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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 78 41.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 111 58.7%
  • Total voters
    189
Welshspur60 said:
Since hes been fit again Moore has mostly been overlooked. Maybe Ange didnt see him show enough in training to warrant getting picked. I hope hes not just snither we have overhyped.
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He is going to be a great player IMO. He was rushed this season. In fact had we not already loaned Donley I bet Moore would've been in U-21s and not blooded so fast. With the pressure of stated mission as the season got to its high point, I'd say it was a combination of protection and not wanting to have to trust him this young. I am of course guessing.
 
thfcsteff said:
...not the first time you've said this to me. I think it is bad form to imply what you have, especially as I am always willing to discuss opposite opinions with anyone as long as it's
a discussion and not the same old stuff. Im fact, precisely because we are back in that weird space on this forum, I was in the process or deleting all my replies to anyone today, however you did reply, so...

I am remarking on those who refuse to accept that contexts have changed with Wed night's win, and who further double-down on stats we all agree are poor to repeat their case/insult people who don't see it their way as somehow being crazy. There are people who now denigrate the trophy he won as being 'lesser' because of 'the quality of opponent'.

I have consistently played the ball. You just think I got the man first, possibly because of your viewing angle? Maybe VAR what I wrote😉
But no worries, it is what it is and we are where we are.
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Contexts have changed? No. You have. Before weds night you were saying he was gone regardless. Now you are saying he has to stay and calling out people for not changing their minds.
 
Lilbaz said:
Contexts have changed? No. You have. Before weds night you were saying he was gone regardless. Now you are saying he has to stay and calling out people for not changing their minds.
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Wrong.
You obviously either don't understand what I said or are just beefing up your own perception of it.

What I said before Wednesday was that IN MY OPINION he was gone regardless.
I based that partially on my own view that no human being could possiblty want to stick around given the tumult and abuse he endured this season, and partially because I believe Levy and co had decided to do the deed regardless - something I STILL feel is the case. I was actually caught off-guard by him saying he did not want to leave, albeit that might just be him making sure he gets paid for his troubles.

I am absolutely not calling ANYONE out for not changing their minds, what I AM calling out is people who behave like anyone who does not believe he should still be sacked is some sort of fool or blind.


So yes, contexts HAVE changed because the geezer WON a trophy, a real one, and our first European one in 41 years. That is a fact!
Whether it changes your opinion or not is none of my business. Indeed, if it hasn't, fine. As is. Whatever.

But he won our first European trophy in 41 years, and yes, that complicates everything. Otherwise he'd already be gone. Again, I will be amazed if Daniel doesn't chop him anyway.
 
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veryoldspur said:
My guess is this is true. Without doubt we will start the season badly, Ange will get sacked, then we will be playing catch up. How Levy can't see this amazes me
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Maybe because it's an opinion you're expressing and he could have another one?

Have you considered the possibility you may be wrong in your assertion?
 
thfcsteff said:
Wrong.
You obviously either don't understand what I said or are just beefing up your own perception of it.

What I said before Wednesday was that IN MY OPINION he was gone regardless.
I based that partially on my onw view that no human being could possiblty want to stick around given the tumult and abuse he endured this season, and partially because I believe Levy and co had decided to do the deed regardless - something I STILL feel is the case. I was actually caught off-guard by him saying he did not want to leave, albeit that might just be him making sure he gets paid for his troubles.

I am absolutely not calling ANYONE out for not changing their minds, what I AM calling out is people who behave like anyone who does not believe he should still be sacked is some sort of fool or blind.


So yes, contexts HAVE changed because the geezer WON a trophy, a real one, and our first European one in 41 years. That is a fact!
Whether it changes your opinion or not is none of my business. Indeed, if it hasn't, fine. As is. Whatever.

But he won our first European trophy in 41 years, and yes, that complicates everything. Otherwise he'd already be gone. Again, I will be amazed if Daniel doesn't chop him anyway.
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As much as I would like to think you are right and Ange will get sacked shortly, I'm guessing that won't be the case, and Levy will waste the first part of the season before removing him. Unlike you I do call out supporters who have changed their minds based on one game against a poor side. It was great winning a trophy, but that doesn't change the fact Ange is out of his depth. We won a trophy based on the fact we played weak sides (Frankfurt the exception) and I believe if we had won the League or the FA cup it would have been a greater achievement.

I realise that my opinions appear negative, but they are realistic. We will not progress as a team until Ange leaves the building
 
veryoldspur said:
My guess is this is true. Without doubt we will start the season badly, Ange will get sacked, then we will be playing catch up. How Levy can't see this amazes me
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He's got a dressing room of players who have been very vocal in their affection and thanks to Ange. You think you're better placed than them as well?
 
thfcsteff said:
Wrong.
You obviously either don't understand what I said or are just beefing up your own perception of it.

What I said before Wednesday was that IN MY OPINION he was gone regardless.
I based that partially on my own view that no human being could possiblty want to stick around given the tumult and abuse he endured this season, and partially because I believe Levy and co had decided to do the deed regardless - something I STILL feel is the case. I was actually caught off-guard by him saying he did not want to leave, albeit that might just be him making sure he gets paid for his troubles.

I am absolutely not calling ANYONE out for not changing their minds, what I AM calling out is people who behave like anyone who does not believe he should still be sacked is some sort of fool or blind.


