The THFC Facts of Life

[Lemonade Money]

How do you gauge where our club should be, and what we should expect?

By turnover?

6th in PL, 11th in Europe.
Using this scale we should be qualifying for EL, and reaching the QF of domestic cups.
Our new stadium should put us 3rd or 4th in the list, so in the future, using this scale we should be qualifying for CL, and reaching the SF of domestic cups.

By history?

5th.
Using this scale we should be qualifying for EL, and reaching the QF of domestic cups.

By clubs of similar stature?
Excluding money doped clubs, this would be Everton and Aston Villa; mid-table or Championship.

By size of stadium?

All these clubs had bigger grounds than us.
Our new stadium will put us 3rd in the list*, so in the future, using this scale we should be qualifying for CL, and reaching the SF of domestic cups.
*not sure if Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project have plans to expand?

Spurs under Daniel Levy:



In the last 9 seasons (including this season), we have finished the league in an average PL position of 4th, FAC QF, LC 5th round.

In the last 3 seasons (including this season), we have finished the league in an average PL position of 3rd, FAC SF, LC 4th round.

 

[Lemonade Money]

 

[Seedy Ron]

Solid effort Lemonade, although I can hear the sighs from certain quarters from here...

 

[harr1984]

Who exactly is 'bitching' about Tottenham? Posters have been discussing how we can progress, is that not allowed without it being portrayed so negatively?

Are people calling for Pochs' head? We're only discussing the same things Poch and Levy will be discussing. The questions are how can we take that final hurdle, everyone recognises where we are and what our restraints are.

Or should we only be allowed to post when things are great and we've just thrashed Stoke at home.....

 

[spurs' magna carter]

There is always going to be 'bitching'. If there wasn't this country would still be an absolute monarchy (I believe in the monarchy but it needs ro be constitutional as has been since 1689) and we'd all be working the land with the moderators being the Sheriff's

I do see us as doing well, and definitely punching above our weight. We simply cannot compete off the pitch with our rivals, in every sense we are bottom of that top six list. Historically we're 5th, but in terms of money etc. we are bottom. So I do agree with the argument that we are doing well and we should be enjoying it. Hell, 20 years ago to the day, (April 1998) we were a place above the relegation zone!

But I also agree wit the argument that we need to do better when push comes to shove. This is not because of any embittering defeats (namely FA Cup semi-finals) or envy of any rival, it simply comes from the potential this lot have and the ambition they evidently show both invidually and collectively.

If the club threw the argument of 'we are punching above our weight' or 'stop bitching' at this current crop, you will see stern faces that will later tell their agents "if anyone shows interest this summer, let me know". We all saw Alli after Saturday's game, how gutted he was and to be honest he was right. If you want to be the best, you have to be the best. It's all good talking about 'the ambition of the club' or 'we want to win trophies' but one way or another you have to do it.

The more this continues, the more likely it is that the likes of (dare I say it) Harry Kane will just turn around and say 'f@ck this, I'm off'. Regardless as to who comes and goes, yes the club and fans are always there, but so is the desire to be successful.

 

[SpurMeUp]

What if you enjoyed supporting a midtable club with genuine supporters? What can you offer?

 

[parklane1]

There is always going to be 'bitching'. If there wasn't this country would still be an absolute monarchy (I believe in the monarchy but it needs ro be constitutional as has been since 1689) and we'd all be working the land with the moderators being the Sheriff's

I do see us as doing well, and definitely punching above our weight. We simply cannot compete off the pitch with our rivals, in every sense we are bottom of that top six list. Historically we're 5th, but in terms of money etc. we are bottom. So I do agree with the argument that we are doing well and we should be enjoying it. Hell, 20 years ago to the day, (April 1998) we were a place above the relegation zone!

But I also agree wit the argument that we need to do better when push comes to shove. This is not because of any embittering defeats (namely FA Cup semi-finals) or envy of any rival, it simply comes from the potential this lot have and the ambition they evidently show both invidually and collectively.

