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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

jimmyb said:
Some of the comments on here today about the city of Liverpool, Liverpool fans, the events of that terrible day and the ensuing 23 years of lies and cover up are disgraceful.

As Returner points out, there but for the grace of GHod.........

One further thing: one of the 96 was a Spurs fan - a teenaged girl. So even if your hatred of Liverpool has warped you beyond repair can you not at least show a bit of fudging respect on her behalf?
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Completely agree Jimmy. It's amazing what football and certain rivalries do to people.
 
glorygloryeze said:
And actually what evidence is there that ANY fan actions were to blame for the deaths? Just asking for reference
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All respect mate, but that is a little naive.

Today is all about exposing the authorities, quite rightly. But having lived through that era, I know full well what football "fans" were like back then, and trust me, a lot of them were certainly no angels. I'm sure that was the case that day too.
 
Crawley said:
All respect mate, but that is a little naive.

Today is all about exposing the authorities, quite rightly. But having lived through that era, I know full well what football "fans" were like back then, and trust me, a lot of them were certainly no angels. I'm sure that was the case that day too.
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Well enlighten me; that's what i'm asking for: details of what the scouse fans did on the day and how those actions led to the deaths; i.e details not shown to be the fantasy of corrupt officials.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Well enlighten me; that's what i'm asking for: details of what the scouse fans did on the day and how those actions led to the deaths; i.e details not shown to be the fantasy of corrupt officials.
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You're missing the point.

None of us has those details. It is unlikely anyone from that day would have "details". I'm saying that it is likely that the actions of some of those fans contributed towards the eventual outcome.
Were you around at football matches in the 80s? Are you aware of what Liverpool fans (and Everton for that matter) were actually like?
Trust me, some of the worst.

But we stray from the main issue today. I have no intention of taking this off-topic. And as already stated, today is about the guilt of those involved in the cover up. I doubt we will ever know the FULL truth, and will be surprised if anyone ever gets brought to account for what went on.
 
Crawley said:
You're missing the point.

None of us has those details. It is unlikely anyone from that day would have "details". I'm saying that it is likely that the actions of some of those fans contributed towards the eventual outcome.
Were you around at football matches in the 80s? Are you aware of what Liverpool fans (and Everton for that matter) were actually like?
Trust me, some of the worst.

But we stray from the main issue today. I have no intention of taking this off-topic. And as already stated, today is about the guilt of those involved in the cover up. I doubt we will ever know the FULL truth, and will be surprised if anyone ever gets brought to account for what went on.
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No my point was that it seems churlish to expect any of the families victims who have had mud slung at them for over 20 years ('you've got a victim mentality', 'you're just scum', 'Liverpool fans were/are ALL scum so what does it matter') to have this verdict finaly come out today and then expect them just to walk away and say 'oh i told you so'....well let's just say i doubt ANY of us, especially those who have kids, could do that if they'd lost a loved one - especially a teenage child - at that ground that day.

Yes, i know how scummy footy fans were in those days, especially scouse ones, but if those same 'scum' fans can own up to their part in the Heysel disaster (and erect a plaque at Anfield) i don't see why they should still face "well, they're scummers anyway" comments about Hilsborough.

I hope those at RAWK and other sites don't think those comments represent Spurs fans, and they start an equivalent "What is it about north london ****neys" thread.
 
scaramanga said:
How about a comprimise - I'll change your avatar for you:
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no personal offense intended mate, but you have come across as a right heartless bastard in this particular thread.

as a mod, what kind of example does it set for the rest of the board? you should give yourself infraction points.
 
jimmyb said:
Some of the comments on here today about the city of Liverpool, Liverpool fans, the events of that terrible day and the ensuing 23 years of lies and cover up are disgraceful.

As Returner points out, there but for the grace of GHod.........

One further thing: one of the 96 was a Spurs fan - a teenaged girl. So even if your hatred of Liverpool has warped you beyond repair can you not at least show a bit of fudging respect on her behalf?
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Right-wing scumbag shіtсunts will always be determined to stick to their right-wing scumbag shіtсunt views, even if they've had the equivalent of a ten-ton fuсking weight dropped on them. They wouldn't dare open their mouths if it had been Spurs fans involved.
 
glorygloryeze said:
No my point was that it seems churlish to expect any of the families victims who have had mud slung at them for over 20 years ('you've got a victim mentality', 'you're just scum', 'Liverpool fans were/are ALL scum so what does it matter') to have this verdict finaly come out today and then expect them just to walk away and say 'oh i told you so'....well let's just say i doubt ANY of us, especially those who have kids, could do that if they'd lost a loved one - especially a teenage child - at that ground that day.

