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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

braineclipse said:
I think Liverpool need to shoulder some of the blame, the way they dealt with everything going completely into a defensive stand and defending him to the hilt about everything doesn't make it any easier for him to see what he's done wrong. Having 40k people still chant your name, your manager and team mates supporting you all the way just reinforces his feeling that he's the innocent victim in all this and he hasn't changed a bit.
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Most of the blame.

Suarez needed help. What he needed was someone to explain you can't say things like that in England, apologise for what he said, while explaining he didn't realise how such things are understood in England/Europe. He needed someone to handle his PR and spin what he said more favourably. I think this could have avoided the whole inquiry and accompanying fiasco, with him getting a warning. Instead he got the complete support, the tee-shirts, the excuses, the confrontational attack on Evra, and the inevitable ban. Now thinks he is hard done by and thinks he's the victim.

The club also left Dalglish out to dry. He obviously was out of his depth - the tee-shirt - and someone senior at the club needed to diffuse the situation and point out that supporting someone in a racist incident is not good for the image of the club. You would have thought the American owners would have been more aware on this issue.

As for "Johnson is convinced that Suárez’s past misdemeanours are counting against him", well ... yes. If you have a history of cheating and diving you will be considered a cheat and diver. That's not a witch hunt, its natural justice.
 
jts1882 said:
As for "Johnson is convinced that Suárez’s past misdemeanours are counting against him", well ... yes. If you have a history of cheating and diving you will be considered a cheat and diver. That's not a witch hunt, its natural justice.
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Absolutely this. Someone at Liverpool should have told him straight after the first time he dived that this is totally unacceptable and that he has to stop. It's not simply past misdemeanours either - he still does it.

When Suarez kept on diving and cheating and appealing everly decision, he very rightfully received a reputation as a diver and a cheat - because he is a diver and a cheat. I'm glad that the referees see it the same way, and that his cheating now comes back and kicks him in the face. It is fully deserved for disgracing the game as much as he does...and now I'm not even thinking about the racism thing.

He should be suspended for a long time for cheating and diving alone, IMO.
 
thfcsteff said:
He has, and like Wenger, he knows his club inside and out as well as controls it (largely) but what would he do if he had some real money and expectation to deal with? Always thought he was a dark horse for Man U...
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I always think that's a maental argument personally.

If Moyes had more money he'd buy more players for outstanding fees, simple! Like he can only work with inferior players and make them better?
 
Again....on the radio last night the press falling over themselves to feel sorry for the scousers......because they've had so much bad luck.

And we don;t have key injuries either?

All teams can point to injuries.....it's how you manage them and use your squad.

Rodgers really is leading a charmed life
 
jts1882 said:
Most of the blame.

Suarez needed help. What he needed was someone to explain you can't say things like that in England, apologise for what he said, while explaining he didn't realise how such things are understood in England/Europe. He needed someone to handle his PR and spin what he said more favourably. I think this could have avoided the whole inquiry and accompanying fiasco, with him getting a warning. Instead he got the complete support, the tee-shirts, the excuses, the confrontational attack on Evra, and the inevitable ban. Now thinks he is hard done by and thinks he's the victim.

The club also left Dalglish out to dry. He obviously was out of his depth - the tee-shirt - and someone senior at the club needed to diffuse the situation and point out that supporting someone in a racist incident is not good for the image of the club. You would have thought the American owners would have been more aware on this issue.

As for "Johnson is convinced that Suárez’s past misdemeanours are counting against him", well ... yes. If you have a history of cheating and diving you will be considered a cheat and diver. That's not a witch hunt, its natural justice.
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The problem with that is the bloke was playing in Europe for Ajax for four years before moving to Liverpool and knew damn well what is considered socially unacceptable on these shores, I'm not sure how many would have believed any PR spin when you look at the guys history, he's either really stupid or a nasty little man.
 
Huddy said:
The problem with that is the bloke was playing in Europe for Ajax for four years before moving to Liverpool and knew damn well what is considered socially unacceptable on these shores, I'm not sure how many would have believed any PR spin when you look at the guys history, he's either really stupid or a nasty little man.
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Option C: Both
 
Huddy said:
The problem with that is the bloke was playing in Europe for Ajax for four years before moving to Liverpool and knew damn well what is considered socially unacceptable on these shores, I'm not sure how many would have believed any PR spin when you look at the guys history, he's either really stupid or a nasty little man.
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Either way, the club needed to handle it differently. If he is stupid he needs more guidance and if he's a nasty little man then he can be convinced its in his interests to play along with the spun story to avoid a ban. The problem is that everyone at Liverpool behaved the same way as Suarez, an act of collective stupidity. I'm not saying he didn't deserve the ban - as you say, he was four years in Europe so had to know better - but that it was a major distraction and PR disaster for the club. And an avoidable one.

I feel sorry for Dalglish. The aftermath of Hillsborough took a lot out of him, attending a crazy number of funerals and so on. He is a decent man as well as a great player and could have been a great manager without Hillsborough. He didn't know what to do with Suarez, his natural reaction being to defend his player, and that has tarnished his image. To many fans he's remembered as the man who wore the teeshirt to support a racist rather than the man who gave so much of himself to the Hillsborough families.
 
What is wrong at Liverpool? The problems facing Rodgers after nightmare start

After the controversy and emotion of a highly charged occasion at Anfield on Sunday, reality has started to dawn for Liverpool. This has been a unique time on Merseyside and extraordinary circumstances have meant the focus has been drawn away from results.

