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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR FC V fulham...Sat 29th (today FFS!) 8pm - BTW HAPPY BIRTHDAY FERNADEZ'S OLDEST KID***

No professional player should be getting the basics wrong. It would be poor at League’s Two level.

Not sure if this is true, but if it is it really is indicative of a poor mindset within this squad.

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Oh dear, I don’t agree with booing, I think we should be supporting our team, but I have to say, if this is true then it says a lot about this group of players and implies there’s worse to come.
 
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This is shocking.

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Unfortunately with what we've seen in the past it's not shocking at all.

I know there's always been a section of idiots at the football ground, but it feels to me that since the new stadium as great as it is things have never felt the same. And I don't just mean from a nostalgia POV, but the atmosphere/general vibe and just the level of disconnect from the players feels greater than ever. Perhaps some will suggest it's as much to do with the times we are in with social media and just the general increased sense of entitlement, but I can't shake the feeling that this grand stadium for whatever reason is currently not benefiting us beyond bringing in more money to the club.

Whatever it is, when we talk about 'club resets' and the like - it feels like there needs to be some form of fan 'reset' because it's getting worse and is bringing the team down, the evidence is there with our home record - it's meant to be a fudging fortress FFS. Whatever we think of the manager, it's most certainly not all on him and we all play our part as small as it may be come match day. There are deeper rooted problems that need to be fixed....
 
So it’s just stats. Muani is just getting into a rhythm and I thought did well yesterday, apart from putting the ball narrowly wide twice. You didn’t think there was potential there? He’s played twice while looking fully fit and in the groove (he’s not fully fit with a broken jaw).

With no Kulu our best creative player for most of last season and Maddison probably the second most creative both missing, as well as Solanke, are you surprised our attack is limited?

Throw in many new players and young players, a new coach and new way of playing…and it makes sense where we are now. It takes time. Let’s hope Spurs fans don’t undermine a decent manager who just needs some time patience and backing.

So how is Thomas Frank going to use Kulusevski? How is Thomas Frank going to use James Madison next season (assuming he is still here)? Who is Thomas Frank going to use instead of James Madison for at least half of the season when Madders gts hurt again?

Please. If I am missing something here, absolutely educate me. I am all eyes and willing to learn. Because right now, the style of play Thomas Frank is insisting we use seems very, very far away from anything which would see these players utilised as passers.

You and others are stuck on the whole '17th last season this is what we expect' etc, etc. Frankly (no pun intended) our league position matters little to me (as long as we don't get sucked into a proper relegation battle - you know, like needing to win at Oldham in late April mid-week to make sure we don't go down style battles) this season, precisely because as you said a new manager needs to be given time to make their identity take hold. When I start to care a whole lot, is when I don't see an identity, or even worse, if what I am being shown in this current situation is the target identity. I do not like this direction. I don't like a side fashioned to win second balls deep, shove the ball wide and rely on a high volume of crosses to score.

Again, we have some gifted players. Xavi. Muani. Kudus. Bergvall. All are players with high technical skill. Add Romero and Porro to that list. We could set up in ways which make the best of these players. I am not seeing any interest in doing so...

So again, I ask you, what am I missing in Thomas Frank's style? Show me as every ounce of my personality type is all about giving people time to do their jobs properly, as it is the right thing to do. Unless the job they'll end up doing properly is not the job I want to see done...
 
Unfortunately with what we've seen in the past it's not shocking at all.

I know there's always been a section of idiots at the football ground, but it feels to me that since the new stadium as great as it is things have never felt the same. And I don't just mean from a nostalgia POV, but the atmosphere/general vibe and just the level of disconnect from the players feels greater than ever. Perhaps some will suggest it's as much to do with the times we are in with social media and just the general increased sense of entitlement, but I can't shake the feeling that this grand stadium for whatever reason is currently not benefiting us beyond bringing in more money to the club.

Whatever it is, when we talk about 'club resets' and the like - it feels like there needs to be some form of fan 'reset' because it's getting worse and is bringing the team down, the evidence is there with our home record - it's meant to be a fudging fortress FFS. Whatever we think of the manager, it's most certainly not all on him and we all play our part as small as it may be come match day. There are deeper rooted problems that need to be fixed....