So yes, contexts HAVE changed because the geezer WON a trophy, a real one, and our first European one in 41 years. That is a fact!
Whether it changes your opinion or not is none of my business. Indeed, if it hasn't, fine. As is. Whatever.

But he won our first European trophy in 41 years, and yes, that complicates everything. Otherwise he'd already be gone. Again, I will be amazed if Daniel doesn't chop him anyway.
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Levy is in a tight spot to be fair. The manager has vastly underperformed in the league, whether knowingly due to focus being elsewhere or otherwise. He's now done a generational thing for us and won a cup. Levy is thus damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he keep Ange and it backfires next season he's a fool. If he sacks him and a new manager starts slowly he's equally a fool.

If Ange has the job come the start of next season, expect the tabloids to be running a constant line on who is being cued up to replace him. The pressure and the odds on him failing are going to be the highest in the league.
 
veryoldspur said:
As much as I would like to think you are right and Ange will get sacked shortly, I'm guessing that won't be the case, and Levy will waste the first part of the season before removing him. Unlike you I do call out supporters who have changed their minds based on one game against a poor side. It was great winning a trophy, but that doesn't change the fact Ange is out of his depth. We won a trophy based on the fact we played weak sides (Frankfurt the exception) and I believe if we had won the League or the FA cup it would have been a greater achievement.

I realise that my opinions appear negative, but they are realistic. We will not progress as a team until Ange leaves the building
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Not sure what you mean there. Is it a positive or a negative???

Regardless...

You think winning the League Cup would've been a bigger achievement? I disagree.
The FA Cup? I disagree.
Factually, in the modern game, any trophy which also brings CL qualification is automatically the greater achievement.

As I have said elsewhere, if Levy chooses to stick with him for any other reason than the footballing staff believe winning that trophy has changed the potential of this group to succeed together, then it'd be the wrong decision.

My own opinions are obvoiusly pretty irrelevant, but I believe between them all they have found both their depth and some vital fortitude. I hope the board/operations have too.
 
Surfless said:
Levy is in a tight spot to be fair. The manager has vastly underperformed in the league, whether knowingly due to focus being elsewhere or otherwise. He's now done a generational thing for us and won a cup. Levy is thus damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he keep Ange and it backfires next season he's a fool. If he sacks him and a new manager starts slowly he's equally a fool.

If Ange has the job come the start of next season, expect the tabloids to be running a constant line on who is being cued up to replace him. The pressure and the odds on him failing are going to be the highest in the league.
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I don't think we'll even need to worry about the media. Many Spurs fans have already decided he needs to go. Imagine what will happen if and when we lose early on in the season?
 
Surfless said:
Levy is in a tight spot to be fair. The manager has vastly underperformed in the league, whether knowingly due to focus being elsewhere or otherwise. He's now done a generational thing for us and won a cup. Levy is thus damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he keep Ange and it backfires next season he's a fool. If he sacks him and a new manager starts slowly he's equally a fool.

If Ange has the job come the start of next season, expect the tabloids to be running a constant line on who is being cued up to replace him. The pressure and the odds on him failing are going to be the highest in the league.
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Not just him, I have severe doubts that there will be some supporters who will also howl at every misplaced pass, etc. It will be the toughest job in football.
 
veryoldspur said:
As much as I would like to think you are right and Ange will get sacked shortly, I'm guessing that won't be the case, and Levy will waste the first part of the season before removing him. Unlike you I do call out supporters who have changed their minds based on one game against a poor side. It was great winning a trophy, but that doesn't change the fact Ange is out of his depth. We won a trophy based on the fact we played weak sides (Frankfurt the exception) and I believe if we had won the League or the FA cup it would have been a greater achievement.

I realise that my opinions appear negative, but they are realistic. We will not progress as a team until Ange leaves the building
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Sorry but how does someone who has just won a European trophy at a club renowned for not winning them deserve the title of being out of his depth ???

He has earned the right to show that the league this season was an anomaly, by winning a competition against his peers and securing champions league football. Like any manager next season he will be a few defeats from the sack at all times, it's the game, after all. However to say he's out of his depth after the post Harry fifth, and the full squad refresh that has happened right before our eyes, then winning the EL, the out of his depth comment has become more tired and irrelevant than it was when used earlier in the season.
 
thfcsteff said:
Not just him, I have severe doubts that there will be some supporters who will also howl at every misplaced pass, etc. It will be the toughest job in football.
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This is why we will never push on, like @glasgowspur said the fans are as much of the problem as anyone. Actually remind me of what I was like with women for years, didn't know what I wanted - 'I just want to win trophies' followed by 'I don't care about trophies, I just want to see good football' Now we've won a European trophy it's I just want to see us be top 5-8 - Oh I can't wait for these glory days coming up :D

Even with Poch by the end there was a large portion wanting him gone at the first bad period we had. What will happen is whenever the new manager comes in we will have a decent few months, perhaps qualify for Europe and it will be all 'See this is what a decent manager can do' and then the next season expectations will be higher, and we will end up reverting to type and coming to the realisation that Frank or whoever isn't the second coming and the fans will soon get fed up of his football. And then our wonderful managerial cycle can go round spinning once again....
 
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