Ange in or out?

[glorygloryeze]

I’m just using united as a reference
Could be another side
If a player is waiting for a club in a better league table place that’s incredibly short sighted of them … I’d say they are p t the player we would want
I do wonder what money fans think we have to spend in January but sure it will be used no matter what as per your item b.
I did read in teletext that city are spending £150m … why aren’t we

Swings and roundabouts, i'm sure many of our signings over the years have gone for us over other teams because we were in a better place league and competition-wise, oh and money of course. That's the football foodchain. And tbh, after so many years of no trophies and how we've gone through managers, how great a sell are we anyway?

 

[Finney Is Back]

The concert money is coming in anyway. You finish 7th or maybe 8th and you’re in Europe.

The suggestion was that we write off the league. We do that, we could finish down in that sort of position. You also have to remember that we have a chairman who apparently fell out with Jose and fired him because Jose wanted to sacrifice a league game and focus on the cup final.

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. Levy has a reputation of pay for performance which basically means “you’ll get a percentage of whatever money we take in”. You’d therefore have to imagine that any of Ange’s bonus pay is more heavily weighted towards a higher league finish than winning a cup.

It’s an interesting potential dynamic. Fans’ biggest criticism of Levy has been how he prioritises economics over trophies. That theory may be put to the test in the coming weeks and months.

The real problems at THFC.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's a very weird move, but if you take Simon Jordon's view (see quote), i.e. since the intention would have been to fire him anyway, if he did manage to win he would have legal claims against the club beyond his big payoff ->
“If they fired him then, not only would he get his contract paid off, is there a possibility, like Antonio Conte, that he would then sue Tottenham for unfair dismissal? On the basis that he had done precisely what he was brought in to do. “Conte did sue Chelsea. Not only did he get the money he was owed by Chelsea for the rest of his contract irrespective of the fact he was working for someone else… he also got another big bag of money



I don't think so, as I said, get knocked out of 2nd leg, the club isn't going to bet on FA (away to Villa) and a long ass runway to Europa, It's league cup timing now for him.

THFC, the club that puts saving a bit of money over winning a trophy. Is there another club in England that would do this?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Swings and roundabouts, i'm sure many of our signings over the years have gone for us over other teams because we were in a better place league and competition-wise, oh and money of course. That's the football foodchain. And tbh, after so many years of no trophies and how we've gone through managers, how great a sell are we anyway?

Great enough for Bergvall and drago to turn down Barca and Bayern, but not great enough for some other people

 

[DeanoAustin]

THFC, the club that puts saving a bit of money over winning a trophy. Is there another club in England that would do this?

The Jose decision particularly gave every anti-ENIC person the biggest stick to beat Levy with and justifiably so. He seems to have changed approach a bit with how much time he's giving Ange. How much pressure, if any, he puts on Ange to prioritise league position over the cups will indicate if he's had a Paulean conversion or is still, to quote The Simpsons, more the same than ever.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The Jose decision particularly gave every anti-ENIC person the biggest stick to beat Levy with and justifiably so. He seems to have changed approach a bit with how much time he's giving Ange. How much pressure, if any, he puts on Ange to prioritise league position over the cups will indicate if he's had a Paulean conversion or is still, to quote The Simpsons, more the same than ever.

It was odd at the time and seems more odder as time goes on

 

[Finney Is Back]

Great enough for Bergvall and drago to turn down Barca and Bayern, but not great enough for some other people

If you pay the money then you tend to get the player. We have advantages over most clubs in the world due to both quality/exposure of the league in general and the location we are based.

Italian clubs have advantages in terms of paying players moving to Italy from overseas with their super tax rules (though only the biggest 3 or 4 Italian clubs can match our wage offer even with the tax advantage). So other than those, one club in France, one club in Germany, three clubs in Spain and 5 or 6 clubs in England we pretty much have our pick. We're probably about 15th or 16th in the food chain.