Yes, i know how scummy footy fans were in those days, especially scouse ones, but if those same 'scum' fans can own up to their part in the Heysel disaster (and erect a plaque at Anfield) i don't see why they should still face "well, they're scummers anyway" comments about Hilsborough.

I hope those at RAWK and other sites don't think those comments represent Spurs fans, and they start an equivalent "What is it about north london ****neys" thread.
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What's worse is plenty of people on here were quick to condemn Chelsea fans for their disgraceful behaviour at Wembley a few months ago, and rightly so by the way, but it's fine for Spurs fans to denigrate Liverpool fans.
 
Returner said:
I was at Hillsborough in 1981, no Spurs fan should show such ignorance... I'm sure plenty of us had had a few beers too, maybe some did not have tickets, would the littles one at the front deserve to die as a result?

[video=youtube;jtzHVe2mEN0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtzHVe2mEN0&feature=youtu.be[/video]
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Haven't read though this thread today, but I was also there and I agree.
The only reason it didn't happen with us was because the ref told the police to let people come over because he could see what was happening, and the police did not try to overherd into a single pen.

Don't care about the gonads, the bottom line is those 96 people who died, and their families, deserve the truth.
 
scaramanga said:
No, of course they didn't.

You lot need to shoulder some of the blame though.
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Nope.
Sorry.
You do not expect to go to a football match, be funneled into an already over-full pen and then have police not understand WTF is going on/be unable to control the situation outside.
 
scaramanga said:
Ah, sorry - yes I was. Misread your post entirely and thought you were talking about "the" Hillsborough.

I agree that something similar could have happened to Spurs fans and that, again, it's partly a fan problem and partly a police problem. I'd like to think that Spurs fans wouldn't blame the entire world, absolve themselves and then bang on about it forever afterwards had we been unlucky enough.
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I'm grateful that 96 people aren't dead so as that becomes a potential reality scara!!!!
 
Jordinho said:
It was partly their fault though. I'm willing to bet many of them didn't have tickets, but thought they could sneak in somehow. The exact same happened in Athens with fake tickets, but thanks to modern technology the ones with genuine tickets were left stranded outside the stadium as their seat was already occupied.

None of the parties involved wanted this to happen, but events combined to create the worst possible outcome.
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LOL. At the 81 Cup Final, there was a bloke in block D who was letting people thru the turnstiles for a fiver!!!!! There were at least 110,000 in there. I was so worried about being crushed (had just ben to hillsboro too) that I sat up on the back ledge where the wall met the roof. It was fudging mental down below me.
 
scaramanga said:
Let's apply that quote to something else.

"It's not the fault of the thieves, all burglars steal stuff. It needs policing"

Just because everyone did/does it, it doesn't make it right - neither does it make the perpetrators blameless. I agree the police should have done better, but they wouldn't have had to do anything at all were it not for the Liverpool fans.
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No scara, all the police had to do was their jobs properly and they still wouldn't have had anything to do. They failed in fundamental large crowd control. You do not funnel people into an already full-area. if necessary, you hold them back!!!!!
 
Crawley said:
Well, they shouldn't pale into insignificance. Guilt is guilt.

I detest corruption, and wrong-doing against the person. But you can not reasonably hunt down one guilty party without hunting down the other.
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What's 'guilt' here mate? Getting tinkled before the match? Running into the stadium tinkled? As you well know, if that equates 'guilt' then the entire '80s football culture is guilty. Did Liverpool supporters stop police from opening up other pens? Did they punch stewards and police who tried to divert them other areas? Nope...
Sorry mate, they were just supporters.
n.b. this is a general reply to a few people mate, not just you, event though it, err, says 'mate' singular...but you know worrimean...!!!!
 
jimmyb said:
Some of the comments on here today about the city of Liverpool, Liverpool fans, the events of that terrible day and the ensuing 23 years of lies and cover up are disgraceful.

As Returner points out, there but for the grace of GHod.........

One further thing: one of the 96 was a Spurs fan - a teenaged girl. So even if your hatred of Liverpool has warped you beyond repair can you not at least show a bit of fudging respect on her behalf?
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Careful Jimmy, Scara will be changing your avatar.

Some of the things he posted yesterday amounted to hate crime.
 
jimmyb said:
Some of the comments on here today about the city of Liverpool, Liverpool fans, the events of that terrible day and the ensuing 23 years of lies and cover up are disgraceful.

As Returner points out, there but for the grace of GHod.........

One further thing: one of the 96 was a Spurs fan - a teenaged girl. So even if your hatred of Liverpool has warped you beyond repair can you not at least show a bit of fudging respect on her behalf?
Click to expand...

There's a massive difference between having sympathy for the families and just swallowing the "everyone else is to blame" line from those that were there.

The families have my sympathy, those who refuse to accept any responsibility don't.
 
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