Ange in or out?

[harr1984]

Ange Postecoglou: Is Tottenham manager's style to blame for injuries?

Sports scientist Anton McElhone has worked closely with Ange Postecoglou at Celtic and speaks to BBC Sport about his methods.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now the BBC have this article. Come on Levy read it and act!

Have you actually read the article?

"As the players adapted to the demands of the system, the game fluctuation changed rather than that constant 'basketball' up and down the pitch, the team was able to control one half of the pitch more. So that stopped the centre-backs having to run in behind as often.

"As the game model and philosophy settled, that reduced injuries.

"At the moment, that is the problem at Tottenham. He has not got the squad.

"They have had a change of medical staff in the background in the last year as well, on top of all the other issues."

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

Have you actually read the article?

"As the players adapted to the demands of the system, the game fluctuation changed rather than that constant 'basketball' up and down the pitch, the team was able to control one half of the pitch more. So that stopped the centre-backs having to run in behind as often.

"As the game model and philosophy settled, that reduced injuries.

"At the moment, that is the problem at Tottenham. He has not got the squad.

"They have had a change of medical staff in the background in the last year as well, on top of all the other issues."

Nope, just looked at the title and the glum pictures of Ange and that was enough for me!

 

[DubSpur]

Yeah. Its awesome how he backed Ange…

Dominic Solanke	26	AFC Bournemouth	€59.7M
Archie Gray	18	Leeds United	€38.3M
Wilson Odobert	19	Burnley F.C	€25.74M
Lucas Bergvall	18	Djurgårdens IF	€9.3M
Min-hyeok Yang	18	Gangwon FC	€3.7M

Three of those have been among our best players this season. One is injured and the other is only in the door.
If every transfer window we bring in three players that turn out to be among our best players we'll be doing ok.

 

[glasgowspur]

Ange Postecoglou: Is Tottenham manager's style to blame for injuries?

Sports scientist Anton McElhone has worked closely with Ange Postecoglou at Celtic and speaks to BBC Sport about his methods.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now the BBC have this article. Come on Levy read it and act!

When ange went into Celtic they were a mess, the squad was demotivated, surly and in quite a few cases unfit.
At least some of their injuries came because the players were not looking after themselves properly.

 

[fernadez]

Have you actually read the article?

"As the players adapted to the demands of the system, the game fluctuation changed rather than that constant 'basketball' up and down the pitch, the team was able to control one half of the pitch more. So that stopped the centre-backs having to run in behind as often.

"As the game model and philosophy settled, that reduced injuries.

"At the moment, that is the problem at Tottenham. He has not got the squad.

"They have had a change of medical staff in the background in the last year as well, on top of all the other issues."

The counter again is that he should adapt, furthermore it happened before in a league with less intenisty with the best team. We don't have the best team, so simply trying to plug and play what worked before under different circumtances isn't really a great look. After last season's injuries adjustments should have been made so what is happening now was avoided.

'He has not got the squad' could simply mean he hasn't got the best squad in the league, he never will at this club. Last year it was too big and needed more games, now it's too small and needs less games.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

When ange went into Celtic they were a mess, the squad was demotivated, surly and in quite a few cases unfit.
At least some of their injuries came because the players were not looking after themselves properly.

TBF we will never know if it is Ange or just horrendous bad luck.

But if articles like this are in the media, jokes aside, would the players not think it is the training? Also, cant help that Spurs openly on Linkedin were hiring for medical professionals/medical team.

 

[glasgowspur]

TBF we will never know if it is Ange or just horrendous bad luck.

But if articles like this are in the media, jokes aside, would the players not think it is the training? Also, cant help that Spurs openly on Linkedin were hiring for medical professionals/medical team.

Quotes from the article

Ange is very good at giving players time off, time to reflect. The training volume is good.

To get that in the Premier League, you do have to train quite extensively for it. But you need the right tools, by that I mean the right players. They need to be robust enough, and I don't know at the moment at Tottenham if they've got these players. They've got a very young squad behind the senior squad as well.

