Ange in or out?

[Bedfordspurs]

The concert money is coming in anyway. You finish 7th or maybe 8th and you’re in Europe.

The suggestion was that we write off the league. We do that, we could finish down in that sort of position. You also have to remember that we have a chairman who apparently fell out with Jose and fired him because Jose wanted to sacrifice a league game and focus on the cup final.

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. Levy has a reputation of pay for performance which basically means “you’ll get a percentage of whatever money we take in”. You’d therefore have to imagine that any of Ange’s bonus pay is more heavily weighted towards a higher league finish than winning a cup.

It’s an interesting potential dynamic. Fans’ biggest criticism of Levy has been how he prioritises economics over trophies. That theory may be put to the test in the coming weeks and months.

I haven’t suggested we write off the league
Others may have
That’s nuts
But we have to prioritise and find the balance with the issues we have had
These injuries ain’t gonna go away either so that’s another focal point
Ange IMO does care for money as he is already well paid
He does however care about legacy and glory
We have had a chairman who did fire a guy before a cup final, a cup final we would have won if there was competent ref. We don’t know if it was because if sacrificing a game, or not wanting to pay a bonus or other things, but that doesn’t stop speculation. It’s not a move I would have made, that’s for sure

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This isn't about money anymore. The club in all reasonable forecasting will have written off European football for next season

Nor is it, "we can't find another manager" there are plenty of basket case clubs with way less money that find managers

This is about two things
- Is this just a stumble in a rebuild process and
- Will we get to the cup final

My perspective, if Pool had smashed us in the cup first leg, he'd be gone already

But they didn’t
And I’d guess the clubs focus has always been on the europa because it’s the lower level of cup we’re in with regards to the opposition and the most games so revenue

 

[Raziel]

We have had a chairman who did fire a guy before a cup final, a cup final we would have won if there was competent ref. We don’t know if it was because if sacrificing a game, or not wanting to pay a bonus or other things, but that doesn’t stop speculation. It’s not a move I would have made, that’s for sure

It's a very weird move, but if you take Simon Jordon's view (see quote), i.e. since the intention would have been to fire him anyway, if he did manage to win he would have legal claims against the club beyond his big payoff ->
“If they fired him then, not only would he get his contract paid off, is there a possibility, like Antonio Conte, that he would then sue Tottenham for unfair dismissal? On the basis that he had done precisely what he was brought in to do. “Conte did sue Chelsea. Not only did he get the money he was owed by Chelsea for the rest of his contract irrespective of the fact he was working for someone else… he also got another big bag of money

But they didn’t
And I’d guess the clubs focus has always been on the europa because it’s the lower level of cup we’re in with regards to the opposition and the most games so revenue

I don't think so, as I said, get knocked out of 2nd leg, the club isn't going to bet on FA (away to Villa) and a long ass runway to Europa, It's league cup timing now for him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's a very weird move, but if you take Simon Jordon's view (see quote), i.e. since the intention would have been to fire him anyway, if he did manage to win he would have legal claims against the club beyond his big payoff ->
“If they fired him then, not only would he get his contract paid off, is there a possibility, like Antonio Conte, that he would then sue Tottenham for unfair dismissal? On the basis that he had done precisely what he was brought in to do. “Conte did sue Chelsea. Not only did he get the money he was owed by Chelsea for the rest of his contract irrespective of the fact he was working for someone else… he also got another big bag of money



I don't think so, as I said, get knocked out of 2nd leg, the club isn't going to bet on FA (away to Villa) and a long ass runway to Europa, It's league cup timing now for him.

We will see
Villa away doesn’t actually scare me like it does others
We have great record there and they are very up and down as a side. Their week of before hand will help them but we may have some players back
Pool away is no measure of any spurs manager especially not in a second leg of a cup and the club will know that

 

[Yiddo]

I think if we go out of the cups in the next few weeks then he is done.

