Thoughts from yesterday

[Jurgen the German]

I didn't post on here yesterday as I was too tinkled off after getting home from the game.

Chelsea were appalling during the minutes "silence".

We are far too negative when we play against the top teams. It took Emirates Marketing Project scoring against us at Eastlands before we decided to have a go. At home when we play, we go for it regardless of who we are playing against. We should adopt the same philosophy away from WHL. Obviously you have to be cautious sometimes when playing away and weather the storm, but attacking is our strength so we should always play to it. I hope the next manager adopts this strategy, whoever it is.

6 semi final defeats in a row now! We have a good (or did have until we decided to loan out half of it), but we still lack the mentality against some of the bigger sides and we can't seem to hack it playing in more than one competition.

I have not seen the highlights or seen any interviews or read any interviews from by anyone from the club. I would actually respect Redknapp if he came out and said you know what, yesterday we weren't good enough. The players need to look at themselves because we ain't been good enough for two months now.

Diabolical officiating again yesterday. I'm not blaming our defeat on them cos we were embarassing yesterday, but the standard of officiating this season has hit an all time low since my time watching football and has been atrocious this season!

I would like to see us move for Brendan Rogers in the summer. He'd get us playing good football at least. He's the most realistic choice of all the candidates that we've been linked with.

I've been one of Redknapp's biggest apologists on this forum. There's no doubt he's been our best manager in 20 years or so, but yesterday was quite frankly embarassing. I appreciate what he's done for us, but in all fairness, he has at worst the 4th best squad in the league so we should be in and around the top 4.

I would like to see Levy spend some money next season. We need to buy a striker, cover for Lennon, cover for Walker, cover for Ekotto, a centre half, probably a midfielder to replace Modric. I'd go for someone like Sigurdsson to start with. Goes without saying our list of transfer targets depends on where we finish.

Is anyone else had enough of football this season? Our recent form, the tinkle poor standard from the refs and our incredible bad luck has really put me off football for the time being.

 

[SDOGG11]

Yep, feeling really disillusioned with it at the moment.
Been waiting for weeks to start feeling better about Spurs and it hasn't happened. It's actually getting progressively worse and I don't know how.

 

[braineclipse]

I think people are being too harsh on the team and on Harry.

We were the better team in the first half. Putting out a 4-5-1/4-3-3 team, make sure we weren't over-run in midfield (or being negative if you prefer) was the right thing to do. We just needed a bit of luck, or rather Chelsea not being lucky. Or, we need a better striker. Drogba is still a very good striker, he gave them the lead from nothing when we deserved being ahead already. Very little Harry, or even most of the players could do about that.

The goal helped them grow in confidence, that's normal. Then of course the ref needs to take the blame for 2-0. We reacted quite well I though, and got it back to 2-1, should have been 1-1 and despite being unlucky we should have been in a good position. Instead we were still chasing and struggling. Harry went 4-4-2, I wasn't super happy about it as I thought VdV had done well, but we had to go for it. We needed Ade, Defoe have never played well as a lone striker, Lennon and Bale gave us width and VdV in central midfield would have been suicidal. So he took of VdV to go for it. I can understand that.

Then the ****s scored 3-1 and we collapsed a bit at the end. Even at 3-1 though we just needed a goal to make it interesting. These things happen to just about every team in the world.

Very disappointing - like you Jurgen I stayed away from the forum last night - was fuming walking home from the pub. Ref is a ****. Chelsea are ****s, I hope Barca absolutely crush them. Chelsea fans are a disgrace, delighted I'm not a Chelsea fan. Despite all that though I don't think the team deserves all the vitriol being aimed at them on here after the game and still.

 

[Howard Webb]

the vitriol is coming from being beaten by a bunch of arseholes. If we had lost to just drogbas goal, I would have been angry but at least it was a moment of class, even if it was a terrible schoolboy by Gallas.

We did fine up to about 75 minutes

 

[funster]

I don't think we were embarrassing. Just..... well..... compared to the standards we'd set for ourselves until about eight weeks ago - ordinary. Chelsea were hardly setting the game alight either - save for a fine bit of play from Drogba.

