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Is there currently a dearth of "top class football talent" worldwide?

glorygloryeze

glorygloryeze

Jack Jull
An interesting post here by GB suggested that there is: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/commun...d-speculation-thread.8293/page-96#post-828315

Gutter Boy said:
Now is definitely a low point for talent in world football

I wonder if this is the culmination of the X-Box generation reaching adulthood and the decline in grassroots participation (my league has shrunk from 50 to 33 teams in the last 3 years, and another big local league has folded completely this summer) across the developed world?
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Well is there?

Or is it just that natural talent is harder to come by due to:

- the professionalization of the sport (e.g. would George Best get even close to playing for more than 5 years in today's game where less talented but more 'dedicated' players do better)
- moneyball tactics (forcing players to mature at ever younger ages)
- the rise and influence of super-agents (aka super-pimps) and
- the introduction of 'get-big-and-rich-quick' corporate models in many clubs leading to lack of continuity with coaches?

Please discuss....:)
 
The talent is still there, players just aren't allowed to express it any more.
I think a combination of playing in and against rigid systems, a must not lose rather than must win mentality and football becoming a business has strangled flare.

Also, and I maybe mistaken here, but I think when we talk about the greats of the 60s and 70s there an impression that they all played at their peaks at the same time. But really other than pele whose career was longer than most the likes of pele, best, cruyff and maradona never really overlapped.
 
I think the differential in fitness and tactical preperation between players is less

control is the zeitgeist outlook, it's evolutionary process
 
glorygloryeze said:
An interesting post here by GB suggested that there is: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/commun...d-speculation-thread.8293/page-96#post-828315




Well is there?

Or is it just that natural talent is harder to come by due to:

- the professionalization of the sport (e.g. would George Best get even close to playing for more than 5 years in today's game where less talented but more 'dedicated' players do better)
- moneyball tactics (forcing players to mature at ever younger ages)
- the rise and influence of super-agents (aka super-pimps) and
- the introduction of 'get-big-and-rich-quick' corporate models in many clubs leading to lack of continuity with coaches?

Please discuss....:)
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good thread (and point GB)....I'm going to think about this one.
 
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I also think that our exposure to modern moments dilutes them, when I was a kid you could watch the World Cup and the FA cup final, that was your live football, a handful of games a year, I now watch 5/6 a week. Maradona scored an incredible jinking run against England in 86, it's legendary, for all I know he did that repeatedly for Barca and Napoli but I've not seen it, back then we couldn't even read about it. I've seen Messi score similar efforts in La Liga, with half an eye on something else, that I have the opportunity to see such feats regularly lessens their impact. I saw it, whilst chopping veg, rather than reading about it in a tome of Rose tints or hearing the erudition of a radio voice, that has to have a bearing.
 
galeforce said:
I also think that our exposure to modern moments dilutes them, when I was a kid you could watch the World Cup and the FA cup final, that was your live football, a handful of games a year, I now watch 5/6 a week. Maradona scored an incredible jinking run against England in 86, it's legendary, for all I know he did that repeatedly for Barca and Napoli but I've not seen it, back then we couldn't even read about it. I've seen Messi score similar efforts in La Liga, with half an eye on something else, that I have the opportunity to see such feats regularly lessens their impact. I saw it, whilst chopping veg, rather than reading about it in a tome of Rose tints or hearing the erudition of a radio voice, that has to have a bearing.
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Are you a bearded man from Islington?
 
galeforce said:
I don't live in Islington, but we always have a roast on a Sunday evening (no Chich, not that) so I watch football on my iPad whilst cooking
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I actually think its the complete opposite ..

- Ronaldo & Messi quite clearly belong in a conversation of the top tier of all time players
- Zlatan, Aquero, Iniesta, Suarez, Naymar, Robben, Hazard, Pogba, Bale, Mascherano, etc. are current 2nd tier of this generation

Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan's scoring records & titles/cups will exceed any past player. I would argue a lot of that 2nd tier would have been greats in earlier generations.

The difference today (and seen in last year), is the lower to mid tier players are better, better athletically, more technique, greater fitness, more tactically aware, provided better insight into opponents, etc.