 

[metalgear]

I think if we go out of the cups in the next few weeks then he is done.

then its mason to caretake until the end of the season - no one would risk relegation

on the other hand i heard that arteta might be out of a job soon

 

[DeanoAustin]

I haven’t suggested we write off the league
Others may have
That’s nuts
But we have to prioritise and find the balance with the issues we have had
These injuries ain’t gonna go away either so that’s another focal point
Ange IMO does care for money as he is already well paid
He does however care about legacy and glory
We have had a chairman who did fire a guy before a cup final, a cup final we would have won if there was competent ref. We don’t know if it was because if sacrificing a game, or not wanting to pay a bonus or other things, but that doesn’t stop speculation. It’s not a move I would have made, that’s for sure

I have to say, I find it fairly distasteful that the difference in prize money for finishing 16th rather than 17th in the league is more than you get for winning both the League Cup and FA Cup. No wonder clubs put out weak sides in those competitions early on.

 

[DubSpur]

The concert money is coming in anyway. You finish 7th or maybe 8th and you’re in Europe.

The suggestion was that we write off the league. We do that, we could finish down in that sort of position. You also have to remember that we have a chairman who apparently fell out with Jose and fired him because Jose wanted to sacrifice a league game and focus on the cup final.

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. Levy has a reputation of pay for performance which basically means “you’ll get a percentage of whatever money we take in”. You’d therefore have to imagine that any of Ange’s bonus pay is more heavily weighted towards a higher league finish than winning a cup.

It’s an interesting potential dynamic. Fans’ biggest criticism of Levy has been how he prioritises economics over trophies. That theory may be put to the test in the coming weeks and months.

Levy prioritises the league because it means European football. Being consistent in the league reduces relying on one off games to get you into Europe via a cup. We're not getting into Europe via the league this season so the priority has to shift to the cups once we don't get dragged down further in the league. The next two league games are winnable and the focus should be on them to give us a buffer and then switch to focusing on the cups.

 

[Legohamster]

I think if we go out of the cups in the next few weeks then he is done.

Think our lack of action so far (can change) shows the club doesn't really back him beyond the next few weeks

For all the comments about the club not doing business in Jan we do normally get a couple in, Kulu/Bent/Dragon/Bergval/Porro in recent years

 

[Legohamster]

Levy prioritises the league because it means European football. Being consistent in the league reduces relying on one off games to get you into Europe via a cup. We're not getting into Europe via the league this season so the priority has to shift to the cups once we don't get dragged down further in the league. The next two league games are winnable and the focus should be on them to give us a buffer and then switch to focusing on the cups.

It's also where you get most revenue , start stinking out the league and you are not selling out that ground.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Think our lack of action so far (can change) shows the club doesn't really back him beyond the next few weeks

For all the comments about the club not doing business in Jan we do normally get a couple in, Kulu/Bent/Dragon/Bergval/Porro in recent years

I think we have irons in fires but are waiting until the end if the market to avoid getting gazumped
If we got for Dorgu for example what is stopping united gazumping us

 

[Yiddo]

then its mason to caretake until the end of the season - no one would risk relegation

on the other hand i heard that arteta might be out of a job soon

I think they have learnt their lesson and will be talking to managers now just in case.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think we have rooms in fires but are waiting until the end if the market to avoid getting gazumped
If we got for Dorgu for example what is stopping united gazumping us

Sounds like the new stadium hasn't changed much for us then? That's a phrase that reminds me of excuses brought up in any window between 2002 and 2018...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sounds like the new stadium hasn't changed much for us then? That's a phrase that reminds me of excuses brought up in any window between 2002 and 2018...

No
It’s all about competition
We went early on kinky and got that done because we could and stopped Napoli getting him
We did simialr to get gray in and also Bergvall and Drago
But we can’t compete with some other clubs because we’re not state owned or stupid in some cases
I’m just speculating as to why we may not have a player in
You can make up your own mind on that of course

 

[glorygloryeze]

No
It’s all about competition
We went early on kinky and got that done because we could and stopped Napoli getting him
We did simialr to get gray in and also Bergvall and Drago
But we can’t compete with some other clubs because we’re not state owned or stupid in some cases
I’m just speculating as to why we may not have a player in
You can make up your own mind on that of course

We have shown in the past we can get a player before Man Utd if we really want to and 'sell our vision' well. Man Utd have PSR issues to contend with too (it's why the likes of Mainoo and Garnacho are up for sale as they need to sell before they can buy), so this idea that we aren't getting players in ebcause we are scared of being gazumed doesn't add up to scrutiny.