The second goal changed the game, and like Harry, I'd rather Atkinson had sent off Cech and awarded the penalty, but then again - did it deny a goalscoring opportunity when Bale slotted it in anyway? I dunno.

I've been feeling almost a bit physically sick today. A bit incapacitated by it all. I think the last time I felt this bad was after Everton dingdonged up 4-1 up at Elland Road.

I could analyse and analyse and analyse, and it still won't make me feel any better. What I need now - much like two years ago after the Pompey debacle - is a game where we show what we're really made of. I fear I won't get that in the same way as I did then.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think people are being too harsh on the team and on Harry.

We were the better team in the first half. Putting out a 4-5-1/4-3-3 team, make sure we weren't over-run in midfield (or being negative if you prefer) was the right thing to do. We just needed a bit of luck, or rather Chelsea not being lucky. Or, we need a better striker. Drogba is still a very good striker, he gave them the lead from nothing when we deserved being ahead already. Very little Harry, or even most of the players could do about that.

The goal helped them grow in confidence, that's normal. Then of course the ref needs to take the blame for 2-0. We reacted quite well I though, and got it back to 2-1, should have been 1-1 and despite being unlucky we should have been in a good position. Instead we were still chasing and struggling. Harry went 4-4-2, I wasn't super happy about it as I thought VdV had done well, but we had to go for it. We needed Ade, Defoe have never played well as a lone striker, Lennon and Bale gave us width and VdV in central midfield would have been suicidal. So he took of VdV to go for it. I can understand that.

Then the ****s scored 3-1 and we collapsed a bit at the end. Even at 3-1 though we just needed a goal to make it interesting. These things happen to just about every team in the world.

Very disappointing - like you Jurgen I stayed away from the forum last night - was fuming walking home from the pub. Ref is a ****. Chelsea are ****s, I hope Barca absolutely crush them. Chelsea fans are a disgrace, delighted I'm not a Chelsea fan. Despite all that though I don't think the team deserves all the vitriol being aimed at them on here after the game and still.

I just don't think we created enough. Cech barely had a save to make in the entire game. To be fair, Chelsea had a host of chances to make it even more embarassing, the one where Torres was standing on his own in the 6 yard box! The one where Mata miscontrolled the ball in the first half! I actually thought Redknapp was actually changing the mentality of the club considering our run of form in up until January, but we seem to have reverted back to same old Spurs.

Yes there's no doubt, we were desperately unlucky with the VDV cross that hit the post and of course the Mata "goal". The 2nd "goal" changed the game. Even when we brought it back to 2-1, We were still at a huge disadvantage as we needed to go for it, which lead to of us course being open at the back. The ref also bottled it by not sending off Cech! But I can't blame the loss on the officials alone, we still conceded 4 perfectly good goals.

P.s. Big mistake playing Cudicini. He was at fault for Lampard's goal. He was standing on the same side of the goal where the ball went in, and he still couldn't save it!

 

[Raziel]

So, some points I agree with, but other I don't

- We don't "at best/worst" have the 4th best squad in the league, we have a squad that can compete, yes, but better than Cheat$ki = no, they had fudging Torres on the bench, no matter how bad his form, that's Torres, much like City has had Tevez and Manure has had Berbativ on bench most of season. The Scum have RVP who really unfortunately is truely WC once fit.

The strange part for me with this run of form, is outside of the Scum game, and the last 20 minutes of Sunday's game, I don't think we have played that badly (I remember the end of Ramos where we looked completely clueless and looked shambolic all game long), it's that 10% that's missing (belief/confidence/form/england distraction, I don't know)

I sometimes forget how miserable Spurs can make me feel ....

 

[braineclipse]

I just don't think we created enough. Cech barely had a save to make in the entire game. To be fair, Chelsea had a host of chances to make it even more embarassing, the one where Torres was standing on his own in the 6 yard box! The one where Mata miscontrolled the ball in the first half! I actually thought Redknapp was actually changing the mentality of the club considering our run of form in up until January, but we seem to have reverted back to same old Spurs.

