Ange in or out?

[90291Spur]

We have x4 goalkeepers. We have x5 fullbacks. Richarlison was signed as a striker. I don't think there's an issue with numbers of players at all.

Yes, we have 4 keepers. Only one of whom is decent. The fact that Forster is the one getting all the game time tells you Austin and Whiteman aren’t nearly good enough.

As for fullbacks, for some reason ange didn’t fancy Spence until he had no choice. Likewise with Reggie.

And the Odobert and Moore absences are just plain bad luck.

 

[Kompakted]

And we sprint more than anyone

Yea it's a high intensity system and I imagine the training sessions are high intensity also. Players are going to pick up hamstring and other muscle injuries and not only that I imagine there's also a risk of stress injuries of the feet and knees etc also

 

[thfcsteff]

Cos I’m a lazy fudged
I don’t play footy any more so it’s circuits and cross training
Kettle bells and dumblells
I’m actually fine a few days after then go again
I do warm up, stretch etc… but then it’s arguably a case I’d doing more stretching and the right type
Haven’t worked with a trainer since I did my first shoulder tear 10 years ago so it’s somethings I’m think of now

But the recovery issue is that the players because of injuries aren’t getting the time
We’re rushing players back because we have to, because we’re desperate and that is about numbers IMO. I’m fine with painful rebuild. I’m fine with losing games because that happens. But when I did the numbers on players sold vs brought in we have left our sieve massively short even with the most optimistic view possible
And it not about needing a leafy back or a certain role, it’s sheer volume of players
We have more goalkeepers than full backs
We have double the amount of left wingers (ones who are comfortable there) than we do right wingers
We only have one senior striker if we’re really honest
And that’s nuts to me

I heartily recommend guidance. Even the slightest 'wrong posture' in an exercise can cause problems...especially as we get older LOL :-(

I agree.
Its an issue that began with poor squad management several years ago, and this is the moment we're paying the piper!

 

[90291Spur]

Indeed.
I was a sprinter in my youth, and can still shift over short distances despite the physical ailment of age. Whenever mine feel sore, I take a variety of preventative measures (aside from the regular yoga stretches) including ice, ice/cold plunges with steam room alternate, stretching routines in a swimming pool and compression under-shorts or leggings (not a pretty site I can assure you LOL). Ontop of making sure my hydration and electrolytes are maintained.

I think the X factor for us is in the extra football and travel these players are having to take on. It is why anything that can improve recovery is vital IMO.

Levy needs to install ice cold plunges at the side of the pitch for the players to use. And steam rooms too. But he won’t.

 

[Kompakted]

Yes, we have 4 keepers. Only one of whom is decent. The fact that Forster is the one getting all the game time tells you Austin and Whiteman aren’t nearly good enough.

As for fullbacks, for some reason ange didn’t fancy Spence until he had no choice. Likewise with Reggie.

And the Odobert and Moore absences are just plain bad luck.

We keep Austin and Whiteman in the squad for club trained purposes. If it wasn't for them.we'd actually struggle to register a compliant UEFA squad, which is testimony to the mismanagement of the football squad over the last decade.

 

[thfcsteff]

if the entire club has been revised and recalibrated to his style of play, why aren't some of the U23s etc getting a chance? why not use them as rotation to rest others if they are now so embedded in his so called 'system' or 'style' or whatever this chaos is supposed to be?

it took him months to give Spence a decent shot, Gray has never been given fair crack in his natural position (a position where our current options are utterly woeful), and he's running Solanke into early retirement because he won't let Lankshear get off the bench.

and 'his' signings, Werner and Maddison are now not deemed good enough by him to start.

a complete mess.

I genuinely believe he's trying to protect the development of players such as Lankshear, who to be fair I felt might be ready in the summer but who obviously isn't quite yet.
Spence was a mystery, agreed.
Werner was given to him, Maddison is being managed I think...let me ask, do you think Ange is purposefully blocking players who are ready and who could change the current trajectory? If so, why would he be doing that?

 

[thfcsteff]

Levy needs to install ice cold plunges at the side of the pitch for the players to use. And steam rooms too. But he won’t.

That voldy needs to install one in my fudging home mate!!!!!!!!!! Lord knows I cannot afford it! Hey, I buy the shirt every year LOL!

 

[90291Spur]

We keep Austin and Whiteman in the squad for club trained purposes. If it wasn't for them.we'd actually struggle to register a compliant UEFA squad, which is testimony to the mismanagement of the football squad over the last decade.

Fantastic that we have them for a compliant squad. Shame they will only get a game if there is no alternative.

 

[Raziel]

I'll leave the rest of your post as is. Opinions, etc.

The bold-faced? I'd love you to explain.
I think you're wrong.
Look at the stats surrounding injuries, particularly hamstring injuries, this season. And think about how much football international players have played the last few years. Udogie, Romero, VdV, Richarlison, Davies, all players with muscular injuries, most hamstring, and all regular international players whose game loads have increased. Look across the league at the hamstrings that are going (Saka's being the latest after a few warnings). And think about the minutes in these players for several years.

When people say we need to change our style of football because of the hamstring injuries we get, it feels so backwards. You surely give the football side of a club every support and tool necessary to play the game they play. Better squad depth, better physios/conditioning, lighten the load on players across the board (PFA where are you?)...that is unless you would be happy being near the top of the table playing like Forest, again, that's a matter of choice I suppose.

