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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

braineclipse said:
I'm not sure I entirely understand your point.

I don't think the squad is balanced. I agree we need upgrades, I think it matters greatly what kind of football we're envisioning playing now and in the coming years when we try to sign those reinforcement.

Said this before, but it Frankball (with Frank or someone like him) and building on the way we've played this season is the plan for the future a properly big target man striker should be high up the list of priorities. If we're gonna flip flop again that may not be the preferred striker profile to go for.

Other styles of play require other profiles before the squad resembles balance in terms of having the profiles necessary to play that style well.

You say upgrade Vicario. Another example. Should we prioritise the quality a new goalkeeper has with the ball at his feet? Ability to defend crosses? Act as a sweeper keeper? That depends on how we want to play.

We need upgrades regardless, but what kind of upgrades that would do us the most good depends on how we want to play.
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I just think that most great players transcend different tactical systems. Romero has played well in Conte's 3-4-3. He then transitioned into Ange's high back line / offside trap based defence and then finally into Frank's more orthodox approach. I've not really see him struggle but have made the statement that he is best suited to Frank's system. That isn't dissimilar to the one he won the world cup in. I guess my point is that if you buy the quality of player in the first place then it's just so much easier to transition. Perhaps you find your diversity of player in that last 10-20% of player choice.

As for Vic, I don't think he kicks the ball well in any system. Even in Frank's system where he is allowed to put his foot through it he keeps slicing it and even misses the entire pitch at times. He's definitely not intricate enough to play in a Pep system either. Most of all he is just not good with a moving ball. I think there will be GK's out there that can command their box, use their feet and have the shot stopping and aerial abilities. Not sure it's our first priority though and I would always prioritise quality over quantity when developing a squad. I'd happily just see us buy one or two great 1st team players each window. Buying 5 or 6 has never worked.
 
Pretty sure GHod’s the manager now, injured Kudus, Bentancur & Richie to give us better balance and force Frank to play Tel, Xavi, Odobert and Paulinha
 
Gazza said:
Average team + below average results and performances = Manager Issue

Manager Issue / Fans Unrest = Sacked manager

Sacked manager x No direction from board = GG meltdowns

We are almost there
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Not sure many have the energy for meltdowns anymore, too many years of crap means apathy is well and truly set. Going to games meaning you are often a victim of having a social media "celeb" filming himself and the game around you on the concourse or in the stand, some two bob band playing b0llox and loads of forced and faked up atmosphere gimmicks, honestly rather stay home and moan on here for a half then watch a Movie hahaha.
 
DubSpur said:
That season Everton weren't in Europe and went out of both cups early. So they didn't compete across all compeitions or compete for trophies. The next season they dropped off again in the league.

At the start of a season, new manager, just one a trophy, fans get carried away with expectations. It's human nature.
Reality is that we were 17th last season. Finishing in the top half and showing progress in the way we play is a good improvement.
I'd be worried if the board were expecting us to be suddenly competing for the CL places. Getting into Europe in any form would be very good progress.

I'm not defending Frank here. So far I don't see anything on the pitch, outside 45 mins yesterday, that gives me hope that he is the right man for the job. 14th, poor football, no real signs of any identity, no patterns in attack, no signs of progress, and sliding down the table at the moment. That's not acceptable.
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I'm kind of aligned with you, but slightly more positive in what I've seen past couple of weeks.

For me, I'm forgetting about expectations of league position - I just want to see Frank continue to work on what look to have potential with Tel/Odobert/Simons and maybe Muani but definitely throwing Solanke back in there. If we can continue to improve with those guys injury permitting and maybe a Kulu or Madders back into the mix before the end of the season and we are looking more cohesive in attack then I will take it, even if we finish 12th or something. Obviously not where we want to be but if we have to write off one season for Frank to figure things out, but by the end of the season Frank has us looking like we are moving in the right direction then I'm ok with it.