Yes there's no doubt, we were desperately unlucky with the VDV cross that hit the post and of course the Mata "goal". The 2nd "goal" changed the game. Even when we brought it back to 2-1, We were still at a huge disadvantage as we needed to go for it, which lead to of us course being open at the back. The ref also bottled it by not sending off Cech! But I can't blame the loss on the officials alone, we still conceded 4 perfectly good goals.

P.s. Big mistake playing Cudicini. He was at fault for Lampard's goal. He was standing on the same side of the goal where the ball went in, and he still couldn't save it!

In addition to the VdV cross you had the VdV header saved on the line.

For me, goals change games and once a team takes the lead they will have an easier time scoring another. So once we went behind I'm not surprised Chelsea had the upper hand, especially after 2-0. Most teams need a lucky break to come back from two goals behind, especially when up against good opponents.

I agree about your P.S. I have a no idea what that was about, argued for playing Friedel in the match thread, but thought it would be just a theoretical argument as I didn't see how Harry could start Cudicini in this game.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I really don't see how we have gone from 3rd and cruising into a CL place to getting outclassed at home by Norwich who we destroyed in December and getting gubbed 5-1 to an ageing Chelsea side.

I'm not convinced that our poor run of form is all down to the England situation, but I definitely think it has had SOME effect on the club.

 

[funster]

So, some points I agree with, but other I don't

- We don't "at best/worst" have the 4th best squad in the league, we have a squad that can compete, yes, but better than Cheat$ki = no, they had fudging Torres on the bench, no matter how bad his form, that's Torres, much like City has had Tevez and Manure has had Berbativ on bench most of season. The Scum have RVP who really unfortunately is truely WC once fit.

The strange part for me with this run of form, is outside of the Scum game, and the last 20 minutes of Sunday's game, I don't think we have played that badly (I remember the end of Ramos where we looked completely clueless and looked shambolic all game long), it's that 10% that's missing (belief/confidence/form/england distraction, I don't know)

I sometimes forget how miserable Spurs can make me feel ....

You forgot the Norwich game, which was pretty brick really. Other than that, yeah, it isn't that we've played that badly. Thing is, once you're stuck in a brick run of form, it kind of becomes automatic - and vice versa. If you're on a hot streak, it just seems that much easier to win. That's something we seem to have forgotten how to do.

 

[Wriggly]

We capitulated, were Spurs we always do it, even with different players, managers and situations we always cave in when the going gets tough.

 

[braineclipse]

I really don't see how we have gone from 3rd and cruising into a CL place to getting outclassed at home by Norwich who we destroyed in December and getting gubbed 5-1 to an ageing Chelsea side.

I'm not convinced that our poor run of form is all down to the England situation, but I definitely think it has had SOME effect on the club.

I agree, although we weren't outclassed by Norwich. A combination of a lot of things adding up to a poor run right now.

 

[Libero]

I really don't see how we have gone from 3rd and cruising into a CL place to getting outclassed at home by Norwich who we destroyed in December and getting gubbed 5-1 to an ageing Chelsea side.

I'm not convinced that our poor run of form is all down to the England situation, but I definitely think it has had SOME effect on the club.

I think, like with most things that occur like this, its a combination of factors. I would have to say the overriding one would be the WAY we got beat at Arsenal, not because we got beaten.
Nobody saw that coming and I think that has alot to do with the confidence issues around the team yet it shouldn't when you think we played very well at Chelsea and also beat a good Swansea side, got a point at Sunderland which isn't easy.

Throw into the mix the shenanigans at the starts of the season, the England job, the Tax case, some of the injuries we have had and there you pretty much have it. When you look at all those factors together it doesn't seem surprising that we have had a bit of a slump yet we all find it amazing that we have, at least to this level.

Yesterday really was a disgrace to my mind. No team should ever get beaten in the Semi Final of a major cup competition 5-1, its just a nonsense. Semi Finals are supposed to be close run things and even if it isn't going for you, you should never be beaten 5-1. Some of the thumpings we have had this season are unacceptable and shouldn't happen ever again but I won't hold my breath.

