Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Happens in Scandinavia everyday, everywhere.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Silly McSilly Face
Mido
My wife's gym only has male cleaners. They go in and clean the ladies changing room and shower while women are in there. She has complained twice as one of them was there unannounced at 6:30am as she got out the shower and she was on her own and felt vulnerable and embarrassed. They have dismissed the complaint. Its open season these days.
monkeybarry
Nayim
Rightly so by the sound of it
Silly McSilly Face
Mido
Well this is the "culture wars" in a nutshell. You have liberal people that would happily skip along a nudist beach wanging their todger around and thinking nothing off it. Then you have conservative people that don't want to walk out of a shower cubicle naked to find a member of the opposite sex staring at them.
These culture wars exist in your head.
MartyFunkhouser
George Hunt
Spot on
People conflate 1 in 1000 situations into jackanory, pretending its all every day life.
If someone wanted to target women in a female only environment they would as a man and no door sign is going to stop them.
Men sexually assault women all over the world every day, not many of them are going to the bother of dressing as a woman 24/7 to do it......
The London restaurant scene is full of mixed gender toilets where you have a dozen or so cubicles along a corridor, women by nature use a cubicle and so have the safety of being able to lock a door for privacy. If you remove stand up urinals then there is no difference to popping into a disabled toilet that's in the middle of a hotel lobby or train station? Or we going to pretend it's not safe for men and women to share a wash basin now?
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Lost Mango
Jose Dominguez
What a crass comment.
Lost Mango
Jose Dominguez
Sounds like conservative people are over-fixated on sex and had some trauma as a child (possibly but not exclusively linked to schooling or religion) where they are imbued with a sense of shame or guilt about the biological form. Our current puritanical, conservative culture and continued inequality when it comes to women vs mens bodies (such as the sexification of female nipples vs topless blokes being fine) is another layer of BS.
Why wouldn't you be happy wandering along a nudist beach with your todger out? Perhaps if we had more nudity then there would be significantly less uptight people around.
ricky2tricky4city
Paul Stewart
Thang GHod we invented clothes.
monkeybarry
Nayim
I find this interesting.
You mentioned she felt vulnerable and embarrassed - two very unique positions.
Why did she vulnerable?
What made her embarrassed?
If I walked out of the shower in the gym naked and there was a man there cleaning the changing room I'd probably go into a panic (not because I'd be worried about him, just the situation would make me feel uncormfortable) - but then it wouldn't happen as my towel would be firmly wrapped around me before leaving the shower. I will never understand why people think it's normal to parade around naked in front of total strangers. Maybe it's just my age. Or maybe I have undiagnosed deeprooted insecurities. I am definitely of the 'get dressed under your towel' persuasion. 
Anytime I have experienced male cleaners in toilets or changing rooms they've always made their presence very clear in advance.
And most places I've seen have signage to advise that cleaning staff could be male or female.
Anytime I have experienced male cleaners in toilets or changing rooms they've always made their presence very clear in advance.
And most places I've seen have signage to advise that cleaning staff could be male or female.
MartyFunkhouser
George Hunt
If I walked out of the shower in the gym naked and there was a man there cleaning the changing room I'd probably go into a panic (not because I'd be worried about him, just the situation would make me feel uncormfortable) - but then it wouldn't happen as my towel would be firmly wrapped around me before leaving the shower. I will never understand why people think it's normal to parade around naked in front of total strangers. Maybe it's just my age. Or maybe I have undiagnosed deeprooted insecurities. I am definitely of the 'get dressed under your towel' persuasion.
Anytime I have experienced male cleaners in toilets or changing rooms they've always made their presence very clear in advance.
And most places I've seen have signage to advise that cleaning staff could be male or female.
And if we are being all things equal there are scenarios more often where women work in mens loos and changing rooms and its widely accepted. Whenever there is that situation I make sure I maintain my dignity for my sake and theirs.
Not everyone will feel the same and thats fine, but some of the arguments I see on this subject are widely juiced up to play the "worlds gone woke card" when really people are just not really having these experiences en masse either.
Its like claiming we shouldn't trust Drs because of Harold Shipman, as I alluded to earlier evil men will do evil things, they don't need to dress up or masquerade as a cleaner on the off chance they might get access to a womans in a really unique set of circumstances.
johnola
Dean Richards
Sandie Peggie. It’s okay if you find this acceptable, you are allowed to say.
johnola
Dean Richards
the words male and female are not very useful in this context.If I walked out of the shower in the gym naked and there was a man there cleaning the changing room I'd probably go into a panic (not because I'd be worried about him, just the situation would make me feel uncormfortable) - but then it wouldn't happen as my towel would be firmly wrapped around me before leaving the shower. I will never understand why people think it's normal to parade around naked in front of total strangers. Maybe it's just my age. Or maybe I have undiagnosed deeprooted insecurities. I am definitely of the 'get dressed under your towel' persuasion.
Anytime I have experienced male cleaners in toilets or changing rooms they've always made their presence very clear in advance.
And most places I've seen have signage to advise that cleaning staff could be male or female.
monkeybarry
Nayim
It does happen, washing is one of the functions of a changing room.
Johnonlas question wasn't "does it happen" - to which the answer is yes
It was "is it acceptable" - to which the answer is yes, unless an exclusion falls within "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" (Equality Act 2010). Which presumably is focused upon risk management, although I can't think of too many reasons to apply exclusions.
Maybe single gender clubs? IE a working mans club - that's an interesting question, can females work in male only members clubs?
And what happens if a biological female, identifying as male, joins said club but the club enforced a no trans in the toilet rule?!
monkeybarry
Nayim
Ironically, clothing was invented by "people" (technically human adjacent and early homosapiens) that didn't give a damn about gender differences in a way to use clothing to cover up
monkeybarry
Nayim
Quite the opposite - if you understand what gender is, then the terms male and female are key.
ricky2tricky4city
Paul Stewart
Probably because they spent all day looking for food, keeping warm (or cool), and improving their shelter.
Pretty much no different than what we should all be concerned about today.
Ah distractions distractions
Silly McSilly Face
Mido
She felt vulnerable because she was on her own with him in the changing room. He was just stood there at the showers entrance leaning on his mop and staring right at her and he hadn't announced his presence. Then he moved out of the shower area into the changing area and started mopping the floor there even though he appeared to be waiting to clean the showers. She didn't have anywhere to go to remove her towel once on so had to try and put her bra on underneath the towel and he just stared at her mopping the floor the entire time.
MartyFunkhouser
George Hunt
Next week on "that never happened"