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American politics

robp135 said:
My wife would tell someone to wait until the last possible moment if asked for her opinion today on MMR. She has a plan for our son for vaccines he will get that is spaced out and at an older age than recommend. My daughter is not due any more for another 9 years. They will be getting less than the average child.

She personally gave the MMR and other vaccines on the schedule thousands of times and saw issues arise first hand. Her expireince is that some children, especially when younger or getting vaccines closer together, are more susceptible to serious vaccine injury and that combination vaccines like MMR would more frequently result in issues. That rarely would the Drs report a vaccine related injury so the statistics will be inaccurate. The insurance companies would have incentive programs to reward the practice for high vaccination rates as well.

Prior to Covid her view was that these issues happened but for the majority of children vaccines worked and were safe. So although she would see problems arise for some individual children its still providing a net benefit to society. I remember her having a huge arguement with her cousin when we first met who was anti vax. Back when it was a fringe left wing issue so the hippy cousin was anti anything big pharma.

But since becoming a mother herself her views have changed and she feels enormous guilt for the vaccines she gave which resulted in injuring those children. She initially quit due to the insistence on the Covid vaccine and then not wishing to give them anymore, and just enjoying being a Mum, is the main part of why she has not gone back to work.

She will tell you that without fail, every single nurse colleague she had that’s also a mother, will delay the recommended schedule for their own children as well as many of the Drs she worked with. Many don’t vaccinate at all and some had moved to practices that allow parents to chose.

Since Covid and becoming a mother she’s done a lot more research on vaccine safety. She still believes that vaccines work and are effective for the majority of people and children but that many of the vaccines are not necessary as the risk of serious issues form those diseases are so low.

With RFK she is not totally in alignment with his views, both on vaccines and healthcare in general. But she voted for Trump primarily due to RFK when she’s voted Democrat every other time she was eligible. She believes that skepticism of vaccines is positive and will ultimately result in the safety testing being improved and a greater understanding of why vaccines can cause problems in some cases which is more frequent than the industry liked to admit.

For me as I said I follow her lead on health. Shes graduated from one of the best nursing schools in the world. She’s not overly political or conspiratorial in any other ways. I’ve come from the UK and see the stranglehold and influence that the pharmaceutical companies have over the healthcare system in the US and I dont trust them when it comes to medication in general. I’m sure you know about the opioid crisis. Why would I then give some of the very same profit orientated companies the benefit of the doubt with vaccines when they are not even legally obligated to ensure their safety to the same degree as a drugs they put to market?

If that makes us quacks so be it.
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You choice I suppose

Given that swarthes of kids die of measles globally without the vaccine (around 150,000 a year) and only about 140 have died of the vaccine since the 80s, I know which side I am settled on, especially having had it myself, having had my son have it and seeing the local outbreak in Essex and Herts.

Funny you mentioned Israel, I looked and 14 kids died in 2025 due to the outbreak last in the year. None of them vaccinated for measles either.

Anyway, as I say, each to their own
 
robp135 said:
My wife would tell someone to wait until the last possible moment if asked for her opinion today on MMR. She has a plan for our son for vaccines he will get that is spaced out and at an older age than recommend. My daughter is not due any more for another 9 years. They will be getting less than the average child.

She personally gave the MMR and other vaccines on the schedule thousands of times and saw issues arise first hand. Her expireince is that some children, especially when younger or getting vaccines closer together, are more susceptible to serious vaccine injury and that combination vaccines like MMR would more frequently result in issues. That rarely would the Drs report a vaccine related injury so the statistics will be inaccurate. The insurance companies would have incentive programs to reward the practice for high vaccination rates as well.

Prior to Covid her view was that these issues happened but for the majority of children vaccines worked and were safe. So although she would see problems arise for some individual children its still providing a net benefit to society. I remember her having a huge arguement with her cousin when we first met who was anti vax. Back when it was a fringe left wing issue so the hippy cousin was anti anything big pharma.

But since becoming a mother herself her views have changed and she feels enormous guilt for the vaccines she gave which resulted in injuring those children. She initially quit due to the insistence on the Covid vaccine and then not wishing to give them anymore, and just enjoying being a Mum, is the main part of why she has not gone back to work.

She will tell you that without fail, every single nurse colleague she had that’s also a mother, will delay the recommended schedule for their own children as well as many of the Drs she worked with. Many don’t vaccinate at all and some had moved to practices that allow parents to chose.