 

[tynesidespur]

3 things caused us to lose yesterday.

1 - Selecting Cudicini who was responsible for goals 1 and 4. Goal 1 - never get beaten at your near post, Goal 4 - its 35 yards ffs, I don't care if it swerved its on the side of the wall you're covering.
2 - Refereeing - this has been done to death on other threads but nevertheless had a major impact on the game and the score.
3 - Bringing on Defoe. The switch caused us to lose midfield and consequently collapse.

Two shocking managerial decisions and one shocker from the ref.

 

[suffolkspur]

I really don't see how we have gone from 3rd and cruising into a CL place to getting outclassed at home by Norwich who we destroyed in December and getting gubbed 5-1 to an ageing Chelsea side.

I'm not convinced that our poor run of form is all down to the England situation, but I definitely think it has had SOME effect on the club.

See this is why i am convinced that all is not well behind the scenes and something has rocked the mentality of the squad as a whole. Ive already said that i expected us to drop points in this period but certainly not to the extent we have. I really dont see what other people have seen when they say we havent been playing that badly in this run. We've played well in small patches within games but not well consistently start to finish really in any game during this run. Even the Sunderland game where we dominated possession i believe we looked one paced, 1 dimensional and lacking in any plan/drive to really break them down hence the 1 shot of target.

I can accept during a season you will have ups and downs. But the drop in the general performances of the players has been startling. Its not to me that we are not winning many games although this is a concern, it is the manner in which we are playing/losing games that is a really hard pill to swallow.

Yesterday was a perfect example of what i am talking about. Yes a bad decision was made but to capitulate like we did AFTER we got back to 2-1 was pathetic. People can talk tactics all they want and yes i believe the decision to change to 442 that early was a mistake by Harry, but even playing 442 against their formation i would expect more from the players. Its sad to see. We are capable of so much more.

I also just on a side note wish our players would shut up before big games. This week we had Bale declaring we would beat Chelsea because we are better than them only for the team to be embarrased. The same happened with 2-3 players running their mouth before the Arsenal game. I tell you what lads, how about you shut up and play the game first and gloat after when you dont bottle it :-"

 

[Libero]

3 things caused us to lose yesterday.

1 - Selecting Cudicini who was responsible for goals 1 and 4. Goal 1 - never get beaten at your near post, Goal 4 - its 35 yards ffs, I don't care if it swerved its on the side of the wall you're covering.
2 - Refereeing - this has been done to death on other threads but nevertheless had a major impact on the game and the score.
3 - Bringing on Defoe. The switch caused us to lose midfield and consequently collapse.

Two shocking managerial decisions and one shocker from the ref.

Very Harsh mate. Friedel wouldn't have saved the first goal. No one would have saved the first goal. In a perfect world you don't get beaten on your near post but it is never as simple as that. It was an absolutely world class finish from a superb player, he teed it up himself, mugged Gallas off before producing a finish like that. Sorry, sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say it was just a fantastic strike.

I would ask more questions of why one straight ball to Drogba saw our 2 centre halves engaged against Drogba and I think Kalou - 2 v 2

The 4th goal, what can you do? If it takes a deflection then its down to luck. Friedel might have saved it but we will never know. The goal I would say he could have done alot better on was Ramires. He seemed to go down very early and make up Ramires' mind for him which with the angle he was at, was the easiest place to ask him to hook the ball with the outside of his foot.

 

[tynesidespur]

Very Harsh mate. Friedel wouldn't have saved the first goal. No one would have saved the first goal. In a perfect world you don't get beaten on your near post but it is never as simple as that. It was an absolutely world class finish from a superb player, he teed it up himself, mugged Gallas off before producing a finish like that. Sorry, sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say it was just a fantastic strike.