What's more likely is that either:

a) players who we want to sign are watching our form and waiting to see if they can get offers from clubs in better positions (in the league table or in Europe etc)
b) the club aren't willing to put much more money towards a guy that they feel is a dead man walking (i.e. they don't want to do what Man Utd did last summer re Ten Haag..)

 

[glasgowspur]

We have shown in the past we can get a player before Man Utd if we really want to and 'sell our vision' well. Man Utd have PSR issues to contend with too (it's why the likes of Mainoo and Garnacho are up for sale as they need to sell before they can buy), so this idea that we aren't getting players in ebcause we are scared of being gazumed doesn't add up to scrutiny.

What's more likely is that either:

a) players who we want to sign are watching our form and waiting to see if they can get offers from clubs in better positions (in the league table or in Europe etc)
b) the club aren't willing to put much more money towards a guy that they feel is a dead man walking (i.e. they don't want to do what Man Utd did last summer re Ten Haag..)

No doubt we are going to be a hard sell to the quality of players we need.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We have shown in the past we can get a player before Man Utd if we really want to and 'sell our vision' well. Man Utd have PSR issues to contend with too (it's why the likes of Mainoo and Garnacho are up for sale as they need to sell before they can buy), so this idea that we aren't getting players in ebcause we are scared of being gazumed doesn't add up to scrutiny.

What's more likely is that either:

a) players who we want to sign are watching our form and waiting to see if they can get offers from clubs in better positions (in the league table or in Europe etc)
b) the club aren't willing to put much more money towards a guy that they feel is a dead man walking (i.e. they don't want to do what Man Utd did last summer re Ten Haag..)

I’m just using united as a reference
Could be another side
If a player is waiting for a club in a better league table place that’s incredibly short sighted of them … I’d say they are p t the player we would want
I do wonder what money fans think we have to spend in January but sure it will be used no matter what as per your item b.
I did read in teletext that city are spending £150m … why aren’t we

 

[Finney Is Back]

For me it's not a 2-1 loss to Arsenal, it's that regardless of injuries, or stage of the season, or whether players are fresh or fatigued, nobody can tell me that under Ange they rock up to a game or turn the tele on to watch Spurs feeling confident that they know whether they're going to get a fluid, cohesive performance full of chances or goals, or an utter mess where the players don't look like they know what they're supposed to be doing. The injuries may have hindered certain aspects but there are basic things you can do to make the oppositions life hard and your life easier and we so often fail to do those basics under this manager. And when you don't have those basics nailed down on a training pitch to revert back to if the opposition are on one or your having an off day, things can get ragged pretty quickly in the wrong circumstances.

That is true of every manager at Spurs the past quarter of a century plus other than Pochettino and Redknapp

 

[billyiddo]

Think our lack of action so far (can change) shows the club doesn't really back him beyond the next few weeks

For all the comments about the club not doing business in Jan we do normally get a couple in, Kulu/Bent/Dragon/Bergval/Porro in recent years

I don't think that is affecting business, holes in the team/squad are apparent whether long term or short term and with or without Ange they need addressing and a DoF setup will be operating with one eye on beyond whoever is in the hot seat at any given time.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree. We should but...

You get 1.9 million for winning the FA Cup. I think it's a few hundred grand for the League Cup.

You get 3.1 million per Premier League place. So if we finish 7th, that's worth almost 22m compared to finishing 14th and the FA Cup isn't even 2m. It's a fudging horrendous way to look at things but someone at the club will be more than aware of it.

Yes I know why Daniel Levy (and @Baleforce ) do not care about winning Cups but it is all we, as fans, should care about.