If the club threw the argument of 'we are punching above our weight' or 'stop bitching' at this current crop, you will see stern faces that will later tell their agents "if anyone shows interest this summer, let me know". We all saw Alli after Saturday's game, how gutted he was and to be honest he was right. If you want to be the best, you have to be the best. It's all good talking about 'the ambition of the club' or 'we want to win trophies' but one way or another you have to do it.

The more this continues, the more likely it is that the likes of (dare I say it) Harry Kane will just turn around and say 'f@ck this, I'm off'. Regardless as to who comes and goes, yes the club and fans are always there, but so is the desire to be successful.

I would agree with all of that if it was not for your first paragraph about the monarchy, they are nothing but bloodsuckers on the surface of our country.

Apart from that it was a great post.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

I would agree with all of that if it was not for your first paragraph about the monarchy, they are nothing but bloodsuckers on the surface of our country.

Apart from that it was a great post.

Cheers Parklane.

Just try to look at both sides of the argument as impartial as I can.

 

[Bullet]

Some of my mates support Forest, Reading, Villa, Ipswich ... we ain't got it so bad

We say we are "bottom" of the top six in terms of wages but that is like a Sheikh saying he is the sixth poorest Prince in Qatar

 

[SpurMeUp]

Good thread.

It shows how much of a step up there is in commercial revenue. Not just shirt and shop sales but sponsorship of the elite clubs gives them upto £200m more each season than us.

What's amazing is that with close to 0 net spend we've done so well under Poch and Levy. Would be right that we win things under them. They have come this far. Figuring out the next step together will be the final piece of the jigsaw.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Atletico won the league a couple of years ago. Leicester won the league a couple of years ago. Dortmund won the league, and some cups, a few years ago (hell, they won one under Tuchel as well). Juve wins everything in Italy, all the time, always.

In other words, everyone around our position wins things - their domestic contexts are different, but then, we are much wealthier than almost everyone that competes in the Europa League, and the last time we won that was in 1984. Sevilla, by contrast...



...and they're not even *on* this list.

We have a problem in that we perform somewhat above par, all the time, without ever actually possessing the mental fortitude to go the final mile and win something.

The former deserves praise. The latter is just a depressing fact of life at Tottenham Hotspur - one I don't think even Poch can change.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Some of my mates support Forest, Reading, Villa, Ipswich ... we ain't got it so bad

We say we are "bottom" of the top six in terms of wages but that is like a Sheikh saying he is the sixth poorest Prince in Qatar

Especially if they have the misfortune to live in any of those places.

 

[90291Spur]

It's the hope again, this season, that reared its hideous head.

 

[awesome dawson]

Based on those tables we should be finishing outside the top four. If we beat Watford and keep our heads for the run in we will achieve top four, going into the new stadium. I'm happy enough with that.

 

[billyiddo]

View attachment 4426

Atletico won the league a couple of years ago. Leicester won the league a couple of years ago. Dortmund won the league, and some cups, a few years ago (hell, they won one under Tuchel as well). Juve wins everything in Italy, all the time, always.

In other words, everyone around our position wins things - their domestic contexts are different, but then, we are much wealthier than almost everyone that competes in the Europa League, and the last time we won that was in 1984. Sevilla, by contrast...

View attachment 4427

...and they're not even *on* this list.

We have a problem in that we perform somewhat above par, all the time, without ever actually possessing the mental fortitude to go the final mile and win something.

The former deserves praise. The latter is just a depressing fact of life at Tottenham Hotspur - one I don't think even Poch can change.

Leicester was a once in a life time event and the others don't have 5 clubs (a quarter of the league) spending much more than them - put us in a league where we are competing with only one or two richer clubs and see how we get on then.

We're in a unique position atm - let's see how it pans out once the gap closes

Edit : i do think we should have done better in the EL though tbf

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

How do you gauge where our club should be, and what we should expect?

By turnover?

By history?

By clubs of similar stature?

By size of stadium?

Spurs under Daniel Levy:

Really interesting read, thanks for pulling together.

