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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel

parklane1 said:
I have never got the hype over this guy ( Pogba), he may well be a good player but from what i have seen he is vastly overated.
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Add Mourinho to the mix and you have Uniteds current problems. They should currently be called Ununited
Pogba is a very good player not sure he or any star players can now coexist with José!

Mourinho is the show!
 
So this latest fall-out is about on schedule for Mourinho to leave a club.

This is where United's lack of proper management structure in the boardroom could be a problem. Neither Woodward nor the troupe chinless wonders are likely to know what to do. Mourinho seems to be inviting the sack, but backing the star player over the manager is hardly a recipe for success. Hopefully they limp onward.
 
Obviously they didn't play as well as they did against us or get the support from the fans as Moanhino couldnt be bothered to clap the fans and nod his head knowingly.
 
Hahaha love that video.

See I am torn, I don't like Mourinho and I think alot of this falls in his court but he is 100% right on Pogba. Bar maybe a few games at the start of last season Pogba has been dreadful for United and people harking to France form means nothing, Man United and Mourinho don't pay him for France form
 
Who is playing well under Jose?

de Gae maybe!

Bet Poch would be able to get Pogba sorted. (sadly we might see this sooner than we would like)
Jose is just a grumpy old curmudgeon before his time.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Hahaha love that video.

See I am torn, I don't like Mourinho and I think alot of this falls in his court but he is 400% right on Pogba. Bar maybe a few games at the start of last season Pogba has been dreadful for United and people harking to France form means nothing, Man United and Mourinho don't pay him for France form
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It's a really interesting one, Man United. I don't think Ed Woodward is as bad as is made out. I think when he first got the job, running after Galacticos and ending up with Fellaini when the squad was threadbare was terrible, but I think now he's gotten his feet under the table he's clearer about their strategy.

He wanted to get LVG out because he needed someone to guarantee trophies and consistency, and Jose seemed like a sure bet. Jose was also a big name and a big ego who has worked at the biggest clubs and could manage the big players that Woodward would sign - because he wants his social media hits.

The problem is, Jose is no longer that guy. I think he had a style that was great for 10 years ago, when the players seemed to love him. But either the players have changed or he has. Either way, it doesn't look like the right fit. Ozil may have thought it was some revolutionary man management to get dressed down infront of the entire team, as if it gave him the kick he needed. And maybe Luke Shaw is now tougher for the tough love he has received, but there is barely a single player at United playing with any consistency, or anything close to their potential. Martial has been alienated. Pogba has been alienated. Sanchez was just needless and disrupted the squad harmony...but at least he got them some social media hits.

It's great for us, but United is not a club pulling in the same direction. Woodward is trying to balance being the world's most commercially successful club, with signings like Sanchez and Pogba, while now seemingly trying to pivot into signing younger players that have some good years ahead of them. He wants to keep Martial. He'll probably try and keep Pogba. Both players probably think they can outlast Jose, who neither has a style of football or a management style that seems to suit a top club with attacking traditions anymore.

I'm not sure what the answer is for them. I think Poch is almost the perfect manager for them but it's just not a good job for him - there's too much transition required, and too many commercial considerations that take away from the footballing effort, the team building. Maybe Tuchel is a good bet for them at the end of the season. Maybe someone like Ancelotti. It's just a really interesting one, it needs someone with a big enough ego to manage that club, that carries enough weight with the players, that can balance both the commercial side with the footballing side and not have it detract from his mission. I feel like I'm describing Zidane, but I don't think he'd want it either.

I think they and Jose are stuck with each other - I can't see who is a guaranteed better choice who would also want the job. I almost think they'd be in better shape if they stuck with LVG - the only problem is his football was seen as dull. But he had the ego, he could manage big players but he'd bring through the youth too.

As an aside, I love the leaks that come out from the club. A few weeks ago when they were trying to convince everyone that Jose and Woodward were getting on fine because Jose sends him texts saying 'kisses to the twins'. Utterly hilarious.
 
I also think no crisis is as big as being made out? I have never worked in an office where everyone gets on, often have it out with my boss and its always sometimes for the better. Same probably for Woodward and Jose, maybe not, who knows but what we do know is the Press love it, cling to it and blow it all out of all proportion.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Ozil may have thought it was some revolutionary man management to get dressed down infront of the entire team, as if it gave him the kick he needed.
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As an aside my memory of that Ozil quote was there was no ‘and I proved him wrong’

It was more ‘Mourinho said I was lazy, so I left, got a pay rise and still only turn up for a handful of games, avoiding all responsibility by being the ‘assist king’. Needless to say I had the last laugh.’
 