At Tottenham he's probably found that a lot more difficult because I don't think the strength in depth is the same as other Premier League clubs like Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea.

"Look at the evolution at Celtic under Postecoglou, we had a three-month period of sustaining injuries every week, mostly hamstring injuries. We had to get to the winter break to reset."

"As the players adapted to the demands of the system, the game fluctuation changed rather than that constant 'basketball' up and down the pitch, the team was able to control one half of the pitch more. So that stopped the centre-backs having to run in behind as often.


I suspect your are correct in that ultimately we will never know, we will only ever hear what fits the narrative of whoever is telling it.
Such is life these days.

 

[harr1984]

The counter again is that he should adapt, furthermore it happened before in a league with less intenisty with the best team. We don't have the best team, so simply trying to plug and play what worked before under different circumtances isn't really a great look. After last season's injuries adjustments should have been made so what is happening now was avoided.

'He has not got the squad' could simply mean he hasn't got the best squad in the league, he never will at this club. Last year it was too big and needed more games, now it's too small and needs less games.

I've just posted what the article says, but at the end of the day I'd rather listen to the opinion of someone who has worked directly with Ange and also at our club and is an expert in this field over the guess work listed on here (myself included obviously).

Don't think anyone has said we need less games, more that we need the time to build the squad to have big enough depth to compete on all fronts. Right now, the 'potential' of our players outweighs the overall quality due to a mixture of players being young and others just inconsistent (or both) - in a year or two with some sensible additions the balance should shift the other way....

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

I've just posted what the article says, but at the end of the day I'd rather listen to the opinion of someone who has worked directly with Ange and also at our club and is an expert in this field over the guess work listed on here (myself included obviously).

Don't think anyone has said we need less games, more that we need the time to build the squad to have big enough depth to compete on all fronts. Right now, the 'potential' of our players outweighs the overall quality due to a mixture of players being young and others just inconsistent (or both) - in a year or two with some sensible additions the balance should shift the other way....

I get that (know youre not directly replying to me though).

Would you take this scenario then, hypothetically.

Ange see the season out, we avoid relegation and see how we are with a fully fit team and no cup wins? No one can predict the future and I would love for it to work out with Ange, despite all my recent negative posts about him. However I see the negative football (ie constant attacks against us) outweighing the positive football (ie lovely attacking football). Results need to change and I do hope we beat Leicester on Sunday, and convincingly, although I would take a scrappy one nil win as I am so scared about relegation.

The thing is that we have been so inconsistent since the Chelsea game last year I honestly dont know whether getting rid of him now is the best thing, or just seeing it out. If I was as confident as some about us not getting relegated I would say the latter, but I just cant see any more wins for us in the near future.

 

[tommysvr]

The counter again is that he should adapt, furthermore it happened before in a league with less intenisty with the best team. We don't have the best team, so simply trying to plug and play what worked before under different circumtances isn't really a great look. After last season's injuries adjustments should have been made so what is happening now was avoided.

'He has not got the squad' could simply mean he hasn't got the best squad in the league, he never will at this club. Last year it was too big and needed more games, now it's too small and needs less games.

His time in Yokohama and Brisbane counter it the other direction. They certainly weren’t the best teams with the best squads.

(If the reply to this is that the A-League and J.League are brick then a) you’re wrong b) it’s all relative)

 

[harr1984]

I get that (know youre not directly replying to me though).

Would you take this scenario then, hypothetically.

Ange see the season out, we avoid relegation and see how we are with a fully fit team and no cup wins? No one can predict the future and I would love for it to work out with Ange, despite all my recent negative posts about him. However I see the negative football (ie constant attacks against us) outweighing the positive football (ie lovely attacking football). Results need to change and I do hope we beat Leicester on Sunday, and convincingly, although I would take a scrappy one nil win as I am so scared about relegation.

The thing is that we have been so inconsistent since the Chelsea game last year I honestly dont know whether getting rid of him now is the best thing, or just seeing it out. If I was as confident as some about us not getting relegated I would say the latter, but I just cant see any more wins for us in the near future.

