Ange in or out?

[harr1984]

"Well we had no choice, if Radu doesn't play, I don't know who plays. He wasn't 100%, but he felt he could get through with his ankle," Postecoglou told reporters

Erm Dorrington?

Seriously I know we don't see what goes on in training but he does have choices he's just stubborn. He really doesn't help himself.

Jeez I wish people would stop going on about fudging Dorrington. The guy is not ready for PL, so many people have said this and funnily enough the manager thinks so too. The guy was bought in when we was thrashing Southampton and within two minutes had given the ball away which allowed them to score, luckily the goal was ruled out for offside. This constant whinging about Ange not just playing any old Tom, dingdong and harry because he's young and has a pulse is getting cringeworthy....

 

[billyiddo]

Jeez I wish people would stop going on about fudging Dorrington. The guy is not ready for PL, so many people have said this and funnily enough the manager thinks so too. The guy was bought in when we was thrashing Southampton and within two minutes had given the ball away which allowed them to score, luckily the goal was ruled out for offside. This constant whinging about Ange not just playing any old Tom, dingdong and harry because he's young and has a pulse is getting cringeworthy....

I think it's person rather than people tbf

 

[sirharolddove]

I’ve watched Dorrington about a dozen times. He is not yet good enough to start for a Championship team.

we'll find out next season at this rate!

 

[Kompakted]

Like I say, extremely poor work from the CEO.

I'd agree. Not just the CEO. The entire board.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'd agree. Not just the CEO. The entire board.

Yep and when an organisation has a poor board in place it typically needs a new CEO.

 

[Kompakted]

Yep and when an organisation has a poor board in place it typically needs a new CEO.

Well a CEO is appointed by the board. BTW Levy is an executive chairman not a CEO. He chairs the board and acts as an executive manager of the business.

He's also a beneficiary of some of the offshore trusts that ultimately own ENIC as is Joe Lewis.

So expecting there to he a change any time soon is, I'm afraid, rather fanciful...

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well a CEO is appointed by the board. BTW Levy is an executive chairman not a CEO. He chairs the board and acts as an executive manager of the business.

He's also a beneficiary of some of the offshore trusts that ultimately own ENIC as is Joe Lewis.

So expecting there to he a change any time soon is, I'm afraid, rather fanciful...

Shame…. We’re unlikely to progress until we get a decent CEO in place

 

[Kompakted]

Shame…. We’re unlikely to progress until we get a decent CEO in place

Scott Munn is the current equivalent to a CEO: He reports to the board and he's in charge of all football operations. He's only been in place for about a year and he's already started rapidly addressing the squad gaps re: HG and club trained so I think its very early doors to judging wouldn't you say?

 

[thfcsteff]

There are people who having watched the game believe we just 'went for it when 2-1 ip and didn't try to manage the game'...the narrative is getting entrenched...

I would.like nothing more than Anger to succeed, I have nothing against the guy, actually like his ambition but not his results. To your points

The squad injuries are largely on him.

I really don't understand the next manager means some huge change in personnel needed? This squad could easily align to any progressive manager playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, that uses wingers (e.g. Iriola as example). This is the point of Munn/Lange

Of course everyone can have an opinion, but the right answer is always manage the risk vs hope (hope is not a strategy) and that's where you and I often disagree

I'll leave the rest of your post as is. Opinions, etc.

The bold-faced? I'd love you to explain.
I think you're wrong.
Look at the stats surrounding injuries, particularly hamstring injuries, this season. And think about how much football international players have played the last few years. Udogie, Romero, VdV, Richarlison, Davies, all players with muscular injuries, most hamstring, and all regular international players whose game loads have increased. Look across the league at the hamstrings that are going (Saka's being the latest after a few warnings). And think about the minutes in these players for several years.