I would ask more questions of why one straight ball to Drogba saw our 2 centre halves engaged against Drogba and I think Kalou - 2 v 2

The 4th goal, what can you do? If it takes a deflection then its down to luck. Friedel might have saved it but we will never know. The goal I would say he could have done alot better on was Ramires. He seemed to go down very early and make up Ramires' mind for him which with the angle he was at, was the easiest place to ask him to hook the ball with the outside of his foot.

You're right about goal 3 - I thought that at the time when I saw the replay. So...that's 3 goals he's responsible for Goal 3 I would place the root cause with King running out of the back four as has been shown elsewhere - but yes, he did go down very early.

Maybe I am being a little harsh for the first goal but I've heard a lot of criticism for Gallas. Honestly what else could he have done? He got tight in behind him, forced him to turn on to his weaker foot and he is close to blocking the shot. In fact he only leaves the area that Drogba shoots for. Cudicini could've been a yard further off his line and I think he would save it. As you say possibly harsh but I do think Friedel may have stopped it. He certainly would've stopped goal no 4 - look at his save from Sigurdsson a few weeks back for evidence.

 

[Libero]

You're right about goal 3 - I thought that at the time when I saw the replay. So...that's 3 goals he's responsible for Goal 3 I would place the root cause with King running out of the back four as has been shown elsewhere - but yes, he did go down very early.

Maybe I am being a little harsh for the first goal but I've heard a lot of criticism for Gallas. Honestly what else could he have done? He got tight in behind him, forced him to turn on to his weaker foot and he is close to blocking the shot. In fact he only leaves the area that Drogba shoots for. Cudicini could've been a yard further off his line and I think he would save it. As you say possibly harsh but I do think Friedel may have stopped it. He certainly would've stopped goal no 4 - look at his save from Sigurdsson a few weeks back for evidence.

For the first goal mate, Neither Gallas or Cudicini could do anymore. I accepted it as soon as it happened. It really was just a superb goal and Im pleased that I can sit here and say that because if the boot were on the other foot then I don't think any Chelsea fans would take the same stance. I know you say he was played onto his weaker foot but wel, thats what his weaker foot can do........considerably more than all our forwards best and strongest feet!

Friedel might have got number 4, can't be too sure but it was immaterial then. We were 3-1 down and tbh didn't look like we were getting back into it but the 3rd goal he could definitely have done much better with.

 

[Seedy Ron]

1 - Selecting Cudicini who was responsible for goals 1 and 4. Goal 1 - never get beaten at your near post, Goal 4 - its 35 yards ffs, I don't care if it swerved its on the side of the wall you're covering.
2 - Refereeing - this has been done to death on other threads but nevertheless had a major impact on the game and the score.
3 - Bringing on Defoe. The switch caused us to lose midfield and consequently collapse.

Agree with those 3, although I wouldn't blame Carlo for the first goal, was just a very good finish.

 

[Jurgen the German]

See this is why i am convinced that all is not well behind the scenes and something has rocked the mentality of the squad as a whole. Ive already said that i expected us to drop points in this period but certainly not to the extent we have. I really dont see what other people have seen when they say we havent been playing that badly in this run. We've played well in small patches within games but not well consistently start to finish really in any game during this run. Even the Sunderland game where we dominated possession i believe we looked one paced, 1 dimensional and lacking in any plan/drive to really break them down hence the 1 shot of target.

I can accept during a season you will have ups and downs. But the drop in the general performances of the players has been startling. Its not to me that we are not winning many games although this is a concern, it is the manner in which we are playing/losing games that is a really hard pill to swallow.

Yesterday was a perfect example of what i am talking about. Yes a bad decision was made but to capitulate like we did AFTER we got back to 2-1 was pathetic. People can talk tactics all they want and yes i believe the decision to change to 442 that early was a mistake by Harry, but even playing 442 against their formation i would expect more from the players. Its sad to see. We are capable of so much more.

I also just on a side note wish our players would shut up before big games. This week we had Bale declaring we would beat Chelsea because we are better than them only for the team to be embarrased. The same happened with 2-3 players running their mouth before the Arsenal game. I tell you what lads, how about you shut up and play the game first and gloat after when you dont bottle it :-"

Couldn't agree more.