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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

raboner said:
no personal offense intended mate, but you have come across as a right heartless bastard in this particular thread.

as a mod, what kind of example does it set for the rest of the board? you should give yourself infraction points.
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As I've said above, the families who suffered have all the empathy I'm capable of. It's the ones firing the blame cannon to absolve themselves I have none for.

If they would have the decency to stand up and admit to their part in it then maybe I could find some for them too.
 
thfcsteff said:
No scara, all the police had to do was their jobs properly and they still wouldn't have had anything to do. They failed in fundamental large crowd control. You do not funnel people into an already full-area. if necessary, you hold them back!!!!!
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Come on Steff, you were at matches in the 80s, you know what it was like.

It wasn't as if the fans were forming an orderly queue and slowly walking to the stadium is it?

And yes, all fans of all clubs at that time are guilty for their behaviour, the rest were just lucky it didn't happen to them.
 
Gordinho said:
Careful Jimmy, Scara will be changing your avatar.

Some of the things he posted yesterday amounted to hate crime.
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I don't think I'm the first to dislike an area like Liverpool and I certainly don't think I'll be the last.

Equally, I suspect many from Liverpool would dislike where I live and consider it stuck up etc. I don't think I'd consider it a hate crime if they did though.
 
Vindicated

When told of the responce of some of the posters on this site I had to read them to believe it. The bigots and pondlife just dont get it!!! This could have happened to me and thousands of other Spurs fans at Hillsbrough in 1981, would we be scum? This effect everyone who goes to large public events and people died, some by the failure of the services we pay to protect us. Yet they still cannot look beyond hatred. This is why I originally said I was quitting. Come on have a go at me, you are just as bad as the scum you like to refer to almost anyone fans. You are not Spurs fans you are just vile sub-humans. Good-bye
 
Re: Vindicated

And this needed another thread?

Thought you had gone already anyway?.................didn't we have a multi-page thread saying good-bye the other week?

Hey-ho.
 
glorygloryeze said:
No my point was that it seems churlish to expect any of the families victims who have had mud slung at them for over 20 years ('you've got a victim mentality', 'you're just scum', 'Liverpool fans were/are ALL scum so what does it matter') to have this verdict finaly come out today and then expect them just to walk away and say 'oh i told you so'....well let's just say i doubt ANY of us, especially those who have kids, could do that if they'd lost a loved one - especially a teenage child - at that ground that day.

Yes, i know how scummy footy fans were in those days, especially scouse ones, but if those same 'scum' fans can own up to their part in the Heysel disaster (and erect a plaque at Anfield) i don't see why they should still face "well, they're scummers anyway" comments about Hilsborough.

I hope those at RAWK and other sites don't think those comments represent Spurs fans, and they start an equivalent "What is it about north london ****neys" thread.
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Ok, one more reply from me.

If you go back to my original post on this matter, I stated quite clearly that I did not/would not expect the families to just walk away and accept yesterdays declaration. What I said was IF they now did this, their standing would increase dramatically and they would be viewed as incredibly strong and proud people (which many still don't view them as).

I'm fully aware this is un-likely to happen, and indeed if it was me and my family involved, I very much doubt I could ever walk away. I'm just offering a viewpoint on how they would be received as a group SHOULD this happen.
You seem to think I'm saying this is what they should or must do. I'm not.
 
I think the focus on the the cover-up afterwards is misplaced. I'm not saying it shouldn't be pursued, but that it overshadows what to me seems the bigger question.

I knew about the Spurs crushing incident in 1981 and had ready the blog piece posted earlier. But I didn't know some of the details and similarities between 1981 and 1989. (read chapters 1 & 2 of the summary in the new report). In 1981 there was crushing outside and they opened the exit gate. This created the surge of people into the tunnel and through to the central pens. The same happened in 1989. The differences were that in 1981 there were police diverting people from the tunnel to the side pens, there was an escape from the central pen to the side pens, later fenced off, and the police opened the gates at the front to let fans on the pitch.

I hadn't realised that Hillsborough was taken off the FA Cup semifinal list for six years. Somehow it got reinstated in 1987 when there were more problems, which reoccurred in 1988. From what was known there is no way they should have being holding an FA Cup semi-final there in 1989. So for me the big question is why was Hillsborough consider after the previous events?

