Ange in or out?

[tommysvr]

Ok so was 2008/2009 the best season we've had so far in the last 25 years?

No. For me 2016/17 was the most enjoyable. But the context is drastically different. We were only 9 years from a trophy then. Social media and the sexy thing hadn't kicked off yet. The Premier League was nowhere near as competitive. Etc etc.

 

[tommysvr]

fudge me I'll rephrase it.

So the difference of 1 place in the league changes it from our best season in 25-30 years to what?

A really bad season where the manager is very likely to be sacked.

Not sure if I did say best season in 25-30 years? Maybe I did. Don't mean that by any means -- but it'll easily be our biggest achievement in that long. The only other things we have to hold on to are beating Ajax in a semi-final, finishing 2nd on 86 points and beating Emirates Marketing Project to 4th. Brilliant.

 

[tommysvr]

It's actually about winning games. As in when you play a football match, the aim is to win the match. "The game is about glory, it's about going out and beating the other lot..." he didn't say "its about going out and being given a silver cup because you beat a few pony European teams and the worst Man Utd team in about 40 years...

What more glory is to be had than from winning a European trophy? You'd genuinely prefer we finish 4th or 5th because we'd won more games in the league?

Of course...we all want both! But it hasn't happened and I'm certainly not going to turn my nose at a cup because the league form has been bad. I'll enjoy it all the fudging more.

 

[Ron Burgess]

And I bet if he didn't change things and we lost, you'd be here to post that.
If he did change things and we lost, you'd post that.

I don't care about other teams. I care about Tottenham Hotspur winning things. I want to see us win a trophy. The league has been atrocious and Ange is responsible for that...but I don't care right now, because we have a Europa League Final, and a very real chance to win a big trophy that we've all been so desperate to win.

Wait hang on (quick glance at the thread title), I posted why I am Ange out. It's on topic and you are kind of trying to railroad what I said. Tossing up about Ange's tactics in a few select wins rather than explaining how we got to a 20 (+?) league defeat season, or this nonsense about a sustained success philosophy and a "not just trying to scrape a trophy" going completely out the window.

So, do you happen to be Ange in by any chance? Care to explain rather than sift through my opinion trying to find gnat poo in pepper.

 

[DubSpur]

Not for me it won't. As an outsider I don't look at West Ham winning a European Cup while being irrelevant in the league or Wigan winning a cup while being relegated as great seasons for them.

I think it will be our greatest result (singular) in 25-30 years, granted.

Ask either of those two sets of fans what their best season were and they'll say the years they won those cups.

 

[DubSpur]

So the difference of 1 place in the league changes it from our best ever season to what?

If there was ever a danger that we would get relegated the teams played in the league would've been a lot stronger. Ange would've most likely been sacked. It was never a possibility.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's actually about winning games. As in when you play a football match, the aim is to win the match. "The game is about glory, it's about going out and beating the other lot..." he didn't say "its about going out and being given a silver cup because you beat a few pony European teams and the worst Man Utd team in about 40 years...

If you'd rather finish 9th in the league and win nothing then that's your prerogative. You do you.

Maybe its different for the fans who don't actually get to go to the games or something? I just know that if we happen to win the Cup next Wednesday then I will be in the stadium in Bilbao crying my eyes out. 9th place and in fact even 4th place would not do that to me.

 

[carl]

If there was ever a danger that we would get relegated the teams played in the league would've been a lot stronger. Ange would've most likely been sacked. It was never a possibility.

That's the not the point though is it.

So winning the Europa and finishing 17th is our greatest season in 30 years.

Winning the Europa and getting relegated would still make it our greatest season in 30 years or our worst?

The difference in 1 place in the league would swing it from worst season in 30 years to best because of a cup win? Sorry I'm not having it

 

[carl]

If you'd rather finish 9th in the league and win nothing then that's your prerogative. You do you.

Maybe its different for the fans who don't actually get to go to the games or something? I just know that if we happen to win the Cup next Wednesday then I will be in the stadium in Bilbao crying my eyes out. 9th place and in fact even 4th place would not do that to me.