We get into this on the pod in some detail...
 
Honestly, I think that is what creates the bricky atmosphere in our ground. We don’t have a right to expect a high quality product. You pay for your season ticket, you have the right to go and watch 19 games a season where, as a fan, you should be supporting the team. There are no guarantees beyond that even with high ticket prices.

Unfortunately in this increasingly transactional society where people 'expect' to be 'served' at all times, the idea of supporting your team is increasingly gone. I agree with you 100%. While I feel very sorry for those who are going week in week out right now, the whole idea of support is to support especially in the stadium. No human being ever got better being abused. It's pathetic. And we need to support the players whenever we're at games. Alas people have lost that ideal in this (again) increasingly transactional world.
 
No professional player should be getting the basics wrong. It would be poor at League’s Two level.

Not sure if this is true, but if it is it really is indicative of a poor mindset within this squad.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Here's the thing though mate. IF this is a problem within the dressing room, I expect the manager to sort it out. I expect him to lay down both the lw and an ethos of behaviour and also realign expectations. Of course, that requires the manager himself knowing exactly how to handle situations such as these, but the truth is, Frank is encountering this sort of pressure and expectation for the first time in his career!
Milo reminded me earlier of a time in the summer when, during early interviews, Frank said his first true memory of us was Allan Nielsen and the 99 Worthington Cup Final. It was amusing but concerning at the time. I expect any manager who joins us to know our history and who we are.
 
Last week at the Emirates I called out someone near me for slagging off Richie. As I said to this fan at the time, we were literally 30 seconds into the game. I am not exaggerating, it was literally within the first minute and he was berating Richie. Probably not wrong but I don’t care, you don’t get on a player’s back straight after kick off Some fans come with pre conceived expectations and they are almost waiting to be proved right.

Fantastic!!!!!! Like you, whenever I am near that I always speak up as well. Nice one Glenda!!!!
 
Last week at the Emirates I called out someone near me for slagging off Richie. As I said to this fan at the time, we were literally 30 seconds into the game. I am not exaggerating, it was literally within the first minute and he was berating Richie. Probably not wrong but I don’t care, you don’t get on a player’s back straight after kick off Some fans come with pre conceived expectations and they are almost waiting to be proved right.
You seem to call out a lot of our fans Glenda, it's a good job your hubby doesn't support Spurs (I'm assuming he doesn't go with you to the games?) as I'd imagine him getting into a lot of trouble :D....
 
Milo reminded me earlier of a time in the summer when, during early interviews, Frank said his first true memory of us was Allan Nielsen and the 99 Worthington Cup Final. It was amusing but concerning at the time. I expect any manager who joins us to know our history and who we are.

That's a rather peculiar complaint - I'm not sure our 90s teams were particularly noteworthy to foreign teenagers at the time - what moments during that era should have stood out to him?

My first memory of Spurs was a 5-1 home to Norwich in the early 90s, doesn't mean I'm unaware of what came before does it.

Honestly 😂
 
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Unfortunately in this increasingly transactional society where people 'expect' to be 'served' at all times, the idea of supporting your team is increasingly gone. I agree with you 100%. While I feel very sorry for those who are going week in week out right now, the whole idea of support is to support especially in the stadium. No human being ever got better being abused. It's pathetic. And we need to support the players whenever we're at games. Alas people have lost that ideal in this (again) increasingly transactional world.
I think you're right but, to be fair, it's the other side of the coin. A lot of people (myself included, albeit at a microscopic scale) make a good living out of football. I think the transition occurred somewhere in the 90s, when Klinsmann said he had earned so much money that his kids and grand kids would never have to work. Today, even average footballers are set for life when they quit playing. And that is happening in European societies where the economic pressure on 'average Joes' is getting stronger and stronger (and will get even stronger, but that's another debate).

When you live with a gun metaphorically pointed at your head all week (AI will replace you, you're getting old, your company will close/move somewhere else, your kids aren't good enough at school...), it's not really surprising that people who make a living out of 'playing' are perceived as having it easy (regardless of whether that's true or not). If they don't make it here, they'll still earn a lot of money elsewhere.