The external crush at the Leppings Lane end is caused by it being the route of entry for all the fans of one club, not just those in the end terrace, but also those in the side stands. It was well know that there were insufficient turnstiles to handle the numbers. They knew that opening the exit gate to relieve the pressure had caused the crushing incident in 1981 and had since fenced off the central pens. They knew the slope of the tunnel made it particularly unsafe and just exacerbated the surge into the central pens. After 1981 there should have been no FA Cup semi-finals at Hillsborough. After 1987 and 1988 it should have been even clearer. The people who made the decision to readmit Hillsborough to the FA Cup semi-final list are the ones culpable for the deaths in 1989, as are the people who ignored the warnings from 1987 and 1988, as are the people who refused to reduce the 10,000 capacity.

These people made decisions that killed people. The focus on the cover-up is protecting them.
 
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ArcspacE said:
When are the TRUTH reports from Heysel and Athens coming out, just out of interest?
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Typically provocative, unhelpful, ill thought out comment from some prat on a forum...in this case some prat who has nothing better to do then spend most of his days winding people up and acting like his views and opinions are in some way superior to everyone else's. Arguing the toss on where Dembele's best position is is one thing but comments like the one above are pathetic.
 
Crawley said:
All respect mate, but that is a little naive.

Today is all about exposing the authorities, quite rightly. But having lived through that era, I know full well what football "fans" were like back then, and trust me, a lot of them were certainly no angels. I'm sure that was the case that day too.
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Although separate incidents, people conveniently forget Liverpool's other indents on the continent. And as you said, the majority of football fans wer hardly angels in those days - let's not forget our own fans rioting in Rotterdam! I see the point that Scara is making - the victim's families deserve some reprisal and justice for the despicable cover up of the incident. But those Scousers going round acting the victims for anything that happens to their club need to wise up - they can be blamed for certain events.

The main thing is that they don't seem to learn. Even when they mourn 96 of their own that died 23 years ago - they still try to get into the Olympic Stadium in Athens without tickets etc. Double standards.

I wasn't there on that day, but there have been reports of opening up gate C because of trouble that was ensuing outside with over-crowding etc. How reliable this is? I don't know - could have been a cover-up by he forces to blame the Liverpool fans.
 
Park Lane James said:
I wasn't there on that day, but there have been reports of opening up gate C because of trouble that was ensuing outside with over-crowding etc. How reliable this is? I don't know - could have been a cover-up by he forces to blame the Liverpool fans.
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This was clearly dealt with by the Taylor report twenty years ago and again by the new one.

Gate C was opened to relieve congestion outside, but the congestion was due to shortcomings in the approach and number of turnstiles, not due to fans turning up late or behaving badly. The reports that this was forced open by drunken fans was an admitted lie by Duckworth, the policeman in charge. The stories about drunken fans were initiated by briefings by senior police and an MP to a Sheffield news agency who passed it on to the national papers. The coronor also added to the alcohol story by focusing on blood alcohol levels which are illegal while driving but hardly unusual for a football match (or opera come to that).

See summary of chapter 12 (p25): http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1213/hc05/0581/0581.pdf
 
Yeah, thought that was the case. With regards to the congestion - surely it was a case of management of the gates rather than the number of turnstiles? After all, the police control box has access to cameras over the pens and can see when they are up to capacity. Comunication from the control box to ground level was slow and ensured that thw wrong gate was opened. The upper tier blocks and pens 1 and 4 were relatively quiet compared to the two central pens. Of course, fans arriving late exacerbated the over-crowding outside.
 
ArcspacE said:
When are the TRUTH reports from Heysel and Athens coming out, just out of interest?
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So Liverpool fans deserved to die at Hillsborough because some fans were responsible for Heysel and Athens?

So when Spurs fans rioted in Feyenoord in 74, that meant that had some Spurs died at Hillsborough in 1981 they deserved it? Including the kids and other fans who were not at Feyenoord?

Is that why they should get no sympathy - because of Heysel? But what if the 96 fans who died at Hillsborough were not in anyway linked to Heysel?
 
Returner said:
So Liverpool fans deserved to die at Hillsborough because some fans were responsible for Heysel and Athens?

So when Spurs fans rioted in Feyenoord in 74, that meant that had some Spurs died at Hillsborough in 1981 they deserved it? Including the kids and other fans who were not at Feyenoord?

Is that why they should get no sympathy - because of Heysel? But what if the 96 fans who died at Hillsborough were not in anyway linked to Heysel?
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Why is Heysel never mentioned as much and what about the Bradford fire? Because Bradford City are a small club and had to deal with their own heartbreaking situation in-house. No one ever mentions that do they. 56 people died there.
 
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