think that deserves some grace.

 

[Baleforce]

But that (imo) should be for 9 out of the 11? I get you might choose between Spence and Udogie as example if you had a particularly tricky opposition winger or you felt the opposition would sit deep.

I don't think Frank knows his best midfield 3 or his best front 3 after 25+ games .. that is a problem

I think there is a lot more to it than that, you always want to have a height advantage for example, thats a massive influence on who starts.

 

[billyiddo]

Every manager has a setup they want/need to implement as base, as something to work from - Frank's no different there. The difference lays in how wedded to that setup he is & how much he adapts game to game or how that setup changes over time. Ange for comparisons sake is a man that had total belief in a singular style of play so that's what he drilled - i don't see how that approach (one setup you stick to through thick & thin) is more timecostly than the others (in fact i could see why drilling a singular style of play is naturally quicker)

 

[Bishop]

So

Yes, he could certainly play.
Look at the quality of movement ahead of him; Dele, Sonny, Kane to name the main...I still think Romero is a better on the ball player. Pure defending? Toby was very solid, in a set-up designed to be he was great.
BTW, I have not forgotten anything about the Poch era. I appreciate this is a tough moment for people to see positives in Romero. I disagree with your definitive viewpoint FWIW.

Quality of movement is one thing, Ange had players making runs, Romero rarely ever hit them. I don't rate Johnson but he's a great example, he was often in acres of space. With Toby in the team he would have taken advantage of that space. Romero rarely ever did, because his passing vision and execution are not of the same level.

Romero is a good passer, but on here it's overstated, his passing isn't that great honestly. If you've watched lots of football in Europe over the last couple of decades he's only a solid B star class passer from the back.

 

[Raziel]

Quality of movement is one thing, Ange had players making runs, Romero rarely ever hit them. I don't rate Johnson but he's a great example, he was often in acres of space. With Toby in the team he would have taken advantage of that space. Romero rarely ever did, because his passing vision and execution are not of the same level.

Romero is a good passer, but on here it's overstated, his passing isn't that great honestly. If you've watched lots of football in Europe over the last couple of decades he's only a solid B star class passer from the back.

I struggle with evaluating our passers because of the runner point.

So many times, certain players have actually put the ball into a good space and no one was there, not a bad pass, just no runner or no one taking the chance. I think it's noticeable that RKM and Xavi have a pass or two each game that goes to a space with no player, a space they expected someone to be. That's on Frank.

 

[Bishop]

Ok fair enough. Now I see that I’m not actually a million miles from you because I think that in say Ange’s first season, we played progressively effectively enough over the course of a season to finish 5th. But we didn’t have the squad to sustain it once injuries bit and oppositions started to adapt. Essentially the bargain with Ange is that everyone knows what he’s going to do, and if he has his players, it may well work. If he doesn’t, he wasn’t going to change and so results could slide. So in the same way you’re saying the squad isn’t good enough, I’d say it equally wasn’t good enough to withstand the tribulations of a season and do better than 5th. And maybe a team without Europe that year could have done better than 5th. Ditto last year, we just didn’t have a deep enough squad, but we also had horrendous injuries to the point where even if he had more depth, I think we still were going to suffer massively.

I also think there’s almost an ocean between Frank and Ange. There’s a big space in between that reads progressive football but isn’t an extreme version like Ange’s. And I absolutely think our players are capable of playing it. Maybe that’s a Marco Silva.

I can see where you’re coming from. I just read our tribulations most of the time as squad depth rather than squad quality. With the added tribulation this year of being at the start of a coaching cycle. So like you I’m not going to read too much into Frank until he’s had a season so that we can really judge. But I do think our players under a different manager could play more progressive football than Frank’s and still get results. I don’t think we’ve arrived at this point where it has to be Frank and it has to his way. I think he was hired for broader reasons than that.

My stance at the end of last season was that there was a version of the football we attempted to play that needed some significant rebalancing, mainly via recruitment and some adjustment of the system to be a little bit more considered it could be a start fruitful.

So we aren't a million miles off, but I probably think we need a hell of a lot more work than you do. For example I do think Ange's full court press, kamikaze attack compensated significantly for the actual lack of finesse and quality specifically in the final third. I don't believe that just turning down the level say 15% would get us the balance we needed defensively as well as still keeping a good attacking threat especially when honestly I didn't even think we were good in an attacking sense under Ange even with kamikaze football in full effect.

Which brings us to where we are today with a manager who is trying to fix the leaking sieve that is our defence and has rebalanced too far defensively and the lack of quality in attack is far more exposed, but again a Silva would probably have a better balance but for me no amount of balance is getting this squad to defend well and attack well at the same time, but that's just my view.

 

[Raziel]

My stance at the end of last season was that there was a version of the football we attempted to play that needed some significant rebalancing, mainly via recruitment and some adjustment of the system to be a little bit more considered it could be a start fruitful.

So we aren't a million miles off, but I probably think we need a hell of a lot more work than you do. For example I do think Ange's full court press, kamikaze attack compensated significantly for the actual lack of finesse and quality specifically in the final third. I don't believe that just turning down the level say 15% would get us the balance we needed defensively as well as still keeping a good attacking threat especially when honestly I didn't even think we were good in an attacking sense under Ange even with kamikaze football in full effect.

Which brings us to where we are today with a manager who is trying to fix the leaking sieve that is our defence and has rebalanced too far defensively and the lack of quality in attack is far more exposed, but again a Silva would probably have a better balance but for me no amount of balance is getting this squad to defend well and attack well at the same time, but that's just my view.

ok, but that leads to a few follow up questions

- We haven't actually fixed anything, it isn't like we are drawing a bunch of games 0-0 with no creativity but hard to break down? and for me, our backline with Paulinha in front of them in a coherent system should be able to defend if we weren't trying to do too much going forward.
- Creativity is great, but you can compensate (as you said with Ange's kamikaze attack), e.g. fill the midfield with runners (why Gray plus Bergvall seems to improve us), be more physical, focus on width, there are other options vs. just "we need to buy x player" most teams in the PL don't have more creative players than us but still do ok.
- I don't think we are close but not that far either, fix the LW, fix the CF position (maybe Solanke with LW and RW working does?)

I'm still struggling because I get everything said but this squad with all it's shortcomings is not a 12th-17th side, I think every team outside of top 6 and Villa/Saudi Sportswashing Machine would probably swap 22 for 22 without a second thought with us.