 

[Grays_1890]

Yes I know why Daniel Levy (and @Baleforce ) do not care about winning Cups but it is all we, as fans, should care about.

Or you can care about both, this languishing in 14th hoping we reverse form against Liverpool is no good either.

We should always aim to be the best we should be in the league and otherwise, no point spaffing 38 games up the wall, would be a painful season even with a LC win.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Great enough for Bergvall and drago to turn down Barca and Bayern, but not great enough for some other people

Yeah, young players probably sold a vision that looked like they'd have a better chance of playing first team football sooner.

Would be great if very good/great players who are more in their prime would turn down the likes of PSG, Bayern etc for us as well

 

[Finney Is Back]

Or you can care about both, this languishing in 14th hoping we reverse form against Liverpool is no good either.

We should always aim to be the best we should be in the league and otherwise, no point spaffing 38 games up the wall, would be a painful season even with a LC win.

Our squad is too small and injured to be able to compete across 3 or 4 fronts (in my defence here I said right at the start of the season that we were 3 players short in the squad) so we have to prioritise. That priority should be the cups, lets actually properly go for some silverware for once instead of going for the money.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Our squad is too small and injured to be able to compete across 3 or 4 fronts (in my defence here I said right at the start of the season that we were 3 players short in the squad) so we have to prioritise. That priority should be the cups, lets actually properly go for some silverware for once instead of going for the money.

I think Ange will go for the cups; it will come down whether he has the tactical acumen to succeed or not in the cups (or win enough league games to get us into a respectable position in the table).

The evidence so far says that's unlikely, but there will not be a lack of effort on his/the club's part

 

[billyiddo]

I have had a bit of a think regarding the situation atm as it seems so out of the ordinary for us to be where we are in the table and seemingly there being no pressure on the manager from within and only noises from the club regarding it not being an intention to sack him - previous managers have all been let go while the team was in a better position. Why is that?

To me the most likely suggestion put forward that I have seen is that the Club considered that with a rebuild of this magnitude a season like this was going to be a potential outcome - people can do their own leg work but player turnover has been incredibly high these past two seasons and there has clearly been a focus within that to lower the average age of the squad - now i don't think this entirely excuses Ange of what we are seeing and i do think there are likely plenty of managers who would be doing a better job with the hand he has been dealt, so the only way I can square the club not making a change is because they are placing less importance on league position/performance than they have done previously and they are content to muddle through as the priority currently is squad (re)building.

I also think it's likely that Ange was in part chosen as the man to see us through this potentially rocky period rocky period because he's proven to be a person that his clubs supporters will get behind and his style of play, or attempted style of play, will be more acceptable than a Conte/Nuno/Mourinho and buy him & the club time to do what is requires - in some ways it's a bit of a masterstroke of an appointment because despite watching one of our worst ever seasons unfold there isn't really that much pressure on the manager from supporters.

With that in mind I'm going to take a 'bigger picture' view to the rest of the season.

 

[Grays_1890]

Our squad is too small and injured to be able to compete across 3 or 4 fronts (in my defence here I said right at the start of the season that we were 3 players short in the squad) so we have to prioritise. That priority should be the cups, lets actually properly go for some silverware for once instead of going for the money.

I agree but you can still strive to finish as high as you can with what you have.

I don't agree with some peoples aggressive idea that all you do is go for the cups because if say this season we finish 12th (I think we might be lucky to there) and we win fcuk all then its an even bigger disaster of a season.

Having dumped my ST I don't have skin in the game in many respects but if it was clearly known that we were not really going for it in league games I would have given it up sooner because what would be the point

 

[DubSpur]

Our squad is too small and injured to be able to compete across 3 or 4 fronts (in my defence here I said right at the start of the season that we were 3 players short in the squad) so we have to prioritise. That priority should be the cups, lets actually properly go for some silverware for once instead of going for the money.