Unfortunately, the thing you can't measure on here that counts for a large proportion of where I gauge our club should be, is the level and quality of the squad we have.

Where do the likes of Kane, Toby, Eriksen, Lloris...even Poch, sit amongst the best players in the world. Are they under or over achieving? Or perhaps are spot on for the level they're at.
That might help us measure whether Tottenham, as a club, are where it should be.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Really interesting read, thanks for pulling together.

Unfortunately, the thing you can't measure on here that counts for a large proportion of where I gauge our club should be, is the level and quality of the squad we have.

Where do the likes of Kane, Toby, Eriksen, Lloris...even Poch, sit amongst the best players in the world. Are they under or over achieving? Or perhaps are spot on for the level they're at.
That might help us measure whether Tottenham, as a club, are where it should be.

Think you are confusing the two. What I set out to show is where we probably should be, not where we are. What you are talking about is where we actually are, and yes of course we are overachieving.
Once the new stadium is up and running, where we are at at the moment will be par, and anything less will be underachieving. Overachieving in that scenario will mean actually winning stuff.

 

[Bullet]

Especially if they have the misfortune to live in any of those places.

They don't.


If Spurs still pay the 6th highest wages in the PL, we are punching above our weight in the league. That takes its toll elsewhere, e.g. teams tend to do better in either the league or the cups, unless they have truly massive budgets

 

[Lemonade Money]

Winning mentality within our squad:

Mauricio Pochettino
Newell's Old Boys

• Argentine Primera División: 1990–91, Clausura 1992

Espanyol

• Copa del Rey: 1999–2000, 2005–06

Hugo Lloris
Lyon

• Coupe de France: 2011–12
• Trophée des champions: 2012

Toby Alderweireld
Ajax

• Eredivisie: 2010–11, 2011–12, 2012–13
• KNVB Cup: 2009–10
• Johan Cruyff Shield: 2013

Atlético Madrid

• La Liga: 2013–14

Jan Vertonghen
Ajax

• Eredivisie: 2010–11, 2011–12
• KNVB Cup: 2006–07, 2009–10

Davinson Sánchez
Atlético Nacional

• Copa Libertadores: 2016
• Primera A: 2013 Apertura, 2013 Finalización, 2014 Apertura, 2015 Finalización
• Copa Colombia: 2012, 2013
• Superliga Colombiana: 2016

Victor Wanyama
Celtic

• Scottish Premier League: 2011–12, 2012–13
• Scottish Cup: 2013

Fernando Llorente
Juventus

• Serie A: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
• Coppa Italia: 2014–15
• Supercoppa Italiana: 2013, 2015

Sevilla

• UEFA Europa League: 2015–16

Spain

• FIFA World Cup: 2010
• UEFA European Championship: 2012

Mousa Dembélé
AZ

• Eredivisie: 2008–09
• Johan Cruijff Shield: 2009

Christian Eriksen
Ajax

• Eredivisie: 2010–11, 2011–12, 2012–13, 2013–14
• KNVB Cup: 2009–10
• Johan Cruijff Shield: 2013

Serge Aurier
Paris Saint-Germain

• Ligue 1: 2014–15, 2015–16
• Coupe de la Ligue: 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
• Coupe de France: 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
• Trophée des Champions: 2014, 2015, 2016

Ivory Coast

• Africa Cup of Nations: 2015

Lucas Moura
São Paulo

• Copa Sudamericana: 2012

Paris Saint-Germain

• Ligue 1: 2012–13, 2013–14, 2014—15, 2015–16
• Coupe de France: 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
• Coupe de la Ligue: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
• Trophée des Champions: 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017

 

[SpurMeUp]

Tottenham have scored in each of their last 23 Premier League games, their longest scoring run in the top-flight since April 1987 (26 games).

Understandably the fans - and the players and Poch - are a little deflated after we limped out the cups. Our defense and midfield needs sorting so we concede fewer goals. But don't forget we had the best defense in the land under Poch, so if anyone can restore that vital stat he can. We always create chances to score now and this thread is needed because many forget how much better we are now.