When people say we need to change our style of football because of the hamstring injuries we get, it feels so backwards. You surely give the football side of a club every support and tool necessary to play the game they play. Better squad depth, better physios/conditioning, lighten the load on players across the board (PFA where are you?)...that is unless you would be happy being near the top of the table playing like Forest, again, that's a matter of choice I suppose.

Does the manager have a bearing on things? Of course. His football is generally built on high intensities. But I think you're wrong to say the squad injuries are largely on him.

 

[Bullet]

Steff, they mean Ange makes the players run too hard and too far in games and does not make subs proactively, so he often plays his favourites until they explode, then he has to do without them for 15 games. Would be well advised to rotate/rest players well before they are in the red, back in Aug/Sept/Oct.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'll leave the rest of your post as is. Opinions, etc.

The bold-faced? I'd love you to explain.
I think you're wrong.
Look at the stats surrounding injuries, particularly hamstring injuries, this season. And think about how much football international players have played the last few years. Udogie, Romero, VdV, Richarlison, Davies, all players with muscular injuries, most hamstring, and all regular international players whose game loads have increased. Look across the league at the hamstrings that are going (Saka's being the latest after a few warnings). And think about the minutes in these players for several years.

When people say we need to change our style of football because of the hamstring injuries we get, it feels so backwards. You surely give the football side of a club every support and tool necessary to play the game they play. Better squad depth, better physios/conditioning, lighten the load on players across the board (PFA where are you?)...that is unless you would be happy being near the top of the table playing like Forest, again, that's a matter of choice I suppose.

Does the manager have a bearing on things? Of course. His football is generally built on high intensities. But I think you're wrong to say the squad injuries are largely on him.

Pool are down to their last 2 centre backs. I do t think slot will do anything different
What is odd about the injuries is something we discussed today on the way back
Destiny… hamstring … defender, done on a run
Mick…. Hamstring … defender, but one who doesn’t cover a lot of ground, but when he does it’s at pace, so a logic
Davies… Don’t think I’ve ever noticed him sprint and that’s not a dig
Romero…. Foot thing, not because of running
Then the odd part
Odebert, hamstring but after coming back from an injury (like micky)
Richarlison, hamstring the game after coming back from an injury
There is the pattern for me
Has Ben been injured this season at some point, yep for 5 games.
For me, not that I’m an expert as I injure myself training all the time, a theme is possibly the way we bring them back, rather than what we ask them to do

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Steff, they mean Ange makes the players run too hard and too far in games and does not make subs proactively, so he often plays his favourites until they explode, then he has to do without them for 15 games. Would be well advised to rotate/rest players well before they are in the red, back in Aug/Sept/Oct.

So we know when a player is in the red zone as fans? Sonny must be fudging blue by know judging by his game time and lack of rest. Maybe Ange had a pain to rotate more but the injuries to other dismay have stopped that

 

[thfcsteff]

Answers in bold below.

Maybe I'm misreading it but this is an odd response. It seems like it's you that is disagreeing with Raziel and he (assuming he is a he) has not indicated that you aren't allowed to share a different opinion.

Sorry? I genuinely do not understand the point you're looking to make?

Sure whatever we do is a gamble, it seems like more of a gamble to stick the longer that this run of form goes on. When the performances showed promising signs that was one thing but now the results match the performances. As for the whole club being recalibrated to the current playstyle, that would be awesome if the playstyle actually worked. Continuity isn't ideal if you're not very good.

Your opinion.

I can't help but think you've backed yourself into a corner with declarations on the pod that if we change things up it'll be the worst decision ever based on pressure from idiot fans who don't share the same belief levels that you do. It's paraphrasing to a certain degree but am I miles off?

OK. Again, your opinion. And if I may, I think you're living in some assumptions with what you said above. I For the record, I don't feel backed into any corner, no.

If you don't want to respond, feel free to not bother with a snarky care emoji, that's the kind of brick I would do and you should never stoop to that level no matter how bad it gets!!!! I'm just fascinated if there's a point when you'll be like "Oh actually, this isn't working despite it being in theory what I want our club to be about and we need to make a change".

