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OMT: European Champions v Brighton - Sunday 25 May

This is why I've asked (and not seen a response) about what Ange will be judged on next season.

If we are in Europe and have a load of injuries and struggling in the league, will it be a repeat of this year where people will say he can't be judged cause of the injuries and Europe etc. Or will it be a case of you've been here 3 years now, the injury situation you should be controlling, you should be doing better in the league regardless of Europe and so on.

What will it take for the quailty of football, tactical set up and league position good or bad to be attributed to his management?
 
fernadez said:
This is why I've asked (and not seen a response) about what Ange will be judged on next season.

If we are in Europe and have a load of injuries and struggling in the league, will it be a repeat of this year where people will say he can't be judged cause of the injuries and Europe etc. Or will it be a case of you've been here 3 years now, the injury situation you should be controlling, you should be doing better in the league regardless of Europe and so on.

What will it take for the quailty of football, tactical set up and league position good or bad to be attributed to his management?
Click to expand...
There is a wholly different set of criteria that some apply to Postecoglu when compared to other managers. Funnily enough this difference in criteria seems to extend to that used by the club senior management when you look at what got previous head coaches the sack.

On injuries, and "throwing the league" even if I park the question of whether his coaching and playing style creates them or not:

If I have to consistently put out a team featuring Gray, Davies, Porro and Spence at the back, does that mean that I get a free pass over the fact that after some 10 games of them playing together they are still positionally all over the place and do not look like a well - drilled unit, despite the obvious quality and experience drop off?

When I play a second string against Palace at home, do I get a free pass based on the fact said second string appear to have had zero training and prep for how to set up to not get consistently carved apart and frustrated an opponent even if there's a quality and experience gap?
 
fernadez said:
This is why I've asked (and not seen a response) about what Ange will be judged on next season.

If we are in Europe and have a load of injuries and struggling in the league, will it be a repeat of this year where people will say he can't be judged cause of the injuries and Europe etc. Or will it be a case of you've been here 3 years now, the injury situation you should be controlling, you should be doing better in the league regardless of Europe and so on.

What will it take for the quailty of football, tactical set up and league position good or bad to be attributed to his management?
Click to expand...
The injury thing, I have never seen such a ridiculous and continuous amount in the PL for any club at any time - I give him some leeway for that.

This season he doesn't get any regarding results or injuries, both have to improve. All the big clubs who win trophies have had an off season in the league (yes I know not as low as 17th) and you can have an unlucky year with injuries aswell. But if either was to occur next season then there are no excuses, another load of injuries can't be a coincidence and a similar return in the league just is not going to wash.

In short, it all falls on him next season....
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
There is a wholly different set of criteria that some apply to Postecoglu when compared to other managers. Funnily enough this difference in criteria seems to extend to that used by the club senior management when you look at what got previous head coaches the sack.

On injuries, and "throwing the league" even if I park the question of whether his coaching and playing style creates them or not:

If I have to consistently put out a team featuring Gray, Davies, Porro and Spence at the back, does that mean that I get a free pass over the fact that after some 10 games of them playing together they are still positionally all over the place and do not look like a well - drilled unit, despite the obvious quality and experience drop off?

When I play a second string against Palace at home, do I get a free pass based on the fact said second string appear to have had zero training and prep for how to set up to not get consistently carved apart and frustrated an opponent even if there's a quality and experience gap?
Click to expand...
I imagine that he will stay based on the cup win

So I think it's important that after a settled summer, no internationals a full preseason etc that there is some form of, 'ok you're bread and butter dau job needs to improve and those factors which may have been mitigating previously can't be used as such now'. Further decline in league form and injuries for example, and it shouldn't be a case of he can't be judged because......
 
harr1984 said:
The injury thing, I have never seen such a ridiculous and continuous amount in the PL for any club at any time - I give him some leeway for that.

This season he doesn't get any regarding results or injuries, both have to improve. All the big clubs who win trophies have had an off season in the league (yes I know not as low as 17th) and you can have an unlucky year with injuries aswell. But if either was to occur next season then there are no excuses, another load of injuries can't be a coincidence and a similar return in the league just is not going to wash.

In short, it all falls on him next season....
Click to expand...
And this is where I'm at.

I expect to see a well drilled through the thirds team. Attacking but pragmatic. I don't expect to see half the team on life support, us give up the same attacking chances we have done for 18 months now and so on. Come August there shouldn't be any ifs or buts when analysing what is being served up during the 90 mins on the pitch.
 
Lemonade Money said:
This.
Click to expand...
Well then I think regardless if people think he should go or not, this mindset will go a long way to unifying the fans.

Accept he's staying, give him the first few games and then judge with no qualifiers, or mitigations.

