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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

LutonSpurs said:
I'd suggest Starmer is to the right of Thatcher on ecomomy and the EU in particular. Says a lot about where we are.
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GB energy and the incremental renationalisation of buses and trains suggests not the former. But the carbon capture fallacy and not renationalising water are a very long way from Keynesian Labour
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
They had to be.
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Nothing has to be. It's about choices. He has reneged on so many manifesto commitments I'm sure he could on his Brexit one.

Its economic self harm.

But his method is all optics and he wants to appeal to the much of the xenophobic base that was appealed to by Brexit. This is at the cost of the whole nation's prosperity.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Nothing has to be. It's about choices. He has reneged on so many manifesto commitments I'm sure he could on his Brexit one.

Its economic self harm.

But his method is all optics and he wants to appeal to the much of the xenophobic base that was appealed to by Brexit. This is at the cost of the whole nation's prosperity.
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The brexit stuff is more fundamental than other stuff. What would reneging on it even look like? Just applying to rejoining the EU without a referendum? The Labour Party would probably implode in the resulting infighting. Plus, joining the EU now would look very different from what we left. We'd have to join the euro for example. The ship has sailed, something that Starmer himself has rightly acknowledged. And apart from anything else, it's only the fanatics that have any interest in rerunning all the toxic arguments we had to endure from 2016 to 2020.

As to economic self-harm, the world as we know it has ended. That's what a senior treasury official said on the news this morning when answering whether we are seeing the end of globalisation that has characterised the last few decades. Trump has blown the economic consensus out the water. If we were in the EU we'd be staring down the barrel of >20% US tariffs and the direct Ire of the world's foremost economy. We'd be staring down the abyss basically.
 
Honestly- if anyone thinks Trump will not wake up tomorrow or the day after and slap on more tariffs to countries at random - including the U.K.- they haven’t been listening.

They have zero integrity in their relationships, the President has a sexual assault conviction and was still elected. Musk has kids with women he employs and on and on.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I'd suggest Starmer is to the right of Thatcher on ecomomy and the EU in particular. Says a lot about where we are.
Click to expand...

Gutter Boy said:
GB energy and the incremental renationalisation of buses and trains suggests not the former. But the carbon capture fallacy and not renationalising water are a very long way from Keynesian Labour
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This is a good 7 minute watch on how the political needle has swung over the last generation.

 
Silly McSilly Face said:
The brexit stuff is more fundamental than other stuff. What would reneging on it even look like? Just applying to rejoining the EU without a referendum? The Labour Party would probably implode in the resulting infighting. Plus, joining the EU now would look very different from what we left. We'd have to join the euro for example. The ship has sailed, something that Starmer himself has rightly acknowledged. And apart from anything else, it's only the fanatics that have any interest in rerunning all the toxic arguments we had to endure from 2016 to 2020.

As to economic self-harm, the world as we know it has ended. That's what a senior treasury official said on the news this morning when answering whether we are seeing the end of globalisation that has characterised the last few decades. Trump has blown the economic consensus out the water. If we were in the EU we'd be staring down the barrel of >20% US tariffs and the direct Ire of the world's foremost economy. We'd be staring down the abyss basically.
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These are, indeed, incredible times in that regard. To see a whole economic system dynamically thrust upon the world and then effectively battered into submission within four decades is staggering.
 
thfcsteff said:
These are, indeed, incredible times in that regard. To see a whole economic system dynamically thrust upon the world and then effectively battered into submission within four decades is staggering.
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Yeah, and it's not actually just Trump, he is just the most extreme example. The EU pushing back on Chinese car imports under pressure from German and French manufacturers is a symptom of increasing protectionism. As is French pressure on the EU to ban the clearing of euro transactions outside the eurozone, in order to try and end London's dominance over the currency. The main proponents of globalism (US and western Europe) have been turning their backs on it over the last 5 years and Trump has merely accelerated that process. This is intertwined with a broader public push-back on current volumes of global migration, which has been a key underlying aspect of globalisation.

There's been a general public revolt against globalisation in the west and it's been seeping through to the political consensus and policy.
 
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