I'm in the stadium every home game crying my eyes out so I've been used to it for the last 18 months

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's a great result from a horrendous season. You're looking at things as too black and white. Also, I have significant doubts over our ability to beat United. They are improving. They trashed a very decent Bilbao team. Yeah the aggregate score flattered them, but I make them favourites.

No it would be a great season. We would've won a big trophy. I think it is you who is looking at things as too black and white.

I too make Man Utd favourites. However, beat them and this team goes down in history as one of 4 Spurs teams to win a European trophy. Ange would also go down in history as the third Spurs manager to win a European trophy - I bet that bit would really hurt you wouldn't it?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Wait hang on (quick glance at the thread title), I posted why I am Ange out. It's on topic and you are kind of trying to railroad what I said. Tossing up about Ange's tactics in a few select wins rather than explaining how we got to a 20 (+?) league defeat season, or this nonsense about a sustained success philosophy and a "not just trying to scrape a trophy" going completely out the window.

So, do you happen to be Ange in by any chance? Care to explain rather than sift through my opinion trying to find gnat poo in pepper.

I'll answer this question (though I know it wasn't asked directly to me). If we win the Europa League then I would very much be Ange in. Why?.... Because he will have done something that so many other managers have failed to do under ENIC's tenure of Spurs and win us a trophy.

 

[Finney Is Back]

That's the not the point though is it.

So winning the Europa and finishing 17th is our greatest season in 30 years.

Winning the Europa and getting relegated would still make it our greatest season in 30 years or our worst?

The difference in 1 place in the league would swing it from worst season in 30 years to best because of a cup win? Sorry I'm not having it

But we're not getting relegated and we never were getting relegated. We beat Brentford and Man Utd which all but ensured our safety. We have then clearly sacrificed league position to be as strong as possible for the Europa.

 

[carl]

I'll answer this question (though I know it wasn't asked directly to me). If we win the Europa League then I would very much be Ange in. Why?.... Because he will have done something that so many other managers have failed to do under ENIC's tenure of Spurs and win us a trophy.

But losing more games than you've won in the league over 2 years counts for nothing because we beat some average European teams?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'm in the stadium every home game crying my eyes out so I've been used to it for the last 18 months

Certainly not used to winning a trophy though eh?

 

[carl]

But we're not getting relegated and we never were getting relegated. We beat Brentford and Man Utd which all but ensured our safety. We have then clearly sacrificed league position to be as strong as possible for the Europa.

You're either intentionally avoiding answering the question or you're still not getting the point I'm trying to make. Either way I'll leave it there

 

[Finney Is Back]

But losing more games than you've won in the league over 2 years counts for nothing because we beat some average European teams?

It counts for something. However, I would rather have a bad season in the league and win a cup than have a 2nd to 6th finish in the league and win nothing. If we win the Europa League then this season will be a better one than last season even though we finished 5th.

 

[carl]

Certainly not used to winning a trophy though eh?

Like I said earlier, I'd rather not a win a trophy if the trade off is brick football for 2 years. 3 premium season tickets aren't cheap and I go to games to be entertained

 

[Finney Is Back]

You're either intentionally avoiding answering the question or you're still not getting the point I'm trying to make. Either way I'll leave it there

The point is a moot one. We will finish 17th because we have clearly thrown games in the league to concentrate on the Cup since we were all but mathematically safe. If we had exited the cup earlier then we likely would've won more league games and finished higher. If relegation looked likely then, again, we would've put out stronger teams in the league and put more effort into winning games (just as we did against Brentford and Man Utd for example).

 

[carl]

It counts for something. However, I would rather have a bad season in the league and win a cup than have a 2nd to 6th finish in the league and win nothing. If we win the Europa League then this season will be a better one than last season even though we finished 5th.

And that I can sort of agree with, however that doesn't mean it's enough to justify Ange keeping his job

 

[Finney Is Back]

Like I said earlier, I'd rather not a win a trophy if the trade off is brick football for 2 years. 3 premium season tickets aren't cheap and I go to games to be entertained

I think we have played some very entertaining football over the last 2 years. We have played some naive stuff as well. This season we were decimated by injuries and then prioritised the Cup. Would you honestly rather finish (say) 7th with no trophy than finish 16th or 17th and win the Europa League?