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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

Even at our miniscule level - the amount of chirping and winding up that goes on the field is 'sickening' at times. I've heard things I wouldn't even considering calling my worst enemies. But it often works both ways. And it's at all levels.

We can only speculate as to who started what that day but I'm certain Suarez didn't simply run to him out of the blue and called him names.
 
mick cooper said:
not at all. I agree 100% with your comment
The comment you appear to have got your Y fronts in a mangle over, was directed at Arcwelder, who is from South Africa

where the biggest racists on the planet come from, and they are both black and white in origin.
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Apologies. Natural reaction was that you'd disagree with me. Actually, we've been agreeing with each other a lot lately. This must end.
 
ArcspacE said:
Even at our miniscule level - the amount of chirping and winding up that goes on the field is 'sickening' at times. I've heard things I wouldn't even considering calling my worst enemies. But it often works both ways. And it's at all levels.

We can only speculate as to who started what that day but I'm certain Suarez didn't simply run to him out of the blue and called him names.
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I agree.

But Surarez crossed a line. A line that Evra didn't cross. A line that is there for a reason and that if you cross it punishment will be coming your way.

Throwing around horrible insults is accepted, throwing around racist insults isn't accepted.

Questioning Evra is fine, but only if you're also ready to question what other players at all levels say at almost every other match. If not, saying that he isn't innocent really isn't relevant.
 
Superted said:
Apologies. Natural reaction was that you'd disagree with me. Actually, we've been agreeing with each other a lot lately. This must end.
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I'm happy to agree and disagree with you

we don't have to have totally convergent views, 100% of the time.

As long as the love we share never dies, I'll be happy.
 
braineclipse said:
I agree.

But Surarez crossed a line. A line that Evra didn't cross. A line that is there for a reason and that if you cross it punishment will be coming your way.

Throwing around horrible insults is accepted, throwing around racist insults isn't accepted.

Questioning Evra is fine, but only if you're also ready to question what other players at all levels say at almost every other match. If not, saying that he isn't innocent really isn't relevant.
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Yes, absolutely but I think the argument here has been largerly centered around the innocent victim - who at the same time can also be considered the provocator. Undobtedly - Suarez was out of line and could have 'responded' much more politely
 
Superted said:
All I'm trying to say is that I think it's a bit rich when a white, straight, able-bodied, able-minded male who has never been subject to discrimination in their lives cry racism at the thought of being called a name. I'm in that boat, if some black guy called me a white clam, I honestly couldn't care less.
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Wouldn't this depend hugely on the setting? Assuming you're English or from some other country where white people find themselves in the majority most of the time.

What if you were on holiday in or moved to some country where you were in a small minority and people called you "white clam", possibly even repeatedly?

What if you were at a party where you were in a small minority and one or two people came up to you at different times during the party and called you "white clam"?

Still couldn't care less?
 
ArcspacE said:
Yes, absolutely but I think the argument here has been largerly centered around the innocent victim - who at the same time can also be considered the provocator. Undobtedly - Suarez was out of line and could have 'responded' much more politely
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I haven't been getting that vibe at all. But I might have misinterpreted the situation based on my own views.

It's not about being polite at all. There wouldn't have been a reaction like this if Suarez had responded by calling Evra a white flag waving, frog eating, son of a kitten. Although that wouldn't have been particularly polite.

It's about how the comment from Suarez at the very least can be interpreted as a racist one. And that is a line he crossed, and one that he got punished for. Evra on the other hand didn't cross that line.
 
braineclipse said:
Wouldn't this depend hugely on the setting? Assuming you're English or from some other country where white people find themselves in the majority most of the time.

What if you were on holiday in or moved to some country where you were in a small minority and people called you "white clam", possibly even repeatedly?

What if you were at a party where you were in a small minority and one or two people came up to you at different times during the party and called you "white clam"?

Still couldn't care less?
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Thats some fun party you are describing

I think most people would leave a party full of ignorant revellers, but the point is that the white bit, is probably the biggest irrelevance

and you are missing the fact that in sport its called sledging, and is generally ignored anyway - certainly by people bright enough to understand the reason for it

(sorry, I'm not trying to answer for Ted, that was my take on it)
 
braineclipse said:
Wouldn't this depend hugely on the setting? Assuming you're English or from some other country where white people find themselves in the majority most of the time.

What if you were on holiday in or moved to some country where you were in a small minority and people called you "white clam", possibly even repeatedly?

What if you were at a party where you were in a small minority and one or two people came up to you at different times during the party and called you "white clam"?

Still couldn't care less?
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Well of course that makes it different but you're emphasizing my point. In a position where I am in the minority and am prejudiced against, then the slur would take on more significant weight. But the discussions about Suarez and Evra in the English Premier League, so that's the way I'm looking at it.

If I was playing a football game here in Australia and a black opponent called me a white clam, I'd probably laugh it off. In fact I'm sure it's probably happened once or twice, because I am white (and a bit of a clam, especially on the pitch).
 
mick cooper said:
Thats some fun party you are describing

I think most people would leave a party full of ignorant revellers, but the point is that the white bit, is probably the biggest irrelevance

and you are missing the fact that in sport its called sledging, and is generally ignored anyway - certainly by people bright enough to understand the reason for it

(sorry, I'm not trying to answer for Ted, that was my take on it)
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I'm sure I could have thought up more subtle examples.

For me racism is one of the clearest ways of being ignorant and not irrelevant.

Are you saying that in sports even blatantly racist comments are and should be ignored and just seen as "sledging"?

Superted said:
Well of course that makes it different but you're emphasizing my point. In a position where I am in the minority and am prejudiced against, then the slur would take on more significant weight. But the discussions about Suarez and Evra in the English Premier League, so that's the way I'm looking at it.

If I was playing a football game here in Australia and a black opponent called me a white clam, I'd probably laugh it off. In fact I'm sure it's probably happened once or twice, because I am white (and a bit of a clam, especially on the pitch).
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We probably agree. I just don't like when white people who live in a large majority say "well, I don't care if someone's racist against me" as if it's a relevant comparison to a discussion about racism directed at minorities that have until very recently experienced public racism as a part of life.

That being said, racism from minorities directed at majorities is a problem as well, certainly doesn't do anything to solve the problem of racism.
 
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