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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 79 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 86 52.1%
  • Total voters
    165
Gazza said:
That’s a massive generalisation and simply not true I’m sorry. That’s from being of ethnic background
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Your experiences are different to mine then as someone also from an ethnic background. I don't really know how you can state it isn't true though, we all are subject to different things in our lives, what you may not have experienced, others have. Surely it's about us all listening to and appreciating the differences even if it doesn't pertain to us.

The commentator report was a data backed study.
 
fernadez said:
Your experiences are different to mine then as someone also from an ethnic background. I don't really know how you can state it isn't true though, we all are subject to different things in our lives, what you may not have experienced, others have. Surely it's about us all listening to and appreciating the differences even if it doesn't pertain to us.

The commentator report was a data backed study.
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I think your personal experience may not be reflective of general society.

When Micky VDV is commented upon the usual reference is that he is a specimen with pace and power and when Romero farts on the pitch he is known as clumsy and rash … Marc geuhi is often referred to as an intelligent Center back who reads the game well and is a supreme athlete as is Van Dyke etc … I don’t see what’s wrong calling a spade a spade. This is regardless of race. I think people are so quick to generalise and then pick a case in a straw man argument.

Anyway England has come a long long way compared to other countries and it should be applauded and appreciated rather nit picking about what would be ideal, hedonistic or whatever. If you look deep enough and deconstruct every word a case can be made for anything of your agenda is inclined that way. This is not to say a bunch of idiots don’t exist.
 
fernadez said:
Your experiences are different to mine then as someone also from an ethnic background. I don't really know how you can state it isn't true though, we all are subject to different things in our lives, what you may not have experienced, others have. Surely it's about us all listening to and appreciating the differences even if it doesn't pertain to us.

The commentator report was a data backed study.
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In the words of the might Rowen Atkinson "nobody has the right NOT to be offended". Someone else also said "offensive isn't given, it's taken.
 
DTA said:
What ethnic background are you from? I’m also from an ethnic background and I think it’s 100% true.
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It doesn’t matter but I’m from an Indian heritage why?

I have grown up in Hackney with friends and family from various backgrounds, my partner is English and my kids are born here also. I think you see what you want to see in life and like I said people looking for something will eventually find it and have a moment of thinking they were right the whole time.

If I got racially abused tomorrow I wouldn’t say that I live in a racist country.

Going on to the media when the grooming gangs were reported as Asian … they were eventually made to call a spade a spade and say it was the majority of Pakistani Muslim men, due to pressure from Asians and the facts. Our media is not the best but due to politics and not trying to offend people has at times gone too far.
 
RigorMortis said:
I think it’s a slippery slope here and there are in my opinion of degrees of abuse. As someone of indian origin i always feel there is a degree of inherent prejudice instilled in all of us but there is a long line between ignorance and hatred.

For example, when i still lived in England and even now in Singapore you have common instance of what i would class as ignorant comments such as “ The where are you really from” when i tell someone Im from walthamstow. To me that’s not hatred, that’s ignorance.

The comments attributed towards Rashford, Saka and Sancho after the euro finals were hatred, the first thing these haters jumped upon was the colour of their skin, that they aren’t really english.

The comments on Ange based on his nationality are ignorance, the view that Australia is some sort of footballing backwater and therefore what does he know. I don’t think it’s massively widespread but it is there, even on some of my spurs what’s app chats there are people who call him Harold Bishop. It’s not a great look but it’s also not hatred in my opinion.

In both cases, these insults have come based on a negative football outcome, both highlight instilled preconceptions and prejudice but as i said one is a display of hatred and one is more ignorance

You might wonder why make a differentiation at all, purely because in my experience people who display ignorance can in the vast majority of cases be open to having their view challenged and changed, if people find it offensive; those who display hatred, it’s far less likely.

Totally agree on the Levy view, again i am sure there are isolated incidents where people use the perception of his religion and allign it to his stewardship of the club but i think that’s few and far between and nowhere near the above two examples. I am not Levy’s biggest fan but it has absolutely nothing to do with his religion
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As a home and away England support at the time who went to every one of the England Euro games in 2021, do you know what I found the toughest things? It was the following:

Southgate: His one dimensional tactics, having by far the best squad in that competition. The way he let himself get owned by managers like Mancini. The way he put a total water carrying number 10 (Mount) in to just run and run because of our lazy captain didn't put in a shift. Letting our LB play through 90 mins and extra time in a semi-final and then not even putting the natural LB backup in the 22 man squad for the final. Then seeing our first team LB cramping up and having to stay on handing the advantage back. Then having an in-form centre forward in C-Lewin on the bench and not even using him for the penalties and other parts of the tournament. The final was as farcical as the Moscow Croatia game tactically.