Either performances turn around (and I would say performances rather than just results), the injuries are of normal numbers or he'll be gone.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
There is a wholly different set of criteria that some apply to Postecoglu when compared to other managers. Funnily enough this difference in criteria seems to extend to that used by the club senior management when you look at what got previous head coaches the sack.

On injuries, and "throwing the league" even if I park the question of whether his coaching and playing style creates them or not:

If I have to consistently put out a team featuring Gray, Davies, Porro and Spence at the back, does that mean that I get a free pass over the fact that after some 10 games of them playing together they are still positionally all over the place and do not look like a well - drilled unit, despite the obvious quality and experience drop off?

When I play a second string against Palace at home, do I get a free pass based on the fact said second string appear to have had zero training and prep for how to set up to not get consistently carved apart and frustrated an opponent even if there's a quality and experience gap?
Click to expand...

Let's cut to the chase.
You hate him.
Fair enough.
The 'pass' he gets (if he gets it - I don't think he will) is that he won our first major trophy in 41 years and therefore enters the season in the rare company of our managers who have a 'winning' squad (and all the mentality which hopefully comes with that).
If he had lost in Bilbao I think we'd all accept that regardless of our personal views on injuries/whatever, his position would've been untennable.
He told you about training/injuries/trying to keep key players fit-recover their fitness-field sides with multiple changes each week, etc.
You either buy it or you don't.
You don't.
Which is fine of course.

But he didn't lose the Final.
So here we are.
It really is that simple IMO.
 
billyiddo said:
Taking all sentiment & optics out of the equation and it's a straight forward footballing decision to sack him, but i think there are people/groups that would use a sacking as fuel to create a toxic atmosphere around the club, you can see the shoots of it already - i think it would get quite ugly. And I think for that reason we need to let him have the start of next season.
Click to expand...

The ONLY reason he should get a chance is if our football heirarchy believe that the act of winning the trophy has created a bond, appetite, and determination which is ascendant with him managing, and that all involved in the debacle of the this season and it's multitude of errors and mistakes have learnt from them. I personally believe this to be the case, but I obviously don't know the inside tracks and details, so mine remains an uninformed opinion based on my own personal perceptions and preferences.

Keeping him around because there are 'people/groups that would use a sacking as fuel'? Are you referring to the Levy Out mob? I mean, it is certainly 'a' reason he might remain -because Daniel doesn't want the heat- however I think he has people in place to take that heat for him if need be.

IF he does keep Postecoglu on for next season, IMO it is imperative that it is because he and Munn/Lange/Vinai/Paratici/whoever is actually in the key positions, have all run the rule on what this win has done within the squad and genuinely believe it can be a progressive and productive season. I think we'd all agree that is the only criteria that qualifies. If it was for reasons of potential toxicity, then I'd be extraordinarily disappointed.

IF he gets sacked, I will disagree with the decision but (as ever) support the club and whoever they choose in the hope and belief that they are doing what they see as right for the development of the club.


I agree that whatever happens, some groups/people will be toxic about it. Sad really. I suppose this is the world we live in.
 
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thfcsteff said:
Let's cut to the chase.
You hate him.
Fair enough.
The 'pass' he gets (if he gets it - I don't think he will) is that he won our first major trophy in 41 years and therefore enters the season in the rare company of our managers who have a 'winning' squad (and all the mentality which hopefully comes with that).
If he had lost in Bilbao I think we'd all accept that regardless of our personal views on injuries/whatever, his position would've been untennable.
He told you about training/injuries/trying to keep key players fit-recover their fitness-field sides with multiple changes each week, etc.
You either buy it or you don't.
You don't.
Which is fine of course.

But he didn't lose the Final.
So here we are.
It really is that simple IMO.
Click to expand...
I don't hate him. Check the OMT from the final. I explicitly stated that on a personal level I was happy for Postecoglu, seeing him celebrate with his family and get a good reception from the fans. I also stated I was happy for him that he gets to flick a bit of a two-fingers up to the press and continue his "always wins a trophy in his second season".

While there are some personality traits of his that I think aren't befitting of the professionalism required at the elite level, I try and separate personality from the cold analysis of performance.

While fully accepting the difficulties in dealing with injuries, fatigue and multiple games, it still does not explain the disjointed and open performances we saw on the pitch.

If I take the FA Cup game against Villa, I fully accept that going away to a really strong team with a back-line of Kinsky, Spence, Gray, Danso and Porro is far from ideal and that as such, getting a result was always a tall order.

Even MORE reason to coach and prepare said back line in the build-up of the match (as much as possible) in the art of remaining tight and compact.

Injuries, rotation issues, tiredness and fixture congestion do not explain why an entire 3rd of our defensive pitch area was vacated minute one away to a top 6 PL side resulting in a free run at our penalty area by their wide forward and a goal.

I'm sorry, but circumstances can only go so far in providing mitigation to some of the completely unacceptable viewing over the course of this season....
 
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