But after five matches, they are in the bottom three with just two points. It is their worst start since 1911 and Brendan Rodgers finds himself sharing a record with George Patterson, who was appointed in 1928, as a Liverpool manager failing to win any of his first five league games.

As is always the case with Liverpool, there is never a dull moment but, as they approach a crunch sequence of fixtures, Sportsmail looks at some of the issues that the ebullient Rodgers needs to address to get his side climbing the table.

LACK OF DEPTH

The travails Liverpool endured during the transfer window have been well documented but only now are the ramifications of a summer when they moved on nine players really beginning to hit home, as the squad are set to be stretched to breaking point.

It was confirmed on Monday that England Under-21 right back Martin Kelly will effectively miss the remainder of the season after he ruptured cruciate ligaments in the final stages of Sunday’s 2-1 defeat by Manchester United.

Key midfielder Lucas Leiva is still out with a torn thigh muscle, Jonjo Shelvey must serve a three-match ban for his sending off against United, while Fabio Borini will be sidelined for a couple of weeks after suffering serious bone bruising to his ankle.

When you consider that leaves Luis Suarez as the only fit senior striker, it is clear Liverpool’s new scouting department of Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter - who started work two weeks ago - will need to move quickly to have reinforcements ready for the January window.

There was, at least, better news with regard to Daniel Agger. It had initially been feared that the Denmark defender had suffered a problem similar to Kelly’s but his agent Per Steffensen confirmed on Monday that Agger could return within a month.

‘Daniel hasn’t torn any ligaments,’ said Steffensen. ‘It’s very good news. He has got a bruise on his bone behind a knee. It is very sore and a bit swollen, but as soon as that goes down he can come back to training.’

THE PROBLEM WITH LUIS

Suarez is Liverpool’s most potent supply of goals, but he is also their biggest worry. If he was to suffer an injury, it would be difficult to see how they would cope but he is also running the risk of picking up a suspension.

The Uruguayan has already received three yellow cards and there is bemusement among Liverpool’s players about how he is being treated by match officials. Certainly against United he was unlucky not to receive some decisions.

‘I almost guarantee that if Luis was in the position of Antonio Valencia, he wouldn’t have got a penalty,’ said Glen Johnson, who was penalised for a foul on United’s winger.

‘We all know that. Reputations go in front of people, and because Valencia is not known as a diver he gets the decision.

‘I know it is difficult for the referee. Everybody has to do their job. They have to forget who they are looking at.

‘They just have to make the decisions. They can’t let anything from the past affect their decisions. They have to call the shots at the time, regardless of who it is.’

GETTING THE FIRST WIN

The feeling around Liverpool’s squad is that two points are not a fair reflection of how they have played in the opening weeks and, with better fortune, their return from home games against the two Manchester clubs could easily have been six points as opposed to one.

Rodgers has certainly got Liverpool operating with a style that is easy on the eye and he has players like Steven Gerrard, Johnson and Joe Allen to inflict on opponents what he has described as ‘death by football’ but the longer they wait for three points, the more hollow those words will become.

‘If you have watched every one of our games - bar the defeat to Arsenal - we have been the best team,’ Johnson argued. ‘There are a lot more positives than it looks.

‘As soon as we get a little bit of luck, I think we are going to beat someone with a big score. We can say that as much as we like but, really, we have got to get down and do it.’

Those are sentiments that Liverpool’s captain shares.

‘We know how many points we have got and it’s not good enough,’ said Gerrard.

‘But if we keep playing with that effort and determination it will only be a matter of time before we go on a sequence. Not many sides will be able to live with us because we are playing some good stuff.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2208056/Liverpool--needs-change-Brendan-Rodgers.html

Asking questions or making excuses?
 
Being a resident of Liverpool I know a fair few fans and most do completely buy in to Rodgers' ability and ambition for thier club. I'm not sure what it was about Roy that they all hated so much because many seemed to be waiting for him to fail, wheras Rodgers can't do wrong.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Being a resident of Liverpool I know a fair few fans and most do completely buy in to Rodgers' ability and ambition for thier club. I'm not sure what it was about Roy that they all hated so much because many seemed to be waiting for him to fail, wheras Rodgers can't do wrong.
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Something about coming from a mid table club and having a mid table. mentality. Most importantly, he replaced managerial GHod Rafa.
 
Robbo said:
Absolutely this. Someone at Liverpool should have told him straight after the first time he dived that this is totally unacceptable and that he has to stop. It's not simply past misdemeanours either - he still does it.

When Suarez kept on diving and cheating and appealing everly decision, he very rightfully received a reputation as a diver and a cheat - because he is a diver and a cheat. I'm glad that the referees see it the same way, and that his cheating now comes back and kicks him in the face. It is fully deserved for disgracing the game as much as he does...and now I'm not even thinking about the racism thing.

He should be suspended for a long time for cheating and diving alone, IMO.
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Someone like the captain?

Gerrard-dive-258x300.jpg
 
galeforce said:
if he stopped throwing himself to the ground he might get more luck, the one on Sunday is a great example, replays showed it should have been a pen, but his theatrical body movements made it look like a dive, no wonder refs get distracted and miss the true contact

he also needs to stop appealing for absolutely every decision to go his way, the boy that cried wolf and all that
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The Johnny Evans one?

He got the ball.
 
i was swayed by smith and redknapp i suppose, i'm no longer convinced it was a foul

either way the contact made would not result in the head thrash and flop that Suarez performed on his way to the ground
 
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