Why can't we break teams down?

[Jurgen the German]

Before anyone starts, this is not an anti AVB thread. We had the same problems under Redknapp even when we had Modric and VDV, we still struggled to break teams down that sit back when they come to the lane.

For me, a big factor is the movement of our strikers, it isn't good enough basically. We've been crying out for a replacement for Berbatov for more than 4 years now! We need someone who can make more intelligent runs. Someone like Llorente would be ideal for us, his intelligence, his link up play and vision would improve us in that aspect.

I think the fans play a big part too. Many players and teams have come out and said they know exactly how to play against Spurs at WHL, i.e. sit back and frustrate them and the crowd are bound to turn on them.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Definitely agree about the movement.
Also thing we rely too much on crosses from two wingers and full backs. Its so predictable for opposition centre halves to know cross after cross is gonna come in, they get used to it. We put in 39 crosses today!

 

[Wriggly]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Before anyone starts, this is not an anti AVB thread. We had the same problems under Redknapp even when we had Modric and VDV, we still struggled to break teams down that sit back when they come to the lane.

For me, a big factor is the movement of our strikers, it isn't good enough basically. We've been crying out for a replacement for Berbatov for more than 4 years now! We need someone who can make more intelligent runs. Someone like Llorente would be ideal for us, his intelligence, his link up play and vision would improve us in that aspect.

I think the fans play a big part too. Many players and teams have come out and said they know exactly how to play against Spurs at WHL, i.e. sit back and frustrate them and the crowd are bound to turn on them.

I take that as a compliment, and as for the teams doing that, its a very risky tactic to do.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

We lost a lot of our movement with Modric. The way he would move with the ball would open up the passing options, and his moving would open up the passing options for others.


At times today Lennon was nowhere to be found, the ball would make it's way across to the right, but Sandro would have to hold onto it until Walker had moved up the pitch, and then Walker had no support because Lennon was Awol. It's these types of situations that slow down our play and allow the opposition players to get back into position.


If you're going to switch the ball across your midfield, you have to take advantage of it quickly, otherwise you just end up passing for the sake of passing, instead of passing to move the opposition players around.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

I take that as a compliment, and as for the teams doing that, its a very risky tactic to do.

Seems to work for some teams though, although it backfired on Swansea last week. Makes a massive difference if we get an early goal, teams then have to come out and have a go.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

We lost a lot of our movement with Modric. The way he would move with the ball would open up the passing options, and his moving would open up the passing options for others.


At times today Lennon was nowhere to be found, the ball would make it's way across to the right, but Sandro would have to hold onto it until Walker had moved up the pitch, and then Walker had no support because Lennon was Awol. It's these types of situations that slow down our play and allow the opposition players to get back into position.


If you're going to switch the ball across your midfield, you have to take advantage of it quickly, otherwise you just end up passing for the sake of passing, instead of passing to move the opposition players around.

But we still struggled even with Modric in our side. Must be a bigger issue than that.

 

[Spursman]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

We don't move the ball quick enough

Sitting behind the goal every week it's obvious our strikers don't move. They aren't intelligent enough

 

[DMac]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Last season when our front 4 of VDV, Bale, Lennon, and Adebayor were playing to their best, we could break teams down. I think VDV would absolutely make a difference to us if he were still here. I would take him back tomorrow if it were up to me.

I think the movement of our strikers is ok, it is more the passing of players behind our strikers that is a problem. I remember at one point when Gylfi made a really good run off the ball when Walker had it, Walker of course didn't recognize it and I just thought to myself 'Siggy you are wasting your time because Walker will never pick out that pass.' I think that is a problem right now - a dumb fullback on the right side, and a CB playing as LB on the left side. Breaking down teams like Stoke requires smart, overlapping fullbacks, and we have one in Benny but we need someone better on the right. I just don't think Walker is very good. He can't even pass it to open players when there is no pressure on them, he can't send in good crosses, and he doesn't have the footballing intelligence to play intricately in the opposition third.

We also need CB's who can play it out from the back. We have Kaboul, Vertonghen, and Caulker who can all do so, but that asset in the back 4 is ruined by Walker and Dawson who can't play it out of the back to save their life, even when playing teams like Stoke where there is not much pressure on our defense, they just hoof it to nowhere. That's a problem.

We also need a little bit less selfishness and narcissism from a couple of players (Defoe and Bale).

Imo we should always play 4-3-3, not 4-4-2, Benny and Naughton should be the fullbacks, Bale, Ade, Lennon front 3, and a midfield of Sandro/Parker, Dembele, and Carroll/Sigurdsson/Dempsey. Then I think we may start to break teams down better.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

It's fairly simple.

Our team is built around pace, you take away the space and the pace means nothing. We have unintelligent players in the final third. Lennon thinks like a greyhound, Defoe thinks like a hitman, Bale thinks like a train, Ade is a little smarter but isn't playing well at the moment. There's no guile or craft to our play, there's not much thought to our attacking play other than run down the line fast, cross it in and see what happens ... this is the effect of taking the brains(Modric and VDV) out of the team, it's not entirely down to that but it plays a big part.

Lets not pretend like this is something new though, it's been one of our biggest weaknesses for a while now.

 

[Simon_B]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

We don't move the ball quick enough

Sitting behind the goal every week it's obvious our strikers don't move. They aren't intelligent enough

Totally agree with you and IMO it started at the back with Walker, Dawson, Caulker and Lloris who did a poor job of playing the ball to the midfield. I can understand AVB chose to play Vertonghen at left back due to the aerial threat from Stoke, but we sorely missed his ability to play the ball out from central defence.

