Where did this all begin - are we to blame?

[NWND]

When you have the manager of the opposition claiming post-match that the White Hart Lane atmosphere helped his team, and reading the various post-match reports in the papers, most of the journo's are pretty shocked that "Spurs fans are booing already".

Yes, it was a pretty shocking performance all-round, but we've all seen them before.

It's very early days with the new management, new system and what-not.

But for the last few seasons, the atmosphere at WHL has been more of a problem for us than the opposition. Far form being a fortress, teams love to come to WHL, sit-back, frustrate the home crowd and then feed off the poisonous atmosphere as our players go into their shells, worried about trying something that might not come off and having to listen to the chorus of boos , groans and moans.

The flat and deathly quiet atmosphere punctured by sporadic moaning, groaning and the odd "Come on you Spurs" chant.

It probably is the worst atmosphere in the PL in terms of its affect on the home team and of actually encouraging the opposition.

There is also a split and devisive atmosphere amongst fans. I've seen fights break out between Spurs fans at games in the last few seasons.

The fans were divided on Redknapp, they were divided on AVB and now there are a group of Spurs fans i know that far from seeing Pochettino as an intelligent choice with a proven record in the Premiership, see him as the "cheap option" taken by Levy when they wanted Louis Van Gaal, Frank De Boer or some big name and basically there are a section of fans i am aware of that aren't prepared to give Pochettino a chance and are waiting for the poor performances they fully expect to unload their frustrations at him and the team.

This frustrates and angers the fans that want to give him time (as it did when AVB was here) and I'm trying to pin-point when this sour, negative atmosphere began, but I think it came about with the sacking of Martin Jol and has never really recovered since. However things were still pretty positive under Ramos and then the early days of Redknapp, but as sad as it is to say, ultimately i think i'm pin-pointing this down to our one season in the Champions League and a sense of entitlement and " you lot have to give me something to cheer about otherwise i'm just sniping at you the whole match" mentality.

 

[Raziel]

It's expectation and the media enforced "either you make CL or your club is doomed" self inflicted pressure.

Truth is, Tottenham survived for a long time with out even Europa participation, it is harder than ever to qualify for CL but the club will survive.

We need to stop this "are we 1 point behind where we were last season ****" and just enjoy watching a Spurs team with a talented squad (vs. some of the dross we have had to endure), and wait to later in the season to stress about every game/goal/etc.

Does anyone actually think they are going to enjoy next week's derby? it is now something to dread for most.

With our inability to enjoy, so has gone our ability to support (create the atmosphere) completely.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I've said this in another thread, it's far too simplistic to blame our awful home support.

Can someone perhaps answer how Emirates Marketing Project, United, Arsenal and Chelsea manage to win the majority of their homes despite an equally bad (if not worse) atmosphere?

 

[Finney Is Back]

When you have the manager of the opposition claiming post-match that the White Hart Lane atmosphere helped his team, and reading the various post-match reports in the papers, most of the journo's are pretty shocked that "Spurs fans are booing already".

Yes, it was a pretty shocking performance all-round, but we've all seen them before.

It's very early days with the new management, new system and what-not.

But for the last few seasons, the atmosphere at WHL has been more of a problem for us than the opposition. Far form being a fortress, teams love to come to WHL, sit-back, frustrate the home crowd and then feed off the poisonous atmosphere as our players go into their shells, worried about trying something that might not come off and having to listen to the chorus of boos , groans and moans.

The flat and deathly quiet atmosphere punctured by sporadic moaning, groaning and the odd "Come on you Spurs" chant.

It probably is the worst atmosphere in the PL in terms of its affect on the home team and of actually encouraging the opposition.

There is also a split and devisive atmosphere amongst fans. I've seen fights break out between Spurs fans at games in the last few seasons.

The fans were divided on Redknapp, they were divided on AVB and now there are a group of Spurs fans i know that far from seeing Pochettino as an intelligent choice with a proven record in the Premiership, see him as the "cheap option" taken by Levy when they wanted Louis Van Gaal, Frank De Boer or some big name and basically there are a section of fans i am aware of that aren't prepared to give Pochettino a chance and are waiting for the poor performances they fully expect to unload their frustrations at him and the team.

This frustrates and angers the fans that want to give him time (as it did when AVB was here) and I'm trying to pin-point when this sour, negative atmosphere began, but I think it came about with the sacking of Martin Jol and has never really recovered since. However things were still pretty positive under Ramos and then the early days of Redknapp, but as sad as it is to say, ultimately i think i'm pin-pointing this down to our one season in the Champions League and a sense of entitlement and " you lot have to give me something to cheer about otherwise i'm just sniping at you the whole match" mentality.

Our crowd is no worse than those at the other established PL teams. Give us something to get behind and we get behind it. Give us a limp, lethargic performance and we'll moan and grumble.... The boos yesterday came at the end of the match. After a team of players who cost a lot of money and are earning vast amounts were both out fought and out played by a team who both cost, and earn, a lot less. This was a team who came to WHL and didn't look to get behind the ball and frustrate us, but instead played two up front and were happy to take us on and try to beat us by closing down space and then playing football when in possession.

 

[nerdved]

Excellent topic, should be mandatory reading.

I find that the all too common feeling of entitlement should be avoided like the plague. That holds for all aspects of life, not just football.

 

[Dr Rosenrosen]

Our crowd is no worse than those at the other established PL teams. Give us something to get behind and we get behind it. Give us a limp, lethargic performance and we'll moan and grumble....

Bingo. I'll bet that quite literally I could find similar sentiments as those in the original post from the fan forums of every PL team.

