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Things we have been getting away with...

the dza

Christian Ziege
Perhaps a little "knee-jerk" and no doubt, a thread that wouldn't exist if we hadn't just lost to West Ham at home 0-3...but still, not a thread entirely without merit.

These are a few things I feel the team has been getting away with lately:

1. No Sandro starting league games, especially London derbies. He is one of the only players we have who exudes intensity, who can get the crowd going with a thumping tackle and just increase the anger and passion levels of a game. This is very important to us imo, because we need to play with a faster tempo in our home games. Especially for derby games, players like Sandro can raise the level of their team mates. I think that Sandro and Paulinho should be allowed to build a partnership in our midfield.

2. Two right-footed players on the left flank. Maybe it works with players like Lahm and Ribbery, but Naughton isn't really on that level (and neither's Sig, let's face it). They are decent players in their own right, but we must have width down both flanks.. If Naughton is the go-to man as cover for Rose, then we need a left-footer infront of him for balance. I'd use Townsend.

3. Might be a controversial point, but I think we have been getting away with Dawson + Vertonghen in partnership. I don't see how we can play a really successful pressing game with two slow players at centre-half. When we went behind today (and panicked a bit), we pushed on a bit higher and our lack of recovery speed through the centre of defence was exposed badly. I think Dawson and Vertonghen are decent defenders individually, but it doesn't seem the right blend as a partnership. Surely, one of the pair needs to be (at the very least) 'not slow'.

4. My last point (for now). We have been getting away with no physical presence/athleticism upfront. Even the goons have got Giroud. All the top sides have some sort of size/strength and/or speed up top. Maybe not Barca, but they have that little Argentinian lad who's fairly handy and he's also no slouch. Soldado isn't particularly quick or strong, neither us Defoe. If the service isn't good for these players, then the opposing centre halves end up having a pretty easy afternoon. Sometimes, it'd be nice if we could work it wide and bang it into the box, knowing that the player in there can make something of it.
 
Not sure this is 5 or an extension of 2, but not swapping the wide men over. Last season Bale and Lennon swapped flanks regularly, it gives the full backs something different to deal with. I'd have liked to see Townsend on the left at some point and test their right back who had obviously been drilled all week to show the play the outside. Same with Siggy on the right.
 
Would agree with that Viper, we have been quite rigid at times with our tactics. Surely it's worth a 5-10 minute gamble, in the first half, to let Townsend have a run at the other fullback and see if we get any joy. We weren't exactly tearing them apart, but we were at least in control of the game at that point. Would be a better time to do it, rather than wait for things to go wrong and then abandon all the original ideas.

Maybe 6. would be that we (or rather, AVB) has gotten away with being re-active as opposed to being pro-active.
 
1. Meh, Dembele and Paulinho have looked good in several games.

2. Agreed. It's not good.

3. Agreed up to a point, although I still think our first choice cb pairing should be Vertonghen and Kaboul. Still very early days for Chiriches, although he might make a claim for a starting spot.

4. Yeah, it's a potential problem. Chadli offers some of that physicality and was preferred up to his injury, might be time for him to return to the line-up after the international break. Ade is obviously a potential option.
 
Yeah, we've gotten away with the Daws/Verts partnership to the tune of two goals conceded in six PL games prior to today.

Even after today's drubbing only two other clubs have conceded fewer - so I'll take that thank you very much.
 
Yeah, we've gotten away with the Daws/Verts partnership to the tune of two goals conceded in six PL games prior to today.

Even after today's drubbing only two other clubs have conceded fewer - so I'll take that thank you very much.

Well, yes, that would be the definition of "getting away with it", in this instance! :p

Do you not think it's a bit of an unbalanced partnership? For me, there has to be 1 player in the centre-half partnership who can cover the ground at least a little bit. Both Daws and Verts are slow on the turn and don't have any pace.
 
Well, yes, that would be the definition of "getting away with it", in this instance! :p

Do you not think it's a bit of an unbalanced partnership? For me, there has to be 1 player in the centre-half partnership who can cover the ground at least a little bit. Both Daws and Verts are slow on the turn and don't have any pace.

I get where you're coming from but with Kaboul injured, not sure we have any realistic options atm. Given AVB isn't keen on the inexperienced Fryers at RB ahead of Naughton he's unlikely to try him at CB in Prem games any time soon. Would expect Chiriches to start challenging Kaboul/Daws once he's got a few games in the cups under his belt but going by his woeful display first half against Anzhi that still looks some way off.
 
I get where you're coming from but with Kaboul injured, not sure we have any realistic options atm. Given AVB isn't keen on the inexperienced Fryers at RB ahead of Naughton he's unlikely to try him at CB in Prem games any time soon. Would expect Chiriches to start challenging Kaboul/Daws once he's got a few games in the cups under his belt but going by his woeful display first half against Anzhi that still looks some way off.

That's true, Kaboul's fitness doesn't leave AVB with much option. Chiriches is probably a bit raw at the moment, as you say he will need to get some cup games under his belt. One for the future (we hope).

It's not that Vert and Daws haven't done well, they have done very well at times and our overall defensive record has been impressive this season. But we all just know that there is an obvious weakness there with the lack of pace/mobility, and there are going to be games where we get undone by simple football that feeds players with pace. I'd like to see us with a centre-back partnership that can at least limit that somewhat. For now, we'll have to hope that Dawson and Vertonghen can cope, and that the offside trap does the job for the most part.
 