Although i like that AVB uses 4-4-2 at times I think we would benefit from playing with a creative player in the hole against teams that just sit back. We simply don't create enough clear cut chances compared to the other top teams.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Totally agree with you and IMO it started at the back with Walker, Dawson, Caulker and Lloris who did a poor job of playing the ball to the midfield. I can understand AVB chose to play Vertonghen at left back due to the aerial threat from Stoke, but we sorely missed his ability to play the ball out from central defence.

Although i like that AVB uses 4-4-2 at times I think we would benefit from playing with a creative player in the hole against teams that just sit back. We simply don't create enough clear cut chances compared to the other top teams.

If the midfield do not make themselves available, how are the defenders supposed to pass to them?


I'd also want Lloris stricken from that. I felt today was the best i'd seen him give out possession. A number of extremely accurate long throws that i'd like to see more of in the future.

 

[milo]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Quality of players. All of the teams who finished above us last season (and several that finished below) had a forward who could create something out of nothing. We don't.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Quality of players. All of the teams who finished above us last season (and several that finished below) had a forward who could create something out of nothing. We don't.

Defoe can every now and then, but his overall play isn't great. I'm still unconvinced about Adebayor. You have to ask why both Emirates Marketing Project and Arsenal let him go. It can't just be that he caused trouble at those clubs because Emirates Marketing Project have remained patient with Balotelli, who also causes trouble.

 

[kroakie123]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

We do have the playing staff to break teams down however at this stage of the season it would be far to risky, to alter a playing system which so far is doing well for us. However as i mentioned earlier on the omt i believe AVB needs to become more courageous and flexible in his approach toward who plays week in week out. Undoubtedly Dembele and Sandro are top draw, however the thought of them starting each and every home game is becoming a bit cumbersome, considering that none of them have the capability to "playmake" and create that so needed drive from midfield that i think so far this season we've been lacking. For the next few home games, I would personally play hudd and dembele as a cm pairing, at least that'll give our attacks some much needed variation, plus it'll take some of the pressure off our wide-men who i believe are shouldering to much responsibility for are attacking impetus.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Whereas of course great teams like Barcelona NEVER struggle to break down teams that park the bus down (cough Chelsea, cough cough Celtic).

 

[suffolkspur]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

I think we had players last season who were suited to playing a certain way. The first half of the season we hit teams on the break with pace although we were also very comfortable maintaining possession drawing teams out and then exposing them when the chance arose. Teams got wise to this dropped deep and took away our biggest attacking strength and in the 2nd half we struggled much like we did today. There were games which from a possession standpoint we dominated but chances were few and far between. We were reliant on moments of brilliance from players to score.

In all honesty i don't think much has changed. I would argue this year we are worse off with the loss of VDV (scoring) and Modric (picking that killer pass) we have lost 2 players who could change a game in an instant. Swansea dropped deep last week and we struggled to open them up although thankfully scored from a set piece. Stoke dropped deep today and we had the same problem.

As well as the loss of game changers i also think we lack players with intelligence and composure when we are in the final third. So many times in the past couple of seasons we have got in and around the box and a player has smashed a ball wide when a simple pass could have led to someone else passing the ball into the net or we have looked for a pass when we should have taken a shot on. I think Lennon lacks in this area and Defoe as well although he will score a decent amount of goals.

Personally i believe the only thing that will improve this is through us bringing in a couple of top players to give us a bit more quality. Whether they are available or we can afford them is another matter.

 

[AdamB]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Pretty stupid question is you ask me. Its perfectly obvious. We have no creativity in the final third, in and around the box. We've had it in the last couple years in Rafa however since we sold him we have no-one in the really advanced, central areas who can unpick a defence. Adebayor and Defoe are good however neither are craetive nor clever whilst Bale and Lennon rely on pcae and play out wide and Dembele is best player deep.

We need to bring in a Rafa-replacement in Jan. Dempsey is an 'effort' player rather than a clever player and SIggy isnt up to the standard yet

 

[Park Lane James]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

I think we lack a plan B (and have done for some time now) - something that we can go to when the brick hits the fan and we need to break down these teams that sit back against us. There's nothing wrong with the odd long ball up field if we have someone like Adebayor up front - it can stretch a defence and enable us to exploit their backline with some variation. I also feel that there isn't enough movement up front, the sort of runs that will bring a defender out of position and allow the advancing wingers to exploit. Without movement up front (and wide), the midfielders hold onto the ball too long and the defence can organise themselves and put some sort of pressure on the ball carrier. This is something that I feel Dembele is a bit guilty of.

While I enjoy the fact that we're starting to keep a few more clean sheets, this team is still very much in the infancy when it comes to going forward. We haven't got the players that AVB desires, and it is up to him to find a way of it working for us before we start to lose pace with the others.

 

[AdamB]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

Quality of players. All of the teams who finished above us last season (and several that finished below) had a forward who could create something out of nothing. We don't.

Exactly. We used to have Rafa who could do that. WE need a similar player whether thats willian or someone else - just someone who can create something out of nothing whether through a brain like Rafa's or quick feet a la Willian

 

[charlietheyid]

Re: We can't we break teams down?

I said this in the other thread, we are much stronger in midfield with Sandro and Dembele blocking the midfield well and pressing well. We give them no space in the middle and that could mark the end of these long shots we use to concede leaving the opposition avance unattacked.

But that makes us lack creativity in the middle, they dont have that pass to break a defense down.

With Lennon doing nothing every game and Bale not so sharp at the moment, we just cant give service to defoe and Adebayor.

So maybe, with sandro and dembele, we need to play 4-5-1 with a n°10 in front of them and drop Ade as his form is awful.