 

[billyiddo]

I've said this in another thread, it's far too simplistic to blame our awful home support.

Can someone perhaps answer how Emirates Marketing Project, United, Arsenal and Chelsea manage to win the majority of their homes despite an equally bad (if not worse) atmosphere?

whilst their atmospheres aren't great i don't think they are as negative as ours.

 

[nerdved]

Can someone perhaps answer how Emirates Marketing Project, United, Arsenal and Chelsea manage to win the majority of their homes despite an equally bad (if not worse) atmosphere?

The clubs you mentioned are either underperforming massively wrt their squads (United), or performing slightly below par wrt their squads (the other three). They are winning because the talent at their disposal far eclipses anything the likes of us can hope to field.

At the moment, we are also underperforming even when taking the quality of player material into account. Now, why is that? Proably a number of factors. But to rule out the effect of a toxic stadium atmosphere is just stupid. Why make excuses for **** support? I don't get it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

whilst their atmospheres aren't great i don't think they are as negative as ours.

When they put in a performance as poor as ours was yesterday they are even more negative I think.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I was there yesterday and the atmosphere was just a standard atmosphere for a sunday lunchtime game against a Premier League also ran. It wasn't at all poisonous, more an atmosphere of boredom really, brought on by pretty much zero chances being created.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Remember though:

- Our away fans are always fantastic
- UEFA and domestic cup home games tend to be pretty good too
- The Ledley testimonial was the best atmosphere WHL has seen in more than 2 decades

Home league games are the issue. Not all games, or even all home games.

 

[jimmyb]

I was there yesterday and the atmosphere was just a standard atmosphere for a sunday lunchtime game against a Premier League also ran. It wasn't at all poisonous, more an atmosphere of boredom really, brought on by pretty much zero chances being created.

This.

There were a few impatient or exasperated groans when a pass went astray or when an opportunity to threaten wasn't taken. And there was an entirely justifiable, little boooo at the final whistle (though hardly very loud or widespread).

But there was nothing negative or poisonous about the atmosphere overall.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

My first thought when Morrison scored for The Albion was:

"We're gonna win 2-1."

Seriously. I thought that goal would fire up our players and bring out the best - and the beasts - in all of them. I didn't think they would be content going home handsome losers. The best wins often come from the direst circumstances.

Remember when we beat Arsenal 3-2 after being down at the half? That would have been an easy game to quit emotionally. Hell, we didn't win this other game at Arsenal, but the magic of THAT 4-4 draw when we battled back from 4-2 down late on was spine-tingling. Same with the great 4-3 win at West Ham when Paul Stalteri intercepted a ball at our box then raced the length of the pitch to snap home Jermain Defoe's rebound and steal victory. We trailed constantly in that game.

Nothing that goes wrong in a Spurs game gets me down. We won our last trophy, the league cup, at Wembley after being down a goal and a sneer from Didier Dogbreath and battled long and hard to win. Glorious.

Nothing with Spurs will change dramatically until the new stadium is up and running. Until then, support them realistically and count your blessings in life.

 

[Modric THFC]

If this is true we need to get players you aren't affected by an atmosphere.
Anyone who cant handle it simply isnt up to it mentally.

 

[NWND]

I've said this in another thread, it's far too simplistic to blame our awful home support.

Can someone perhaps answer how Emirates Marketing Project, United, Arsenal and Chelsea manage to win the majority of their homes despite an equally bad (if not worse) atmosphere?

Their fans are quiet until roused but I don't ever think an opposition manager has openly talked about an atmosphere that helps their own players!! Those teams fans aren't hostile to their own players like I see from our support

 

[nerdved]

If this is true we need to get players you aren't affected by an atmosphere.
Anyone who cant handle it simply isnt up to it mentally.

Your 'if' being "if our home support really is that ****", right?
If so, I can think of one quite obvious fix that does not involve buying a new set of (presumably deaf) players.

 

[DHSF]

If this is true we need to get players you aren't affected by an atmosphere.
Anyone who cant handle it simply isnt up to it mentally.

I think its a mentality thing but what do I know. The thing is though its give and take. Fans need something to shout about but if the players show no effort or commitment then yep that directly impacts the fans. Even in poor performances a few good hard tackles and fans are up on their feet applauding and commending - why? because its a bit of effort and commitment being shown.

If players arent good enough thats one thing (thats the Manager, DoF and Levy to blame) but if its a lack of commitment and effort then its down to the players.

 

[billyiddo]

When they put in a performance as poor as ours was yesterday they are even more negative I think.

well either way a negative atmosphere isn't helpful and fortunately for these clubs they rarely experience them, us on the other hand...

 

[jimmyb]

Their fans are quiet until roused but I don't ever think an opposition manager has openly talked about an atmosphere that helps their own players!! Those teams fans aren't hostile to their own players like I see from our support

Trust me, there was nothing negative about the atmosphere yesterday. It was a bit flat but nothing worse than that. If Alan Irvine claimed otherwise, then he's talking out of his ****.

 

[Shelfie]

I've thought for many years that our home fans are awful for the most part, and a couple of years ago, after regularly having 'heated debates' about the lack of passion of those seated around me, I decided to give up going, after 50 years of going to the Lane. I'm a child of the terraces, I'm used to shouting and singing, not sitting there moaning, analyzing, 'concentrating on the game'.

If I want to analyse and do amateur punditry it's cheaper and more instructive to do it at home. To me a fan at the game has one prime duty, to give the team encouragement and discourage (legally) the oppo.