No, happy to respond.
And to your point of fascination...if he gets something of a fitter squad back, and if after 6 months working with such a situation it looks no better, then absolutely, we look elsewhere. I could possibly be prepared to accept that in the summer if nothing is working any better and we have a decent succession plan lined up. I just don't think anyone can judge anything right now given what's going on.

We are all frustrated. And we are all looking for a magic bullet. Right now I do not believe that exists.

 

[Kompakted]

Pool are down to their last 2 centre backs. I do t think slot will do anything different
What is odd about the injuries is something we discussed today on the way back
Destiny… hamstring … defender, done on a run
Mick…. Hamstring … defender, but one who doesn’t cover a lot of ground, but when he does it’s at pace, so a logic
Davies… Don’t think I’ve ever noticed him sprint and that’s not a dig
Romero…. Foot thing, not because of running
Then the odd part
Odebert, hamstring but after coming back from an injury (like micky)
Richarlison, hamstring the game after coming back from an injury
There is the pattern for me
Has Ben been injured this season at some point, yep for 5 games.
For me, not that I’m an expert as I injure myself training all the time, a theme is possibly the way we bring them back, rather than what we ask them to do

Hamstring injuries are a byproduct of Postecoglu's system and training. They've happened at every club he's been at, most commonly in the first season before physios and fitness staff adapt.. lots of pieces on it. I think the high demands/intensity of the PL provably exacerbate it and mean it's been an even bigger thing than at previous clubs. In terms of recurring injuries, if you develop a muscle injury and then subject that muscle to the same stress that it couldn't cope with previously, you're asking for trouble. They'd need to try and work on the muscle to build resistance but that will take time and it's no guarantee of success. They may attempt surgery if the pain and inflammation becomes chronic and ultimately it might not be salvageable as per Ryan Sessegnon's career ....

 

[thfcsteff]

Pool are down to their last 2 centre backs. I do t think slot will do anything different
What is odd about the injuries is something we discussed today on the way back
Destiny… hamstring … defender, done on a run
Mick…. Hamstring … defender, but one who doesn’t cover a lot of ground, but when he does it’s at pace, so a logic
Davies… Don’t think I’ve ever noticed him sprint and that’s not a dig
Romero…. Foot thing, not because of running
Then the odd part
Odebert, hamstring but after coming back from an injury (like micky)
Richarlison, hamstring the game after coming back from an injury
There is the pattern for me
Has Ben been injured this season at some point, yep for 5 games.
For me, not that I’m an expert as I injure myself training all the time, a theme is possibly the way we bring them back, rather than what we ask them to do

Davies is 31/32? Playing a high-pressure system and having come in to play a lot of games over a short period.
Romero - injured hamstring against Villa, then the toe, then a quad. Two muscular injuries in there.

It is, IMO, absolutely somewhere in the recovery area that the problem lies, and how we bring players back from injuries. Out of interest, how do you injure yourself in training all the time? Do you do proper warm-ups and warm-downs? What sort of training are you doing? I do Orange Theory 3 x a week plus play once a week, but now listen to my body when it tells me it is fudged LOL and take an extra day if I have to.

What this pool of players has had to do for weeks now is total madness IMO.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Davies is 31/32? Playing a high-pressure system and having come in to play a lot of games over a short period.
Romero - injured hamstring against Villa, then the toe, then a quad. Two muscular injuries in there.

It is, IMO, absolutely somewhere in the recovery area that the problem lies, and how we bring players back from injuries. Out of interest, how do you injure yourself in training all the time? Do you do proper warm-ups and warm-downs? What sort of training are you doing? I do Orange Theory 3 x a week plus play once a week, but now listen to my body when it tells me it is fudged LOL and take an extra day if I have to.

What this pool of players has had to do for weeks now is total madness IMO.