Since Covid and becoming a mother she’s done a lot more research on vaccine safety. She still believes that vaccines work and are effective for the majority of people and children but that many of the vaccines are not necessary as the risk of serious issues form those diseases are so low.

With RFK she is not totally in alignment with his views, both on vaccines and healthcare in general. But she voted for Trump primarily due to RFK when she’s voted Democrat every other time she was eligible. She believes that skepticism of vaccines is positive and will ultimately result in the safety testing being improved and a greater understanding of why vaccines can cause problems in some cases which is more frequent than the industry liked to admit.

For me as I said I follow her lead on health. Shes graduated from one of the best nursing schools in the world. She’s not overly political or conspiratorial in any other ways. I’ve come from the UK and see the stranglehold and influence that the pharmaceutical companies have over the healthcare system in the US and I dont trust them when it comes to medication in general. I’m sure you know about the opioid crisis. Why would I then give some of the very same profit orientated companies the benefit of the doubt with vaccines when they are not even legally obligated to ensure their safety to the same degree as a drugs they put to market?

If that makes us quacks so be it.
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What is the “last possible moment”?
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
You choice I suppose

Given that swarthes of kids die of measles globally without the vaccine (around 150,000 a year) and only about 140 have died of the vaccine since the 80s, I know which side I am settled on, especially having had it myself, having had my son have it and seeing the local outbreak in Essex and Herts.

Funny you mentioned Israel, I looked and 14 kids died in 2025 due to the outbreak last in the year. None of them vaccinated for measles either.

Anyway, as I say, each to their own
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The impact of the cuts by DOGE to USAID, including the withdrawal of vaccines, is estimated to run into the 100s of thousands of preventable deaths per year. This is why I have no time for the Elon defenders. He is a mass murderer in my eyes. Trump the same.
 
Rorschach said:
The impact of the cuts by DOGE to USAID, including the withdrawal of vaccine, is estimated to run into the 100s of thousands of preventable deaths per year. This is why I have no time for the Elon defenders. He is a mass murderer in my eyes. Trump the same.
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The whole false narrative around things is mental. "ohhhhhhh big pharma don't care about your health just money" well yeh, they may well care about money, but big Pharma has also saved my mums life twice and she is still alive today because of it and listening to well thought out healthcare advise. Pharma would not be anywhere near as profitable as it is, if it didn't work.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
The whole false narrative around things is mental. "ohhhhhhh big pharma don't care about your health just money" well yeh, they may well care about money, but big Pharma has also saved my mums life twice and she is still alive today because of it and listening to well thought out healthcare advise. Pharma would not be anywhere near as profitable as it is, if it didn't work.
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Very glad to hear it.

No doubt big pharma is making extortionate profits, though. Biden tried to curtail this to an extent (and got no credit for it). And not all drugs are helpful (e.g. oxycotin) but generally speaking, scientists know better than blokes who snort coke off toilet seats and drink raw milk.
 
Rorschach said:
Very glad to hear it.

No doubt big pharma is making extortionate profits, though. Biden tried to curtail this to an extent (and got no credit for it). And not all drugs are helpful (e.g. oxycotin) but generally speaking, scientists know better than blokes who snort coke off toilet seats and drink raw milk.
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Absolutely, no doubt and I was being expansive without being specific, I mean I trust the collective, my Dr and those that treated me for 9 days before Christmas and got me back in the game, they are not all part of some big global conspiracy that some would have you think
 
Glenda's Legs said:
So it’s ok at the age of 4 or 5 to have the MMR vaccine but the danger is before that age?
Is this based on scientific evidence or only on your wife’s experience?
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Vaccines trigger the immune system by introducing antigens which will cause inflammation as the body responds. Inflammation can impair blood flow and cause swelling that reduces oxygen delivery to the brain.

The younger the child, the more vulnerable they will be to this as their brains and blood vessels are still developing, making them less able to compensate for reduced oxygen or swelling. Their immune systems can also react more strongly and produce more intense inflammation. The brain is especially sensitive during early development. A lack of oxygen can damage brain tissue which causes brain damage leading to cognitive delays, motor problems, seizures and many other issues.

A child could also have an immune deficiency or an allergy to a vaccine ingredient. If that is known, the child would be vaccine exempt. In these instances the Drs will advise that the risk of a negative response to the vaccine is of greater risk of contracting the disease the vaccine is looking to address. These individual differences and genetic conditions, which can greatly impact the variability of inflammatory responses, are less likely to be known in a younger child than an older one.

