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The 'If You Still Need to Purge Yourself Of Ange' Thread

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  • Total voters
    36
I would also say…the end of 23/24 wasn’t even THAT bad. If you look at the results, we still get some big wins. It wasn’t world beating form, but it was decent enough. We had Saudi Sportswashing Machine away, Liverpool, Arsenal and City in that run of fixtures we lost towards the end of the season. Ideally we would have won more. But it’s a difficult run. Taken in the round, we finished 5th. I don’t know how or why it should be connected to the next season, when the general run of form even after those ten games wasn’t even that bad.
The reason we finished 5th was based on the first 25% of the season, from there on in we played like a side facing relegation
 
The reason we finished 5th was based on the first 25% of the season, from there on in we played like a side facing relegation

I’ve looked at our fixtures in that season because people keep saying it was relegation form after the first ten games, and I can’t for the life of me understand what they mean.

There was a really bad 4 games after the Chelsea game (lots of injuries and suspensions to deal with) which still includes a draw at Emirates Marketing Project. And then a bad 4 game stretch towards the end of the season playing against the top sides one after the other. And then the rest of the season was basically fine. Not saying it was world beating. But it wasn’t relegation form.

Genuinely, are we looking at the same fixtures?
 
The reason we finished 5th was based on the first 25% of the season, from there on in we played like a side facing relegation
It does make me laugh how posters like you try and asterisk anything positive Ange achieved. He got us finishing 5th in our first Kane-less season, 'Yeah, but...' He wins the Europa League in his second, 'Well yeah, but...'

The facts are he was here two seasons, had us finishing 5th in the PL, one very poor league campaign and Europa League winners all in two years. Dress it up any way you want, he's in a net positive....
 
It does make me laugh how posters like you try and asterisk anything positive Ange achieved. He got us finishing 5th in our first Kane-less season, 'Yeah, but...' He wins the Europa League in his second, 'Well yeah, but...'

The facts are he was here two seasons, had us finishing 5th in the PL, one very poor league campaign and Europa League winners all in two years. Dress it up any way you want, he's in a net positive....

It’s strange isn’t it. Either you give him credit for that 25% of the season too, or you don’t. But if you don’t, then you really really get into circumstances, context, what else might have caused the results etc. Because if there were other reasons we won 10/11 games, then maybe there were other reasons we struggled in the league after etc etc.
 
It’s strange isn’t it. Either you give him credit for that 25% of the season too, or you don’t. But if you don’t, then you really really get into circumstances, context, what else might have caused the results etc. Because if there were other reasons we won 10/11 games, then maybe there were other reasons we struggled in the league after etc etc.
Its the bielsa effect. Very unique (but flawed) style of play hits teams like a steamroller. Then we get picked apart by Chelsea and suddenly thats the blue print right there and that blueprint has been honed by opposition managers over time to the point where we are very easy to beat. It's basically "lads, its Tottenham, if you do this, you're going to beat them 9/10". He didn't play like that in the later stages of the Europa. But we aren't going to tolerate a season of 27% possession camping on the edge of our own box are we?
 
Its the bielsa effect. Very unique (but flawed) style of play hits teams like a steamroller. Then we get picked apart by Chelsea and suddenly thats the blue print right there and that blueprint has been honed by opposition managers over time to the point where we are very easy to beat. It's basically "lads, its Tottenham, if you do this, you're going to beat them 9/10". He didn't play like that in the later stages of the Europa. But we aren't going to tolerate a season of 27% possession camping on the edge of our own box are we?

The idea that the blueprint was discovered doesn’t make sense. We still won lots of games after that first Chelsea game. Including beating really big teams away from home. We also lost to inferior teams at home. If the blueprint was out, we would routinely get destroyed by literally every team.
 
Its the bielsa effect. Very unique (but flawed) style of play hits teams like a steamroller. Then we get picked apart by Chelsea and suddenly thats the blue print right there and that blueprint has been honed by opposition managers over time to the point where we are very easy to beat. It's basically "lads, its Tottenham, if you do this, you're going to beat them 9/10". He didn't play like that in the later stages of the Europa. But we aren't going to tolerate a season of 27% possession camping on the edge of our own box are we?

You should watch the first ten games again I think.
 
...didn't you once say I only worked in specific boxes whereas you operated across a spectrum which embraced various shades of grey? I have to say my friend, it doesn't always feel that way (FWIW I generally don't believe in absolutes but do believe in dialectics, even when -for me- only one truth exists...I know another truth exists for someone else)...anyway...how about we get back to football and tic-tacs!

Nah I never spoke about spectrums and different shades of grey. You made that part up and misquoted me. I think the major emphasis on what I said was that I am quite happy in the grey, but notice that some people like their lives black and white. It's similar to the concept that some people only like single root causes and can't do the "some from column A, some from column B" approach.

What I would say is that I'm also quite happy to make decisions. If I have to turn things into black or white I will if that's my job to do that. Otherwise it's opinions only from me if it's someone else's accountability. If other people label them as absolutes, that's on them, not me. That is why I'm hugely proud of my football club for making sense of all that grey space and making a big decision on Ange. They took all the quantitative and qualitative data available to them and boldly made a manager change. You won't see this supporter bemoaning them for their decision. I know they had way more info than I had access to and I can only trust that they used it with best intent for our football club.
 
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