Our lack of pace at centre-back could be solved by dropping Sandro in there, you know. Either as a replacement for one of the two or as a third defender in a three-man back-line. Just a thought.
 
Agree with all of your points. Sandro should be first name on the team sheet against Villa (and hopefully for the rest of the season for PL games) - his enthusiasm and never-say-die attitude is absolutely vital for our team spirit. Love the man. Ideally I'd love to see Kaboul + Vertonghen together in the central defense, although Dawson has the all important experience, he's too slow and does some odd choices a bit too often. Love the man all the same, though, and very happy he signed a new contract. Soldado is perhaps a bit too weak to have as a lone striker, but I reckon he'll be good in time. He's always sniffing up the right rebounds, he often gets into good positions, just needs that little bit of luck and service to get there properly. It'll come!
 
1. So badly YES, someone was telling me that its Sandro/Capoue with Dembele/Paulinho and Eriksen/Holtby. Starting to believe in this theory a lot more. I love Paulinho, i think he's been the most impressive signing (based on consistency), but tactically it makes you wonder what we're missing without a hard ball winner.

2. Really think we should get Lamela running at players, its so early for him, once he can speak English and is settled (may take a whole season tbh), he could solve that issue. But AVB likes the players cutting in and its probably quite good for our movement and effectiveness when in front of goal (Sigurdsson goals for ex). However I also think that Lennon coming back will be a great boost to give us real natural width (cue the complaints about his **** delivery)

3. Agree with another point that Kaboul Vertonghen should be our first choice, Dawson is amazing for this club, and in home games you think we can play him as we'll have the ball more.

4. IF Ade's head is right, then we have a huge chance to really build around him. His movement, athleticism strength could eventually lead to making more out of players like Lamela who like to drift into those central areas (hence proving AVB's theory of inverted wingers). I may be alone in this, but if all of our strikers have their heads right and are on form, i'd pick Ade. Hes quality and gets a lot of stick on here unjustifiably so.
 
We've been average for a long time now, but getting the results. We've been getting the results down to some good fortune but usually individual brilliance of a player.

I think the problem we have is that AVB still doesn't have the right players to play the system he wants to play. He needs more time. But with the players we do have I still think we're favourites for a top four place this season and there is no need to panic.
 
In terms of playing the high line without quick centre-backs, we have been getting away with that because we have been adept hitherto at scrambling possession back quickly high up the park on the (frequent) occasions we have squandered it cheaply with inaccurate passing. That's the reason we have been able to keep creating all these chances to shoot as well, albeit that we have scarcely converted any of them, but it hardly happened at all yesterday; West Ham seemed to be able to keep us spread out in the middle of the park, nullifying our ability to regain possession quickly in their half, and hence choking off the bulk of our attacking "threat" as well.
 
We've been average for a long time now, but getting the results. We've been getting the results down to some good fortune but usually individual brilliance of a player.

I think the problem we have is that AVB still doesn't have the right players to play the system he wants to play. He needs more time. But with the players we do have I still think we're favourites for a top four place this season and there is no need to panic.

I have to disagree with this, I think we've looked excellent this season, bar the game against Goons and the second half against Chelski (and of course yesterday) - we just haven't put away the host of chances we've had.
 
I have to disagree with this, I think we've looked excellent this season, bar the game against Goons and the second half against Chelski (and of course yesterday) - we just haven't put away the host of chances we've had.

I personally feel that in the Premiership we have been poor and the only real tests we have had we failed. But there is a long way to go.
 
In terms of playing the high line without quick centre-backs, we have been getting away with that because we have been adept hitherto at scrambling possession back quickly high up the park on the (frequent) occasions we have squandered it cheaply with inaccurate passing. That's the reason we have been able to keep creating all these chances to shoot as well, albeit that we have scarcely converted any of them, but it hardly happened at all yesterday; West Ham seemed to be able to keep us spread out in the middle of the park, nullifying our ability to regain possession quickly in their half, and hence choking off the bulk of our attacking "threat" as well.

I think that's a good observation. Would it perhaps be even more important to play Sandro then? Or, at least, bring him on in games where our pressing isn't up to standard?
 
^^
I think so, yes. AVB muttered something in his rather unconvincing post-match interview about not being able to make his subs when he'd wanted to, citing the fact the Spammers scored the second goal almost straight away as an explanation, but I think it was clear long before they scored their first that we hadn't been pressing effectively enough, and I think Sandro (and Holtby) should have been on a lot earlier, myself.
 
I tell you what, I am absolutely petrified that AVB doesn't in fact rate Sandro. He was known for shutting out certain players at Chelsea, and he's said he's learned from his mistakes there, but it doesn't look good for our best central midfielder at the moment. If he stays on the bench till January then I can see him wanting out, and I can see AVB letting him. What a disaster that would be for the club.
 
On sandro I don't think AVB doesn't rate him, more that after beong out for so long he doesn't want to rush him back into EPL action (or at least I hope it is that), especially after 90 mins vs Anji.

I fully expect Sandro to start our next game in the league. Its a no brainer he's our best DM and has to play to allow our more attack minded players to get forward more. Also the sooner Capoue gets fit the better as he can take some pressure off Sandro as well.

AVB does seem to like Moussa but of all our cms he seems to be caught between not really being a dm or am just somewhere in the middle- a willing runner with a decent shot that he hardly uses. Decent squad player but not what you need to break a side that comes to park the bus like the spammers did.
 
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