Truth is, players from 20 years ago would barely qualify as semi-pro today, common to see overweight players then, smokers, brick diet, not as much focus on specifics like acceleration training (look at Kane & Eriksen's initial acceleration now vs 2-3 years ago). So what you had was exceptional players against poor to mid level players who weren't even able to match that player on speed/fitness/awareness level and the gap was much bigger.

The best haven't gotten any worse, the gap however has shrunk. Leicester, AM, Portugal have all shown that, modern athletes, fit, motivated and well disciplined expose the limitations of football, not limitations of the top players.
 
Raziel said:
I actually think its the complete opposite ..

- Ronaldo & Messi quite clearly belong in a conversation of the top tier of all time players
- Zlatan, Aquero, Iniesta, Suarez, Naymar, Robben, Hazard, Pogba, Bale, Mascherano, etc. are current 2nd tier of this generation

Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan's scoring records & titles/cups will exceed any past player. I would argue a lot of that 2nd tier would have been greats in earlier generations.

The difference today (and seen in last year), is the lower to mid tier players are better, better athletically, more technique, greater fitness, more tactically aware, provided better insight into opponents, etc.

Truth is, players from 20 years ago would barely qualify as semi-pro today, common to see overweight players then, smokers, brick diet, not as much focus on specifics like acceleration training (look at Kane & Eriksen's initial acceleration now vs 2-3 years ago). So what you had was exceptional players against poor to mid level players who weren't even able to match that player on speed/fitness/awareness level and the gap was much bigger.

The best haven't gotten any worse, the gap however has shrunk. Leicester, AM, Portugal have all shown that, modern athletes, fit, motivated and well disciplined expose the limitations of football, not limitations of the top players.
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But each generation is playing against opponents at the top of the game for their generation, so doesn't that even out?

I also just about remember the 1970 World Cup, not for the football but because my dad bought a colour tv to watch it on. These things tint the memory as well. The rolling sport 24hrs a day in 60" HD picture with close ups and multiple angles is now so common and expected now that's it's normal. It's lost the sparkle.
 
glasgowspur said:
Also, and I maybe mistaken here, but I think when we talk about the greats of the 60s and 70s there an impression that they all played at their peaks at the same time. But really other than pele whose career was longer than most the likes of pele, best, cruyff and maradona never really overlapped.
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Good point. I'll add Beckenbauer as one who needs to me mentioned with those players and he and Cruyff will have had some direct rivalry with club and country, but generally they would have been playing at different times and places.

Raziel said:
I actually think its the complete opposite ..

- Ronaldo & Messi quite clearly belong in a conversation of the top tier of all time players
- Zlatan, Aquero, Iniesta, Suarez, Naymar, Robben, Hazard, Pogba, Bale, Mascherano, etc. are current 2nd tier of this generation

Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan's scoring records & titles/cups will exceed any past player. I would argue a lot of that 2nd tier would have been greats in earlier generations.
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Messi and Ronaldo will be on the list of all time greats and could be joined by some of those others.

While agreeing with the general point that there are a good collection of top players, we shouldn't forget that Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Maradona also had some top quality team-mates who could be included in that 2nd tier you mention.
 
Systems rule, players are just parts of a unit, real talent will force it's way through but many players simply do what they are told and can't adapt quick enough to change games. No modern manager would have a player like Blanchflower in their team, he'd be too much a challenge to their authority.
 
Raziel said:
The difference today (and seen in last year), is the lower to mid tier players are better, better athletically, more technique, greater fitness, more tactically aware, provided better insight into opponents, etc.
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Interesting thread.

I tend to agree with this point (see above). Increased professionalisation of all aspects of football in many countries has shrinked the quality gap between the best, second best, third best, etc. players, IMO. It's harder to really stand oit today, because there are more good footballers.
 
the moment any "wunderkid" comes through, the proliferation of wannabe agents, scouts, media exposure, family and friends and the pressure that brings must be having a very negative influence on someone so young, you obviously didn't have round the clock media coverage, smartphones 20 years ago, talent has to be nurtured carefully/
 
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