Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Craig_J]

I get that, but I don't think it shouldve come at the expense of 21 league defeats. Are we really that bad? Have we really sunk that low?

The injury crisis did play a massive part no matter what you think of Ange. Right now it is very competitive at the top. Especially this season.

If we had have finished mid table and got knocked out of the Europa and finished potless what would that have achieved?

I think he managed it well and was brave in committing and trusting it was easier to win a few knockout rounds then to run against the wind for months on end after being injury ravaged

I think the end result is all that matters.

 

[fernadez]

Nobody has explained to me what prioritizing the cup means outside of player rotation, which we was doing anyway.

More specifically playing balanced tactics vs unbalanced. What is the mindset to setting up a team in a way that is less likely to yield positive results?

I was never calling for him to be sacked, just manage, which I said he has shown he can do, when forced to.

 

[Craig_J]

He took his time and waited for our strongest to come back and it worked

The injury forecast was not good at all and only getting worse

There is a legitimate argument it is h is tactics.. however it seems we made changes to our medical department because of it. I think that would indicate the club had legitimate reason to believe the medical department was as responsible.

Maybe not 100% respondible but enough to change things up

 

[carl]

How many more times do I need to say this. I want Ange sacked if nothing would change for next season. 21 league defeats is not possible to accept HOWEVER with the trophy and Champions League secured for next season, I want the board and the footballing executive staff to discuss with Ange his strategy to how we can kick on next season being much more competitive in the league, because it is hard or impossible to sack a winning manager. If we are rubbish again he will have to go in October. That is a possible route we can go

This is what I was saying many days ago as well, I want to see change. You are just spending your day off being contrarian and trying to wind up anyone that doesn't think you are right

I'm not a mind reader, you said you wanted him sacked a few days ago and now you don't.

Anyway would you take his word for it if he were to say he'd change his approach next season when he's been pretty adamant from the start that he won't? Cup games apart obviously as he already said he plays differently in those

 

[billyiddo]

What we have seen in the past far to often - under virtually every manager - is no out and out commitment to winning the cup

And that’s led to us to ending up winning nothing. I am pretty sure under Poch we rested players whenever we were in Europa and got knocked out (like against Brugge) It was beyond frustrating that multiple managers (I can’t remember who else but it happening a lot. Redknapp against Pompey too) never took it seriously and always thought we could beat the weaker sides and rest for the league

I found it refreshing that for once a manager decided instead of prioritising the league he thought why not go all out for a very winnable cup

You might find that reckless or negligent but ultimately it worked - and it’s the only approach that has worked in the past 17 years

Focusing on trying to win a cup is not a problem in of itself, the problem is that prioritising 7 knockout matches over 3 months shouldn't result in the league form being what it was. I think we should expect better and as an excuse I don't buy it

 

[Ron Burgess]

I'm not a mind reader, you said you wanted him sacked a few days ago and now you don't.

Anyway would you take his word for it if he were to say he'd change his approach next season when he's been pretty adamant from the start that he won't? Cup games apart obviously as he already said he plays differently in those

You are very black and white. I am still "sack" but with an asterisk or a caveat. I agree with you that we cannot have another bottom half season throwing away the league under any circumstances, BUT if there is a plan for change I would give him another chance.

I think the squad has been a let down. Last season in August we looked so light, 4 teenagers signed.

If we sign a proper quality number 6, a quality winger and another fullback/centre back, international level not a load of kids, it could make a lot of difference.

I am wondering what Don Paratici would do with Angeball as well. So I have an open mind, but fudge me if Ange walks in and says nothing changes in the league, give him his P45 STAT

 

[Craig_J]

Focusing on trying to win a cup is not a problem in of itself, the problem is that prioritising 7 knockout matches over 3 months shouldn't result in the league form being what it was. I think we should expect better and as an excuse I don't buy it

Persoanlly I believe that there's been many times where if we were to have the equivalent amount of players out across the field we would struggle because we rarely have had strength in depth. In my opinion it is an approach we take because we don't want to sign enough quality back ups.

 

[thfcsteff]

Nobody has explained to me what prioritizing the cup means outside of player rotation, which we was doing anyway.

More specifically playing balanced tactics vs unbalanced. What is the mindset to setting up a team in a way that is less likely to yield positive results?

I was never calling for him to be sacked, just manage, which I said he has shown he can do, when forced to.