I'm not concerned about relegation assuming we get our players back from injury and the second half of the season we don't have the same horrific injury list (but that's just my opinion on the matter, that's not me saying we are too good to go down and be dismissive of relegation). As for Ange himself, I would still like to see him stay and see what happens when our players return and can share the load more. I was always prepared for a period of darkness, as indeed was everyone or so they said and I still think we can end the season on a positive with him at the helm. The league is a write off, but if we somehow managed to win a trophy and finish around mid table it would still be a good season - things change so quickly in football.

But, I completely appreciate those who want rid, the results aren't anywhere close to what we want and what we aspire to. I think he still deserves to the end of the season as things stand, he has had to deal with a lot - but I can't argue with anyone who thinks otherwise and certainly wouldn't criticise Levy was he to pull the trigger....

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

I'm not concerned about relegation assuming we get our players back from injury and the second half of the season we don't have the same horrific injury list (but that's just my opinion on the matter, that's not me saying we are too good to go down and be dismissive of relegation). As for Ange himself, I would still like to see him stay and see what happens when our players return and can share the load more. I was always prepared for a period of darkness, as indeed was everyone or so they said and I still think we can end the season on a positive with him at the helm. The league is a write off, but if we somehow managed to win a trophy and finish around mid table it would still be a good season - things change so quickly in football.

But, I completely appreciate those who want rid, the results aren't anywhere close to what we want and what we aspire to. I think he still deserves to the end of the season as things stand, he has had to deal with a lot - but I can't argue with anyone who thinks otherwise and certainly wouldn't criticise Levy was he to pull the trigger....

Na, too much of a sensible answer for me. I will think about my actual response in due course rather than reply "disagree, think he needs to go now because he's a cnut".

Will be in touch shortly.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Yeah. I've picked the right time to have a weekend away.
Should we somehow lose that, I can barely imagine what the Spurs fanbase will be like.

A weekend away? I’m travelling for 2+ months and am thinking I can’t have picked a better time to be away from the toxicity. Trying to follow stuff online but it’s all a bit depressing. I love this place though. Different opinions but apart from one or two it’s all very measured and reasoned, regardless of which side of the Ange Out/Ange In/Levy Out/In/Enic Out/In fence posters are on.

 

[Muttley]

I've just posted what the article says, but at the end of the day I'd rather listen to the opinion of someone who has worked directly with Ange and also at our club and is an expert in this field over the guess work listed on here (myself included obviously).

Don't think anyone has said we need less games, more that we need the time to build the squad to have big enough depth to compete on all fronts. Right now, the 'potential' of our players outweighs the overall quality due to a mixture of players being young and others just inconsistent (or both) - in a year or two with some sensible additions the balance should shift the other way....

Yeah, ideally we'd have multiple opinions. This guy could have easily just written nice things because he's mates with Ange. It's actually a very balanced article for the BBC. I was expecting it to be a load of Ange bashing. I'm glad it wasn't.

First time I'd watched the post match interview that's in the same link. I would have told Ange to fudge off if I was that interviewer. He was rude and disrespectful to someone who is doing their job. In that moment, he let our club down. It was actually a fair question.

This is the side of Ange that is unfortunately rearing its ugly head. Ange needs someone like Munn to sit him down and tell him he is letting his ego get in the way of being objective.

 

[harr1984]

Yeah, ideally we'd have multiple opinions. This guy could have easily just written nice things because he's mates with Ange. It's actually a very balanced article for the BBC. I was expecting it to be a load of Ange bashing. I'm glad it wasn't.

First time I'd watched the post match interview that's in the same link. I would have told Ange to fudge off if I was that interviewer. He was rude and disrespectful to someone who is doing their job. In that moment, he let our club down. It was actually a fair question.

This is the side of Ange that is unfortunately rearing its ugly head. Ange needs someone like Munn to sit him down and tell him he is letting his ego get in the way of being objective.

I actually think Ange 'takes on' the media fairly most of the time - they ask the most stupid questions that they deserve the short shrift Ange sometimes gives them. They irritate the hell out of me, so I couldn't criticise Ange for being snappy at times.