For this season going for the cups is going for the money as well. We're not getting Europe from the league. Winning a cup is our only chance of getting into Europe and the money from that.

 

[Muttley]

I have had a bit of a think regarding the situation atm as it seems so out of the ordinary for us to be where we are in the table and seemingly there being no pressure on the manager from within and only noises from the club regarding it not being an intention to sack him - previous managers have all been let go while the team was in a better position. Why is that?

To me the most likely suggestion put forward that I have seen is that the Club considered that with a rebuild of this magnitude a season like this was going to be a potential outcome - people can do their own leg work but player turnover has been incredibly high these past two seasons and there has clearly been a focus within that to lower the average age of the squad - now i don't think this entirely excuses Ange of what we are seeing and i do think there are likely plenty of managers who would be doing a better job with the hand he has been dealt, so the only way I can square the club not making a change is because they are placing less importance on league position/performance than they have done previously and they are content to muddle through as the priority currently is squad (re)building.

I also think it's likely that Ange was in part chosen as the man to see us through this potentially rocky period rocky period because he's proven to be a person that his clubs supporters will get behind and his style of play, or attempted style of play, will be more acceptable than a Conte/Nuno/Mourinho and buy him & the club time to do what is requires - in some ways it's a bit of a masterstroke of an appointment because despite watching one of our worst ever seasons unfold there isn't really that much pressure on the manager from supporters.

With that in mind I'm going to take a 'bigger picture' view to the rest of the season.

Great post. What I'm hoping is happening is that Levy didn't hire Ange in the first place. I'm hoping that it is Munn that is holding his nerve.

In fact, I hope I never see Levy hire or fire a manager ever again. He had his chance to run football ops and was hopeless at it. He needs to remain upstairs as CEO and stay out of this situation. The time to make a change will be the summer, if at all. Let's be fair to Ange and see whether he can get us back on track in the league.

 

[billyiddo]

Great post. What I'm hoping is happening is that Levy didn't hire Ange in the first place. I'm hoping that it is Munn that is holding his nerve.

In fact, I hope I never see Levy hire or fire a manager ever again. He had his chance to run football ops and was hopeless at it. He needs to remain upstairs as CEO and stay out of this situation. The time to make a change will be the summer, if at all. Let's be fair to Ange and see whether he can get us back on track in the league.

I think it's likely to be a Munn appointment based purely on 2+2ing of them both having crossed paths in Australlia - Munn will have been more aware of him than most you would have to assume and may even have had a relationship in place.

 

[Kompakted]

That is true of every manager at Spurs the past quarter of a century plus other than Pochettino and Redknapp

I really don't think it is. I think until it went pear shaped for any of them, as it does for the vast majority of managers at any club, Jol, Redknapp, AVB, Poch, Mourinho and Conte had the team being solid and generally producing a consistent baseline of performance.

 

[LutonSpurs]

The club may just have decidied not to panic yet. I would assume there is an unspoken trigger for considering his position. Clearly that is not yet. The next 4 weeks (cups and league) might change that position.

 

[Muttley]

I think it's likely to be a Munn appointment based purely on 2+2ing of them both having crossed paths in Australlia - Munn will have been more aware of him than most you would have to assume and may even have had a relationship in place.

Yep, which is why the Ange attributes hired by Munn are still so important right now. Can you imagine Jose or Conte sitting in the pressers at the moment. They would be in total meltdown and pointing fingers everywhere. It definitely wouldn't be their fault. They wouldn't have held this dressing room together. Not a chance. In fact, both would want to be 2 thirty year olds this window for top money.

It's just such a shame that the tactical chinks come with the manager. I still hope he adapts around what he is seeing in the PL. Then we really have a good fit. I can't call it how it's going to go.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think it's likely to be a Munn appointment based purely on 2+2ing of them both having crossed paths in Australlia - Munn will have been more aware of him than most you would have to assume and may even have had a relationship in place.

Munn was city group too as was Ange