Does the manager have a bearing on things? Of course. His football is generally built on high intensities. But I think you're wrong to say the squad injuries are largely on him

Are all teams struggling and are players in general overplayed? Yes

But for us
- two seasons in a row when we are one of the most affected teams
- almost all our injuries are hamstring
- we do the most sprints in league

Those to me are part of Ange's system, specific to him
- VDV & Romero clearly rushed back, on him
- Refusal to use Spence, Reguilon and others in more rotation earlier.

I'm pretty certain a lot of our players show up as redlining.

And I get it, pressure for results, but if you run players into the ground and don't get the results anyway you have made two mistakes

 

[Kompakted]

Indeed.
I was a sprinter in my youth, and can still shift over short distances despite the physical ailment of age. Whenever mine feel sore, I take a variety of preventative measures (aside from the regular yoga stretches) including ice, ice/cold plunges with steam room alternate, stretching routines in a swimming pool and compression under-shorts or leggings (not a pretty site I can assure you LOL). Ontop of making sure my hydration and electrolytes are maintained.

I think the X factor for us is in the extra football and travel these players are having to take on. It is why anything that can improve recovery is vital IMO.

I think its also think there's an element that Ange has never managed a team like this where most games are high intensity. His previous experience is of managing in lower intensity/less competitive leagues. E.g. Celtic can smash in a few goals and coast a bit for a lot of their games and likely takes the edge off the muscle injury risk ....it games like the Southampton one you need....5-0 at HT, games dead, both sets of players going through the motions to an extent for 45 mins. Game like today where it's high intensity and you're defending a 1 goal lead against relentless probing and then trying to counter rapidly is the norm in this league....

 

[thfcsteff]

I think its also think there's an element that Ange has never managed a team like this where most games are high intensity. His previous experience is of managing in lower intensity/less competitive leagues. E.g. Celtic can smash in a few goals and coast a bit for a lot of their games and likely takes the edge off the muscle injury risk ....it games like the Southampton one you need....5-0 at HT, games dead, both sets of players going through the motions to an extent for 45 mins. Game like today where it's high intensity and you're defending a 1 goal lead against relentless probing and then trying to counter rapidly is the norm in this league....

An undeniably fair point.
This is where I think we need to be doing a lot more in the recovery/strength/conditioning areas to work with both the style we play and the amount of minutes in those legs.
Today was actually the deepest we've sat in a second-half for a long time, but I absolutely get your point.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yea it's a high intensity system and I imagine the training sessions are high intensity also. Players are going to pick up hamstring and other muscle injuries and not only that I imagine there's also a risk of stress injuries of the feet and knees etc also

I'd say one of the biggest issues right now is that we do not have the time for full proper training sessions to help mitigate the issues.

 

[Kompakted]

An undeniably fair point.
This is where I think we need to be doing a lot more in the recovery/strength/conditioning areas to work with both the style we play and the amount of minutes in those legs.
Today was actually the deepest we've sat in a second-half for a long time, but I absolutely get your point.

There's only so much strengthening/conditioning and recovery work you can do though and problem is once you've done a muscle seriously it's never going to be 100% again. It'll always get inflammed and that's going to impact on the recovery work anc training you can do. It gets into a vicious cycle that your muscle flairs up a day or two after a match which means you can't train which means you're not conditioned and means flair ups and injuries are more likely....

 

[90291Spur]

Annoyingly, we all have to suffer through many more weeks of frustrating games and results. For all the reasons out there we still have TONS of injuries (and Moore’s illness) and silly suspensions. To expect a significant change in how we perform for the short/medium term is unrealistic. Which is a shame as many of us had high hopes for Ange’s project.

 

[Kompakted]

I'd say one of the biggest issues right now is that we do not have the time for full proper training sessions to help mitigate the issues.

That's just something we need the coaching staff to adapt to though. You need to manage the season you have, not the season you want....

 

[thfcsteff]

That's just something we need the coaching staff to adapt to though. You need to manage the season you have, not the season you want....

Frankly, I think that is absolutely what is happening. We are very fortunate more players are not going down hurt.

 

[thfcsteff]

There's only so much strengthening/conditioning and recovery work you can do though and problem is once you've done a muscle seriously it's never going to be 100% again. It'll always get inflammed and that's going to impact on the recovery work anc training you can do. It gets into a vicious cycle that your muscle flairs up a day or two after a match which means you can't train which means you're not conditioned and means flair ups and injuries are more likely....

We need (if we're not already) to make sure the recovery programs are individual and not 'one-size'...I mean, you'd have to believe they are?

 

[thfcsteff]

Annoyingly, we all have to suffer through many more weeks of frustrating games and results. For all the reasons out there we still have TONS of injuries (and Moore’s illness) and silly suspensions. To expect a significant change in how we perform for the short/medium term is unrealistic. Which is a shame as many of us had high hopes for Ange’s project.

I believe we will find out in the next two weeks if that is the case. We will either have a few new bodies in place to help or we won't. And that will tell us a lot about the immediate future...

 

[sirharolddove]

I genuinely believe he's trying to protect the development of players such as Lankshear, who to be fair I felt might be ready in the summer but who obviously isn't quite yet.
Spence was a mystery, agreed.
Werner was given to him, Maddison is being managed I think...let me ask, do you think Ange is purposefully blocking players who are ready and who could change the current trajectory? If so, why would he be doing that?

I don't think he's a good enough judge of player to know what to do, is my honest opinion. i can't think of a single player that's improved due to him.

 

[metalgear]

Levy will be guided by the brands' image and investment potential. If it turns ugly with fans and press in an insurmountable manner, I have confidence that Levy will pull the rug under Ange, as he did with previous managers (of higher repute)

Timing wise, it may be a pre agreement with a replacement and may be done later, as long as Levy's negotiation hand is strengthened now with a potential fix in place.