Cos I’m a lazy fudged
I don’t play footy any more so it’s circuits and cross training
Kettle bells and dumblells
I’m actually fine a few days after then go again
I do warm up, stretch etc… but then it’s arguably a case I’d doing more stretching and the right type
Haven’t worked with a trainer since I did my first shoulder tear 10 years ago so it’s somethings I’m think of now

But the recovery issue is that the players because of injuries aren’t getting the time
We’re rushing players back because we have to, because we’re desperate and that is about numbers IMO. I’m fine with painful rebuild. I’m fine with losing games because that happens. But when I did the numbers on players sold vs brought in we have left our sieve massively short even with the most optimistic view possible
And it not about needing a leafy back or a certain role, it’s sheer volume of players
We have more goalkeepers than full backs
We have double the amount of left wingers (ones who are comfortable there) than we do right wingers
We only have one senior striker if we’re really honest
And that’s nuts to me

 

[Kompakted]

Davies is 31/32? Playing a high-pressure system and having come in to play a lot of games over a short period.
Romero - injured hamstring against Villa, then the toe, then a quad. Two muscular injuries in there.

It is, IMO, absolutely somewhere in the recovery area that the problem lies, and how we bring players back from injuries. Out of interest, how do you injure yourself in training all the time? Do you do proper warm-ups and warm-downs? What sort of training are you doing? I do Orange Theory 3 x a week plus play once a week, but now listen to my body when it tells me it is fudged LOL and take an extra day if I have to.

What this pool of players has had to do for weeks now is total madness IMO.

Hamstring is an interesting group of muscles because they're not actually used much at all in walking or light jogging but are used extensively during sprinting. So any style of play that requires a lot of sprinting for most of a match or training session has an increased risk of hamstring muscles being overloaded beyond their capacity.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hamstring is an interesting group of muscles because they're not actually used much at all in walking or light jogging but are used extensively during sprinting. So any style of play that requires a lot of sprinting for most of a match or training session has an increased risk of hamstring muscles being overloaded beyond their capacity.

And we sprint more than anyone

 

[Kompakted]

Cos I’m a lazy fudged
I don’t play footy any more so it’s circuits and cross training
Kettle bells and dumblells
I’m actually fine a few days after then go again
I do warm up, stretch etc… but then it’s arguably a case I’d doing more stretching and the right type
Haven’t worked with a trainer since I did my first shoulder tear 10 years ago so it’s somethings I’m think of now

But the recovery issue is that the players because of injuries aren’t getting the time
We’re rushing players back because we have to, because we’re desperate and that is about numbers IMO. I’m fine with painful rebuild. I’m fine with losing games because that happens. But when I did the numbers on players sold vs brought in we have left our sieve massively short even with the most optimistic view possible
And it not about needing a leafy back or a certain role, it’s sheer volume of players
We have more goalkeepers than full backs
We have double the amount of left wingers (ones who are comfortable there) than we do right wingers
We only have one senior striker if we’re really honest
And that’s nuts to me

We have x4 goalkeepers. We have x5 fullbacks. Richarlison was signed as a striker. I don't think there's an issue with numbers of players at all.

 

[thfcsteff]

Hamstring is an interesting group of muscles because they're not actually used much at all in walking or light jogging but are used extensively during sprinting. So any style of play that requires a lot of sprinting for most of a match or training session has an increased risk of hamstring muscles being overloaded beyond their capacity.

Indeed.
I was a sprinter in my youth, and can still shift over short distances despite the physical ailment of age. Whenever mine feel sore, I take a variety of preventative measures (aside from the regular yoga stretches) including ice, ice/cold plunges with steam room alternate, stretching routines in a swimming pool and compression under-shorts or leggings (not a pretty site I can assure you LOL). Ontop of making sure my hydration and electrolytes are maintained.

I think the X factor for us is in the extra football and travel these players are having to take on. It is why anything that can improve recovery is vital IMO.