However, on this occassion it was wrong and undoubtedly the pressure getting to him.....

 

[glasgowspur]

A weekend away? I’m travelling for 2+ months and am thinking I can’t have picked a better time to be away from the toxicity. Trying to follow stuff online but it’s all a bit depressing. I love this place though. Different opinions but apart from one or two it’s all very measured and reasoned, regardless of which side of the Ange Out/Ange In/Levy Out/In/Enic Out/In fence posters are on.

I've all but checked out tbh, not the games, but everything around it. I can't influence any of it and I have enough stress in my life to deal without taking on more that I can't control.

I watch with interest what is posted on here, but not for usual reasoned debates we normally have, but to observe how it is affecting everyone.
Quite fascinating some of it.

Enjoy your travels!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Three of those have been among our best players this season. One is injured and the other is only in the door.
If every transfer window we bring in three players that turn out to be among our best players we'll be doing ok.

Gray and Bergval are learning on the job though. I see numerous examples every match with their positioning and decision making. They will both be better for it and I think in 2 years' time both players will be superb. However, I don't think either would be close to starting at present for one of the top teams.

Note that I'm happy for us to cotinue to sign mostly really talented young players who still have a 1 to 3 years development before being truly ready. We just have to be patient for a year or two if that is to be our MO.

 

[suffolkspur]

I know exactly how he feels. Ange lost me too yesterday. And it’s wasn’t about the performance because I’ve seen far worse.

The game started and I was looking out for Gray in midfield, something I’ve been looking forward to but pretty soon I saw 3 at the back. WTF???

He basically abandoned his principles. Something he said he’d never do. He’s basically a fraud. Ok that may be too strong but certainly spineless. Just put Gray in midfield and keep the shape. If you’re going to lose your nerve do it against a big team, not Everton.

I've gone back and forth on this over a number of months. I did get to the point where I thought he should go after issues this season appeared to have continued from the end of last, similar issues defensively, injuries piling up again, and apparent refusal to play certain players such as Spence despite on-going poor form of others.

He won me around briefly with what appeared to be some better performances in games which suggested maybe all was not lost, introducing Spence into the fold and how he dealt with media pressure, a few positive upbeat interviews etc. made me think there was a chance he could turn in around.

But Tamworth game where we put out an unexpectedly strong team and then played appallingly being a better connected toe poke away from being knocked out to a team of part timers followed by the set up against Everton which led to us being 3 nil down against a poor team has sealed it for me.

I think I really wanted to believe in the idea and philosophy that he's spoken of but aside from the start of last season and the occasional game where we have been fantastic, it's flattered to deceive and the results over 18 months I now think speak for themselves.

 

[Raziel]

Gray and Bergval are learning on the job though. I see numerous examples every match with their positioning and decision making. They will both be better for it and I think in 2 years' time both players will be superb. However, I don't think either would be close to starting at present for one of the top teams.

Note that I'm happy for us to cotinue to sign mostly really talented young players who still have a 1 to 3 years development before being truly ready. We just have to be patient for a year or two if that is to be our MO.

That's fair, and I suspect the club was in line with that

But, big difference between being 8th-10th with players like Bergvall, Gray, Wilson, Yang developing, and being 15th with worse form in the league.

No way the side we put out on Sunday should be 3-0 down at HT to that Everton side.

 

[DubSpur]

Gray and Bergval are learning on the job though. I see numerous examples every match with their positioning and decision making. They will both be better for it and I think in 2 years' time both players will be superb. However, I don't think either would be close to starting at present for one of the top teams.

Note that I'm happy for us to cotinue to sign mostly really talented young players who still have a 1 to 3 years development before being truly ready. We just have to be patient for a year or two if that is to be our MO.

Agree they are still learning and they are making mistakes, but they have still performed better than the majority of senior players. I'd still rather have VdV and Romero at CB even though Gray has done great there.

Realistically the only way we are going to get close to building a squad that will get near the top of the table is to continue with buying the best young talent before they develop into world class players. If we get to that stage then we can look to buy one or two ready made players. As you say, we just have to be patient while they develop.