It means keeping key players fit in a season where lifting a fudging teacup in the canteen was leading to shoulder dislocations.

 

[thfcsteff]

Focusing on trying to win a cup is not a problem in of itself, the problem is that prioritising 7 knockout matches over 3 months shouldn't result in the league form being what it was. I think we should expect better and as an excuse I don't buy it

Everyone expects better, not the least the manager and the squad. I'm more interested in the reasons WHY that priority was made, in looking at those and how those can be addressed. I'd wager that starts with how we treat pre-season/transfer windows/physio dept. The full story of this season has never been revealed because he went bunker mentality and took the hits.

 

[Craig_J]

It means keeping key players fit in a season where lifting a fudging teacup in the canteen was leading to shoulder dislocations.

Yeah this is it

Ange realised (I think) we were on the road to nowhere and that we had to find our own route through the cups and wait for more players to come back. we were in the mix but people all went out so fast and we couldn’t sustain a push for anything league wise

He sensibly prioritised the Europa whilst ensuring players simply didn’t get injured anymore

 

[fernadez]

Ok but that still doesn't explain the difference in tactical approach. If he was prioritizing and trying to win the cup and approached it accordingly, what was going on in the league.

As I said I've got not issue with the rotation my issue is with setting up in two completely different ways, when one of them was securing results.

 

[harr1984]

Ok but that still doesn't explain the difference in tactical approach. If he was prioritizing and trying to win the cup and approached it accordingly, what was going on in the league.

As I said I've got not issue with the rotation my issue is with setting up in two completely different ways, when one of them was securing results.

Well one rather obvious theory would be that it's a lot easier to sit deep and be pragmatic when you have a back 4 of Romero/VDV/Udogie/Porro rather than mish mash back 4s including Gray and Davies at CB etc it's quite likely he thought we aren't going to be keeping many clean sheets here so need to be more front footed and look for goals....

 

[DeanoAustin]

Well one rather obvious theory would be that it's a lot easier to sit deep and be pragmatic when you have a back 4 of Romero/VDV/Udogie/Porro rather than mish mash back 4s including Gray and Davies at CB etc it's quite likely he thought we aren't going to be keeping many clean sheets here so need to be more front footed and look for goals....

It's a fair theory but doesn't really explain it for me though for a couple of reasons.

1. The "easiest" thing to do in football as a coach is to set up to be hard to beat. Regardless of personnel, with good coaching and more balance, we'd have been more competitive in the league
2. Even when he's had his first choice defenders in the league over the last two seasons, we've looked disorganised

@fernadez asks some valid questions which I really can't find an answer for.

 

[harr1984]

It's a fair theory but doesn't really explain it for me though for a couple of reasons.

1. The "easiest" thing to do in football as a coach is to set up to be hard to beat. Regardless of personnel, with good coaching and more balance, we'd have been more competitive in the league
2. Even when he's had his first choice defenders in the league over the last two seasons, we've looked disorganised

@fernadez asks some valid questions which I really can't find an answer for.

Yeah certainly valid questions and none of us can give the answers other than the big man himself. Our goals conceded record is pretty good with that back 5, but it doesn't excuse everything. At the same time I don't buy it is as simple as some like to make out, but it's all been done to death and not something I care about right now ....

 

[Raziel]

Ok but that still doesn't explain the difference in tactical approach. If he was prioritizing and trying to win the cup and approached it accordingly, what was going on in the league.

As I said I've got not issue with the rotation my issue is with setting up in two completely different ways, when one of them was securing results.

The answer could be, where we were in January changed the focus from medium-long term to short term

- If your view is long term, you will be more likely to sacrifice short term results in order to engrain the system
- If you think you no longer will get the time, it becomes what can you deliver now, regardless of if that is to save your job and/or just to ensure you walk out with an achievement.
- The level of focus/analysis/opposition counter done for EL was simply different than PL (plus level of opposition)

Rotation, player selection, time spent on tactics, decision to vary from a system to effectively ensuring you counter/nullify the opposition is huge changes. Something that has been missed, 3 out of last 4 EL games we had a clean sheet.

It's a crazy story, he abandoned his principles, he sacrificed everything for one bet/gamble and it paid of in a way that (hilariously) much more recognized coaches (Jose/Conte) were unable to achieve .. lets hear the brick those two have to say now ..