As a side point, I think Kudus being out injured is a blessing in some ways. Frank has had to find a different way to attack beyond just give it to Kudus who usually slows everything down. I feel like having been moving the ball quicker without him....
 
veryoldspur said:
It won't be long until we are knocked out of CL, and because we don't have a chance of winning it the sooner the better for me. The reality is then we have to concentrate on staying up. People say that we can't go down, but I disagree. It will only take West Ham to beat us and then go on a bit of a run and we can get dragged into the bottom three. Frank doesn't appear to know what he is doing, the players look lost and aren't motivated, the board are unlikely to make any significant signings, and there is a discourse between the supporters and just about anything to do with the club
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This is exactly my fear and why I feel, in terms of PL safety (not rivalry), next week is the biggest game of the season, a simply 'Must not lose' game,
possibly as is Burnley the following week

Draws we could live with as the gap stays the same to each

The big worry is, can this current set up see it through next week?

I guess we will know this time next week
 
Gutter Boy said:
But why has it taken 30 games to show 45 minutes of energy and some attacking intent? We should have been like that from August. The players showed they actually have quality when they are unleashed
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Haven't read the comments on the match thread and haven't been past this page on here yet so this may already have been said.... I think the first half performance last night was a typical 'Frank performance’. The second half the players took it on themselves to throw off the shackles and try to salvage something from the game. The second half showed us what this team can be without the negativity of the manager dragging it down.

If that second half was under instruction from the manager then why the fudge is he sending them out to be so timid and cowardly and playing so slowly as he did in the first half (and indeed pretty much the entire 90 mins plus of every other game)?
 
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harr1984 said:
Agree, I've always said this. We need some better players for sure, I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. But Frank has to take some of the blame for the football and output too. As do the owners, It's a combination of things that have led us to this point, it's not all Frank and it's not all on the quality of our squad.

But in regards to the manager, with where we are at I think the fans right now need to see something they believe in and can get behind. Second half yesterday we had that, and the whole stadium reacted and was so much more positive. The football wasn't perfect, and never will be with this set of players but the intent was there and we at least gave a decent account of ourselves against apparently one of the top 4 teams in the league.

If Frank can use that and get more of that second half performance from the players then great. If we go back to what we have seen for much of the season against West Ham then I'm really not sure Frank is the guy to take things forward. I'm open to all possibilities to be honest.....
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He's the manager, he has to take all of the blame, that is the role of the manager
 
Finney Is Back said:
Haven't read the comments on the match thread of past this page on here so this may already have been said. I think the first half performance last night was a typical 'Frank' performance. The second half the players took it on themselves to throw off the shackles and try to salvage something from the game. The second half showed us what this team can be without the negativity of the manager dragging it down.

If that second half was under instruction from the manager then why the fudge is he sending them out to be so timid and cowardly and playing so slowly as he did in the first half (and indeed pretty much the entire 90 mins plus of every other game)?
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I don’t know the reasons why the first half was as poor as it was. Some of that has to be on Frank and I can’t explain what his thinking is. But it’s not been uncommon for Spurs teams to play well for only one half. We saw it under Ange too. It might be something to do with conserving energy, I don’t know..

But we can’t have it both ways. Against Sunderland we had a really good first half and then couldn’t keep up the same level second half so fans were suggesting it was down to Frank’s tactics to sit back and invite pressure . Yesterday the opposite happens but it can’t be that Frank getting into the players at half time and changing it around. Like the Liverpool game when something similar happened it must be players “going off script.”
 
Robspur12 said:
I don’t know the reasons why the first half was as poor as it was. Some of that has to be on Frank and I can’t explain what his thinking is. But it’s not been uncommon for Spurs teams to play well for only one half. We saw it under Ange too. It might be something to do with conserving energy, I don’t know..

But we can’t have it both ways. Against Sunderland we had a really good first half and then couldn’t keep up the same level second half so fans were suggesting it was down to Frank’s tactics to sit back and invite pressure . Yesterday the opposite happens but it can’t be that Frank getting into the players at half time and changing it around. Like the Liverpool game when something similar happened it must be players “going off script.”
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Mate - we created considerably less than 0.5XG from open play. We are starting to redefine what the word 'good' looks like on here because the mean level is so awful
 
Finney Is Back said:
Mate - we created considerably less than 0.5XG from open play. We are starting to redefine what the word 'good' looks like on here because the mean level is so awful
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No arguments that our final ball is poor and when we get into positions to shoot we take an extra pass, I saw that plenty of times in the Sunderland game. I am not sure if it is a confidence issue but we are a team with lots of young players and players settling in from other leagues. We need to improve our final third quality but I think that will come, especially when Solanke has settled in. Brentford scored over 60 goals last season and they were not all from set pieces.