Kane: watching the least effort I've ever seen from an England player over an entire tournament. Sitting in the stands behind a model senior pro like Kyle Walker and watching the body language and arm gestures towards his captain. Listening to an entire England stand groan at his efforts levels against the Auld Enemy as a player as average as Grant Holt owned him. Seeing Kane play 120 mins against two 35 year olds and never once running at them. Just strolling aorund like a pre-season, probably thinking of his next season at Emirates Marketing Project. Hendo tried his best from the bench to lead that young team. Kane isn't a captain.

The referees: just like Spurs have had at times (e.g. Man Utd FA Cup semi-final with Taylor), those UEFA refs were awful. The Chielini incident was just one example of some horrendous decisions. With a ref using the laws of the game we would have strolled both the Crotia Moscow and the Italy Wembley games. Referees change history, but it is never spoken about.

Anyway, the reason I write this is as a home and away England supporter, I felt devastated for those kids that missed the penalties. All the genuine supporters did. I felt angry at the manager and captain who didn't deserve to win that tournament at all. Most of all, I felt angry that the country stopped talking about FOOTBALL for the reasons you're talking about above. We let the racist idiots on the socials get the front page, not the football topics we should have been talking about. It was probably the only time in my lifetime that my country should have won a tournament. It was ours to lose.

After a very long stint as a home and away England supporter, that Eng vs Italy final was my last game.
 
veryoldspur said:
In the words of the might Rowen Atkinson "nobody has the right NOT to be offended". Someone else also said "offensive isn't given, it's taken.
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Never said I was offended, was just commentating on my experiences.

Furthermore I don't think either of those stand up when you're being threatened with physical violence.
I agree that people are too easily offended and being offended doesn't mean that you're right. However using that as a argument that what is said doesn't matter is abit of a slipperly slope in my opinon and passes the onus on the recipent rather than adressing what is being said in the first place.

As a black man, my experience isn't reflective of general society no, that's because I'm a minority.
 
Gazza said:
It doesn’t matter but I’m from an Indian heritage why?

I have grown up in Hackney with friends and family from various backgrounds, my partner is English and my kids are born here also. I think you see what you want to see in life and like I said people looking for something will eventually find it and have a moment of thinking they were right the whole time.

If I got racially abused tomorrow I wouldn’t say that I live in a racist country.

Going on to the media when the grooming gangs were reported as Asian … they were eventually made to call a spade a spade and say it was the majority of Pakistani Muslim men, due to pressure from Asians and the facts. Our media is not the best but due to politics and not trying to offend people has at times gone too far.
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I also grew up in Hackney, which is very diverse, I didn’t experience any racism there either not that I noticed anyway.

But once I started working, mainly East London and Essex. Yeah there is racism, some directed at my race I’m Turkish Cypriot (the Turkish bit) but never to me directly… when I called it out, the excuses come out, I was drunk, I didn’t mean you, I had bad experiences with Turks etc.

But a lot more directed at other races, again when I called it out, “I’m not woke” “ I don’t mean it in a racist way” “they can call me a Honkey/Cracker” (yes someone actually use the word Honky. “He is a Jew why can’t I say he is”

Muslim women having their headscarves pulled off. People telling other to go back home.

Where are you really from? Although I have some understanding with this as It could sometimes be genuine curiosity about someone’s ethnicity. But sometimes it’s not.

And that’s just what I hear and see, what’s it like when I’m not around?

I’m in WhatsApp group with a lot of the people I grew up with (mainly black, but some Asian and Turkish) we had this conversation a couple of years back. All of them experienced racism in one form or other.

So if you haven’t, then you are lucky and long may you continue to be such. But yeah there is a lot of racism out there.

Don’t get me wrong I love this country (London mainly) and am appreciative of the opportunity it has given me and my family. And as a whole I don’t think it’s Racist. But there is racism and racists out there, and as an ideology it’s getting stronger and more brazen… but I think that’s the case across the west.

I was speaking to a successful Asian woman and we came on to the subject of of both our fathers talking about an “exit plan” and “they can kick us out of this country if they want”
We both agreed that we laughed at that growing up but now it really doesn’t seem that far fetched, and maybe there is something in the way both our fathers (who never and don’t know each other) thought

That in itself is sad.
 
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fernadez said:
Never said I was offended, was just commentating on my experiences.

Furthermore I don't think either of those stand up when you're being threatened with physical violence.
I agree that people are too easily offended and being offended doesn't mean that you're right. However using that as a argument that what is said doesn't matter is abit of a slipperly slope in my opinon and passes the onus on the recipent rather than adressing what is being said in the first place.

As a black man, my experience isn't reflective of general society no, that's because I'm a minority.
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99.9% of white people in the UK have no issue with colour or race, they struggle with the conflict between cultures, and I am not afraid to admit to that myself. The comment made by Rowen Atkinson doesn't refer to abusive behaviour, it addresses anyone's right to free speech. Perhaps I should have mentioned that. Now let's get back to praying for Ange's departure
 
DTA said:
I also grew up in Hackney, which is very diverse, I didn’t experience any racism there either not that I noticed anyway.