For the majority of vaccines (to be clear not all of them) the formulation of the dose given will be the same regardless of age. So if your child gets a particular vaccine at 4 months old and mine gets it was 4 years old, its exactly the same. Even though every other type of medication you take will have variations of dosage based on age as well as body weight. My son was born 3 weeks premature and was 4.5lbs. My daughter was only 1 week premature and she was 8lbs. The dosage that my daughter got for the hepB vaccine would be exactly the same as my son would have got even though she was twice his size. But the risk to my son of a negative reaction to that vaccine is undisputedly greater.

There is a one size fits all approach that understandably is in place for health policy makers and healthcare providers. But as parents of an individual child, you should have the right to assess any risks and make a decision that is right for your family.

So yes, there is less of a risk specific to the vaccination and that is absolutely supported by science. Nobody, even the most ardent pro vaccine scientists and posters can dispute this. If they did they would be contradicting basic scientific logic. The argument would be that getting those diseases is greater than the risk of issues that the vaccine could cause. You can absolutely argue that although it would need to be on an individual vaccination/disease basis.
 
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robp135 said:
Vaccines trigger the immune system by introducing antigens which will cause inflammation as the body responds. Inflammation can impair blood flow and cause swelling that reduces oxygen delivery to the brain.

The younger the child, the more vulnerable they will be to this as their brains and blood vessels are still developing, making them less able to compensate for reduced oxygen or swelling. Their immune systems can also react more strongly and produce more intense inflammation. The brain is especially sensitive during early development. A lack of oxygen can damage brain tissue which causes brain damage leading to cognitive delays, motor problems, seizures and many other issues.

A child could also have an immune deficiency or an allergy to a vaccine ingredient. If that is known, the child would be vaccine exempt. In these instances the Drs will advise that the risk of a negative response to the vaccine is of greater risk of contracting the disease the vaccine is looking to address. These individual differences and genetic conditions, which can greatly impact the variability of inflammatory responses, are less likely to be known in a younger child than an older one.

For the majority of vaccines (to be clear not all of them) the formulation of the dose given will be the same regardless of age. So if your child gets a particular vaccine at 4 months old and mine gets it was 4 years old, its exactly the same. Even though every other type of medication you take will have variations of dosage based on age as well as body weight. My son was born 3 weeks premature and was 4.5lbs. My daughter was only 1 week premature and she was 8lbs. The dosage that my daughter got for the hepB vaccine would be exactly the same as my son would have got even though she was twice his size. But the risk to my son of a negative reaction to that vaccine is undisputedly greater.

There is a one size fits all approach that understandably is in place for health policy makers and healthcare providers. But as parents of an individual child, you should have the right to assess any risks and make a decision that is right for your family.

So yes, there is less of a risk specific to the vaccination and that is absolutely supported by science. Nobody, even the most ardent pro vaccine scientists and posters can dispute this. If they did they would be contradicting basic scientific logic. The argument would be that getting those diseases is greater than the risk of issues that the vaccine could cause. You can absolutely argue that although it would need to be on an individual vaccination/disease basis.
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I'll respond to this later but it is all wrong. Sound science applied out of context by a buffoon.
 
Kids are at a much greater risk from measles between 12 months and 18 months (the double dose age) than they are the vaccine. Mortality rates prove that.

Up to parents to decide what risks they want to expose their kids to I suppose.
 
I can understand why a parent would want to wait a short while if their kid was born premature at 4.5lbs or was particularly weak for whatever reason. But once the baby is a healthy, normal weight and is as able to handle a vaccination as well as the other billions of kids getting the vaccination, they should get the vaccination. That is the safest route.

I wouldn't trust RFK to recommend a good sandwich.
 
Bullet said:
I can understand why a parent would want to wait a short while if their kid was born premature at 4.5lbs or was particularly weak for whatever reason. But once the baby is a healthy, normal weight and is as able to handle a vaccination as well as the other billions of kids getting the vaccination, they should get the vaccination. That is the safest route.

I wouldn't trust RFK to recommend a good sandwich.
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Good advice. He is partial to a bit of roadkill.
 
Bullet said:
I can understand why a parent would want to wait a short while if their kid was born premature at 4.5lbs or was particularly weak for whatever reason. But once the baby is a healthy, normal weight and is as able to handle a vaccination as well as the other billions of kids getting the vaccination, they should get the vaccination. That is the safest route.

I wouldn't trust RFK to recommend a good sandwich.
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Sound
 
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