I absolutely agree with the last few posts: supporters are a dying breed and they are being replaced with customers, who want to be entertained. Things are different today I hear every mother say... BUT being a football player has little to do with what it was in the 70s and 80s too, if we're being honest: they used to be working-class kids who were good at playing football. Now, they're super athletes who come from all over the world. They have very little identification with their clubs, let alone the local area.

To them, clubs are brands and, at the end of the day, what does it matter if you're sowing shoes for adidas or Puma? It's the same job.

That doesn't make it right to target a player during a game or to insult them at every opportunity, of course. What I'm trying to say is that everything is linked and you can't just say 'it's the fans' or 'it's the club', in my opinion.
 
I think you're right but, to be fair, it's the other side of the coin. A lot of people (myself included, albeit at a microscopic scale) make a good living out of football. I think the transition occurred somewhere in the 90s, when Klinsmann said he had earned so much money that his kids and grand kids would never have to work. Today, even average footballers are set for life when they quit playing. And that is happening in European societies where the economic pressure on 'average Joes' is getting stronger and stronger (and will get even stronger, but that's another debate).

When you live with a gun metaphorically pointed at your head all week (AI will replace you, you're getting old, your company will close/move somewhere else, your kids aren't good enough at school...), it's not really surprising that people who make a living out of 'playing' are perceived as having it easy (regardless of whether that's true or not). If they don't make it here, they'll still earn a lot of money elsewhere.

I absolutely agree with the last few posts: supporters are a dying breed and they are being replaced with customers, who want to be entertained. Things are different today I hear every mother say... BUT being a football player has little to do with what it was in the 70s and 80s too, if we're being honest: they used to be working-class kids who were good at playing football. Now, they're super athletes who come from all over the world. They have very little identification with their clubs, let alone the local area.

To them, clubs are brands and, at the end of the day, what does it matter if you're sowing shoes for adidas or Puma? It's the same job.

That doesn't make it right to target a player during a game or to insult them at every opportunity, of course. What I'm trying to say is that everything is linked and you can't just say 'it's the fans' or 'it's the club', in my opinion.
I'm way past my 19th nervous breakdown, and is it any bloody wonder.
 
Here's the thing though mate. IF this is a problem within the dressing room, I expect the manager to sort it out. I expect him to lay down both the lw and an ethos of behaviour and also realign expectations. Of course, that requires the manager himself knowing exactly how to handle situations such as these, but the truth is, Frank is encountering this sort of pressure and expectation for the first time in his career!
Milo reminded me earlier of a time in the summer when, during early interviews, Frank said his first true memory of us was Allan Nielsen and the 99 Worthington Cup Final. It was amusing but concerning at the time. I expect any manager who joins us to know our history and who we are.

First memory, which makes sense for someone from a different country.

Doesn’t mean he’s not learned more since, I’m sure he has.

I expect there are many many spurs fans who knew nothing about Italian football until Gazza moved there.
 
That's a rather peculiar complaint - I'm not sure our 90s teams were particularly noteworthy to foreign teenagers at the time - what moments during that era should have stood out to him?

Errr, Thomas Frank was 26 in 1999. You don't think even a side which had Jurgen Klinsmann in it 4-5 years before might've been notable? Even to a 22 year old? Anyway, this is getting pedantic. Yes! Absolutely! You have a fine point and not everyone in the world should've been a Spurs expert back then. However, I would expect anyone taking our job to have done their homework and spoken more about the traditions and history of the club in any opening PR gambits.


My first memory of Spurs was a 5-1 home to Norwich in the early 90s, doesn't mean I'm unaware of what came before does it.

If you had applied for, and got, the Spurs job, you might well have picked out that memory as your first, but I also think you'd likely have offered some statements on understanding the rich history of the club, etc. Unless (of course) you hadn't or didn't. Maybe he was just being honest!!! (BTW I remember the game too, was also there - cracker).



Context amigo.
 
First memory, which makes sense for someone from a different country.

Doesn’t mean he’s not learned more since, I’m sure he has.

I expect there are many many spurs fans who knew nothing about Italian football until Gazza moved there.