But once I started working, mainly East London and Essex. Yeah there is racism, some directed at my race I’m Turkish Cypriot (the Turkish bit) but never to me directly… when I called it out, the excuses come out, I was drunk, I didn’t mean you, I had bad experiences with Turks etc.

But a lot more directed at other races, again when I called it out, “I’m not woke” “ I don’t mean it in a racist way” “they can call me a Honkey/Cracker” (yes someone actually use the word Honky. “He is a Jew why can’t I say he is”

Muslim women having their headscarves pulled off. People telling other to go back home.

Where are you really from? Although I have some understanding with this as It could sometimes be genuine curiosity about someone’s ethnicity. But sometimes it’s not.

And that’s just what I hear and see, what’s it like when I’m not around?

I’m in WhatsApp group with a lot of the people I grew up with (mainly black, but some Asian and Turkish) we had this conversation a couple of years back. All of them experienced racism in one form or other.

So if you haven’t, then you are lucky and long may you continue to be such. But yeah there is a lot of racism out there.

Don’t get me wrong I love this country (London mainly) and am appreciative of the opportunity it has given me and my family. And as a whole I don’t think it’s Racist. But there is racism and racists out there, and as an ideology it’s getting stronger and more brazen… but I think that’s the case across the west.

I was speaking to a successful Asian woman and we came on to the subject of of both our fathers talking about an “exit plan” and “they can kick us out of this country if they want”
We both agreed that we laughed at that growing up but now it really doesn’t seem that far fetched, and maybe there is something in the way both our fathers (who never and don’t know each other) thought

That in itself is sad.
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My best friend is Anglo Asian, and his name is Barry. He was asked what his real name is, and he replied, "F me, if I were going to make up a name for myself it wouldn't be Barry" LOL

In regards to your post, it's best to let water run off a ducks back. Programs such as Love Thy Neighbour and Till Death Us To Part, were made to combat racism, unfortunately the woke were stupid to see that!
 
DTA said:
I also grew up in Hackney, which is very diverse, I didn’t experience any racism there either not that I noticed anyway.

But once I started working, mainly East London and Essex. Yeah there is racism, some directed at my race I’m Turkish Cypriot (the Turkish bit) but never to me directly… when I called it out, the excuses come out, I was drunk, I didn’t mean you, I had bad experiences with Turks etc.

But a lot more directed at other races, again when I called it out, “I’m not woke” “ I don’t mean it in a racist way” “they can call me a Honkey/Cracker” (yes someone actually use the word Honky. “He is a Jew why can’t I say he is”

Muslim women having their headscarves pulled off. People telling other to go back home.

Where are you really from? Although I have some understanding with this as It could sometimes be genuine curiosity about someone’s ethnicity. But sometimes it’s not.

And that’s just what I hear and see, what’s it like when I’m not around?

I’m in WhatsApp group with a lot of the people I grew up with (mainly black, but some Asian and Turkish) we had this conversation a couple of years back. All of them experienced racism in one form or other.

So if you haven’t, then you are lucky and long may you continue to be such. But yeah there is a lot of racism out there.

Don’t get me wrong I love this country (London mainly) and am appreciative of the opportunity it has given me and my family. And as a whole I don’t think it’s Racist. But there is racism and racists out there, and as an ideology it’s getting stronger and more brazen… but I think that’s the case across the west.

I was speaking to a successful Asian woman and we came on to the subject of of both our fathers talking about an “exit plan” and “they can kick us out of this country if they want”
We both agreed that we laughed at that growing up but now it really doesn’t seem that far fetched, and maybe there is something in the way both our fathers (who never and don’t know each other) thought

That in itself is sad.
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I have experienced racism but not as much. However the country has improved as has society. But social media allows such people inclined that way to voice their opinions which sound louder than the majority.

I just don’t agree with the pile in that calling Ange an Aussie whatever is racist. It’s just how people talk without the malicious intent. Some may but I don’t think it’s this massive thing. Like I’ve written about over these two days. The intent or the simplistic view that it’s all racist.
 
I just wish before our most important game of the season this could have been left alone, there's little new written and people have made their mind up, there'II but plenty of opportunities after tonight.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I just wish before our most important game of the season this could have been left alone, there's little new written and people have made their mind up, there'II but plenty of opportunities after tonight.
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The only reason it's our most important game of the season is because we have nothing else to play for. We lose we are back to the sugar years with season over in march.
 
Lilbaz said:
The only reason it's our most important game of the season is because we have nothing else to play for. We lose we are back to the sugar years with season over in march.
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This is why if we get knocked out tonight (which I don't think we will be) why Ange should go. We need to recruit a new manager as soon as possible so they can ascertain and analyse the squad. For a while we may just have to put up with Mason, but seriously, can he be any worse than Ange?
 
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