Grays_1890 said:
I also think no crisis is as big as being made out? I have never worked in an office where everyone gets on, often have it out with my boss and its always sometimes for the better. Same probably for Woodward and Jose, maybe not, who knows but what we do know is the Press love it, cling to it and blow it all out of all proportion.
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I just think they won't ever reach their potential (at least on the pitch) unless they are all pulling in the same direction, from board room down to pitch. And it's the advantage we have over them right now. They may be going great guns with their commercial side, but it isn't translating well. It now seems like Woodward is looking to balance that by keeping some of the high potential players happy, and not bringing in players like Toby. So he's flip flopping a fair bit.

I don't think they'll ever reach their potential unless they decide what they want to be. And that has to come from Woodward. It seems like they want to be the Real Madrid of England, and to be fair they have the history and the money to make that happen. But I think even Real got a bit smarter around how to build a team, rather than just sign Galacticos, and they were lucky enough to get Zidane as the perfect Manager for that club. I don't know that there is a perfect Manager out there for United right now. Even Real have signed a Manager who is more comfortable building a team and bringing through youth.

I'm sure Poch and Levy have healthy disagreements, but they are broadly pulling in the same direction. Woodward, Jose, Pogba etc clearly aren't. And I really think Jose has lost whatever magic actually made him at one point capable of managing Real Madrid. If it was anyone else doing the same job as he's done for United, compared to what Pep has done for City, he would have been laughed out of that job long ago. It's purely his history that is keeping him there, and the lack of viable alternatives.
 
Yes, it's hard to argue against the view that football is changing and some managers adapt and some don't. Wenger is the classic example of the innovative manager who could adapt. Fergie is the put up as the last old-school manager with complete control, but showed an ability to adapt and delegate.

I'm hesitant to put Mourinho in the unable to adapt category because he seems to have undergone a personality change. His failures seem more personal and less related to how he manages players. It might be the same end result, but somehow different.
 
I know is a personal thing but I couldn't do my job to the highest level if I was living in a hotel, I hated being away from home for more than 2 or 3 days.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Hahaha love that video.

See I am torn, I don't like Mourinho and I think alot of this falls in his court but he is 400% right on Pogba. Bar maybe a few games at the start of last season Pogba has been dreadful for United and people harking to France form means nothing, Man United and Mourinho don't pay him for France form
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His France form means there is a lot more to come from the player, that Utd are unable to extract from him.

He is right in that Pogba isnt doing the business for them - no argument there - the real question though, is Why is that?

Im going to go out on a limb and suggest that its more to do with how he is managed and played, than it is a player in isolation just not performing.

Grays_1890 said:
I also think no crisis is as big as being made out? I have never worked in an office where everyone gets on, often have it out with my boss and its always sometimes for the better. Same probably for Woodward and Jose, maybe not, who knows but what we do know is the Press love it, cling to it and blow it all out of all proportion.
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All depends on characters. You and I could well have a real ding dong over something, air our views, find a resolution and move on with no hard feelings.

Do you think Mourinho has that in him?

Pure speculation, of course, but I just dont see him as the type.

I think he is more likely to pout, sulk, and generally be a bellend until he gets things his own way.


jts1882 said:
I'm hesitant to put Mourinho in the unable to adapt category because he seems to have undergone a personality change. His failures seem more personal and less related to how he manages players. It might be the same end result, but somehow different.
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I think he is unable to adapt, and that his personality change is related. What used to work for him, no longer does, and unsurprisingly he has become more aggressive and aggitated and generally miserable as a result. IMO.

He isnt doing anything with Utd he didnt at Chelsea. Well, save for one thing, at Chelsea he had the players on side.

I think the intensity with which he works, the animosity - "the world is against us" rubbish - the bad feeling he leaves behind everywhere - I think its just accumulated. He goes into jobs with an attitude like he has already been there a while and its spoiling already. He isnt winning the players over for his (short term) push.
 
I do believe that Utd have to get rid of Pogba ( sooner rather then later), i have never got the hype over Pogba and he seems to think that he is the dogs gonads and seems to behave that way. Jose may not be the manager he was but is not being helped by the actions of a player who seems to think he is untouchable.
 
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