(sigh)...OK. Perhaps it is acceptable to rock up to your new job and say you didn't really know too much about the club you're now working with beyond a shared Dane in the late '90s. I might well be expecting a little too much with regards to speaking of our history or at least the traditions and ways the club stands for (stood for??????)...
 
So how is Thomas Frank going to use Kulusevski? How is Thomas Frank going to use James Madison next season (assuming he is still here)? Who is Thomas Frank going to use instead of James Madison for at least half of the season when Madders gts hurt again?

Please. If I am missing something here, absolutely educate me.
You're asking the wrong questions. It is that simple.
I am all eyes and willing to learn. Because right now, the style of play Thomas Frank is insisting we use seems very, very far away from anything which would see these players utilised as passers.
How were chelsea in their managers first season? Of course we are very far away from being a polish side. The question is do you show patience and support, or undermine? Every manager who steps into a job with such flux with very little foundation, will need time. Those who can see the big picture aren't fixated by last season, just trying to lower expectations whilst the side rebuilds.
You and others are stuck on the whole '17th last season this is what we expect' etc, etc. Frankly (no pun intended) our league position matters little to me (as long as we don't get sucked into a proper relegation battle - you know, like needing to win at Oldham in late April mid-week to make sure we don't go down style battles) this season, precisely because as you said a new manager needs to be given time to make their identity take hold. When I start to care a whole lot, is when I don't see an identity, or even worse, if what I am being shown in this current situation is the target identity. I do not like this direction. I don't like a side fashioned to win second balls deep, shove the ball wide and rely on a high volume of crosses to score.

Again, we have some gifted players. Xavi. Muani. Kudus. Bergvall. All are players with high technical skill.
Yes, and we need some patience with them as they develop and the side develops a structure and rhythm. Plus you can't expect someone like Simons to be settled from the off, and somehow put that at Franks door. Many many many young players who change league and contry need patience. Why is it different now? Like Frank should negate this settling in period?

Bergval is a perfect example of why the fans need to show more patience. He was the driving force in Paris. And was woeful against Fullham missing a simple block, needlessly committing a foul prior to their second...and almost scoring with a header off the line. He is the best Frank has in midfield right now. Because for all his (normal) mistakes as a young player, at least he has some drive in midfield that Kulu or Madders woudl bring.

Add Romero and Porro to that list. We could set up in ways which make the best of these players. I am not seeing any interest in doing so...
Click your fingers manager is what you're after. Put a job spec together. Must be one somewhere.

So again, I ask you, what am I missing in Thomas Frank's style?
It isn't Frank its your understandable frustration and inability to let go of results for a while. FOcus on comarade, on the singing, on something other than results for half a year!
Show me as every ounce of my personality type is all about giving people time to do their jobs properly, as it is the right thing to do. Unless the job they'll end up doing properly is not the job I want to see done...
How could you know? Unless you give the person time and space and dont undermine them?
 
(sigh)...OK. Perhaps it is acceptable to rock up to your new job and say you didn't really know too much about the club you're now working with beyond a shared Dane in the late '90s. I might well be expecting a little too much with regards to speaking of our history or at least the traditions and ways the club stands for (stood for??????)...
Franks talking gets him into trouble
 
It isn't Frank its your understandable frustration and inability to let go of results for a while. FOcus on comarade, on the singing, on something other than results for half a year!

...I was going to go point by point replying to your post, however I realise that really, THIS particular response proves my point EXACTLY and evrything else is just forum tennis.

Stop seeing what you want to see in my comments, and see what I am saying. And I have said repeatedly that I do not actually give a fudge about poor results IF the manner of play, the style of play, and the intent of play shows some cohesive focus, consistency, and understanding of what THFC is all about (for me at any rate) which is creative, attacking football. You mentioned Maresca's first season (curiously really, he's a totally different manager to Frank) but I'll tell you this, if Frank carried similar conviction and self-belief - even with his horrendous style of play - I'd be more willing to extend my patience by a couple of years. again, please please please try and understand, it is NOT necessarily about results for me, it is about what we are building toward and who we are...or currently aren't.
 
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