What I meant by looking good was that we were pressing high up the pitch and we were creating good positions that then petered out because of our insistence to overplay. No one could have argued if we had gone in at half time during that game 2 or 3 goals up.
 
veryoldspur said:
It won't be long until we are knocked out of CL, and because we don't have a chance of winning it the sooner the better for me. The reality is then we have to concentrate on staying up. People say that we can't go down, but I disagree. It will only take West Ham to beat us and then go on a bit of a run and we can get dragged into the bottom three. Frank doesn't appear to know what he is doing, the players look lost and aren't motivated, the board are unlikely to make any significant signings, and there is a discourse between the supporters and just about anything to do with the club
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i think we have a greater chance of winning the CL than the FA Cup - just look at our EPL record, we can't beat any of the top 5 at the moment !
 
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Robspur12 said:
I don’t know the reasons why the first half was as poor as it was. Some of that has to be on Frank and I can’t explain what his thinking is. But it’s not been uncommon for Spurs teams to play well for only one half. We saw it under Ange too. It might be something to do with conserving energy, I don’t know..

But we can’t have it both ways. Against Sunderland we had a really good first half and then couldn’t keep up the same level second half so fans were suggesting it was down to Frank’s tactics to sit back and invite pressure . Yesterday the opposite happens but it can’t be that Frank getting into the players at half time and changing it around. Like the Liverpool game when something similar happened it must be players “going off script.”
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It can be, because if you (Frank) pushed the side to that second half performance, what the fudge was the subs?

My opinion (and you can freely disagree) is the players took it on themselves (hinted at by VDV post match) and this manager is literally so lost he didn't even read the momentum, Tel off for Scarlett? Xavi wide? wtf ..
 
Robspur12 said:
No arguments that our final ball is poor and when we get into positions to shoot we take an extra pass, I saw that plenty of times in the Sunderland game. I am not sure if it is a confidence issue but we are a team with lots of young players and players settling in from other leagues. We need to improve our final third quality but I think that will come, especially when Solanke has settled in. Brentford scored over 60 goals last season and they were not all from set pieces.

What I meant by looking good was that we were pressing high up the pitch and we were creating good positions that then petered out because of our insistence to overplay. No one could have argued if we had gone in at half time during that game 2 or 3 goals up.
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The second half yesterday was the first time this season we have tried to play ‘fast’. I think it is abundantly clear that is because the manager coaches the exact opposite.

Whether the second half yesterday was the result of the players saying ‘fudge it’ and just going for it, or from the manager thinking that at 2-0 down he had nothing to lose so taking off the shackles is kind of immaterial to me, the problem is that his default is boring, defensive, (supposed) low risk, anti-football. If this negative default way of playing was getting results then I suspect he’d get a pass off of most of our fan base. However when you align the terrible results to the boring, negative way of playing there is absolutely nothing to get behind.

Regarding your last sentence, the team ‘overplay’ because they’re playing to instruction, it is abundantly clear to me that the instruction from the manager is not to take risk.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The second half yesterday was the first time this season we have tried to play ‘fast’. I think it is abundantly clear that is because the manager coaches the exact opposite.

Whether the second half yesterday was the result of the players saying ‘fudge it’ and just going for it, or from the manager thinking that at 2-0 down he had nothing to lose so taking off the shackles is kind of immaterial to me, the problem is that his default is boring, defensive, (supposed) low risk, anti-football. If this negative default way of playing was getting results then I suspect he’d get a pass off of most of our fan base. However when you align the terrible results to the boring, negative way of playing there is absolutely nothing to get behind.

Regarding your last sentence, the team ‘overplay’ because they’re playing to instruction, it is abundantly clear to me that the instruction from the manager is not to take risk.
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Agree, and I'll add something, my opinion is the players don't get/understand/agree with Frank but we actually have guys who give a brick, they keep trying, a lot of squads would have completely downed tools by this point.
 
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