The striker debate

[braineclipse]

This debate is going on in several threads and keeps popping up again, thought maybe we could gather it in one place. I also wanted to see a poll to see how many people hold different views.

For me there's a couple of points that I think are important just to get things started.

1. AVB seems happy with our options up front. We've finished two consecutive transfer windows with our current options, he's stated that he's happy with those options several times throughout the season. If he was really unhappy with the number of strikers we have I think we would have signed someone either in the summer or in January.

2. I think Dempsey counts at least as a forward, if not as a striker. AVB has stated as much as well.

3. Compared to several teams I think it makes sense to compare us to we're not really short in numbers up front. Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton and Liverpool all have a similar amount of strikers. For them also there are players who can play as strikers/forwards who can also play other roles. Chelsea really only have 2 strikers.

 

[Baleforce]

Out of the second tier group the scousers have the best strike force I think, nothing in it between the rest of us, Chelsea interest me though as I think their most effective forward is playing for someone else

we are all relying heavily on goals from the midfield and Chelsea have an obvious advantage here

 

[chicken_badge]

I do wonder why we don't push our youth a bit more. Kane should have been involved at least on the bench. Two kids involved with the Europa?

Part of keeping a balance at a club is having enough football to go round. We are exceptionally fortunate with goalkeeper for example, with effectively a choice of Lloris, Friedel, Cudicini and Gomes going into the window . But you need enough football to go round. If everyone is fit I think we would struggle to keep Defoe, Adebayor and one other top striker happy. So I'm not surprised we didn't bring another forward in. If we were pushing for the title then yes, we could get another in because someone like Dzeko would accept ten league starts a season when you are in the best team in the league. That's not being unambitious as I think we can get to that standard, but i think if we brought in say Leandro in January then we might have a problem placating say Adebayor, which affects the squad.

Dempsey IS viewed as a centre forward, yes he's not the best in the world but he is a decent pro and good enough to a job for us, certainly in our current "crisis". But too many Spurs fans are too damn spoilt to realise it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

This debate is going on in several threads and keeps popping up again, thought maybe we could gather it in one place. I also wanted to see a poll to see how many people hold different views.

For me there's a couple of points that I think are important just to get things started.

1. AVB seems happy with our options up front. We've finished two consecutive transfer windows with our current options, he's stated that he's happy with those options several times throughout the season. If he was really unhappy with the number of strikers we have I think we would have signed someone either in the summer or in January. Well I disagree with this, I don't think AVB is the type of guy who would complain to Levy about anything. He may well raise some concerns with Levy, but Levy would probably tell him no and AVB wouldn't fight him. He's much more of a yes man than Harry, not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing btw.

2. I think Dempsey counts at least as a forward, if not as a striker. AVB has stated as much as well. Yes but not an out and out striker. Sig could technically play there too, doesn't mean I'd be happy with him playing up front. I think 3 is the absolute minimum. And please don't mention Harry Kane, he does not compare to our other two and isn't anywhere near good enough.

3. Compared to several teams I think it makes sense to compare us to we're not really short in numbers up front. Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton and Liverpool all have a similar amount of strikers. For them also there are players who can play as strikers/forwards who can also play other roles. Chelsea really only have 2 strikers. I don't know why other teams should affect what WE do in terms of buying or not buying strikers.

And really you didn't even mention the fact that it leaves us incredibly short if one of those strikers gets injured, which predicatably happened today. Not beyond the realm of possibility that Defoe might be out longer than 3 weeks, which could leave us with Adebayor as the only striker going into the North London Derby which could ulitmately end in disaster again with him losing his head.

 

[braineclipse]

1. Well I disagree with this, I don't think AVB is the type of guy who would complain to Levy about anything. He may well raise some concerns with Levy, but Levy would probably tell him no and AVB wouldn't fight him. He's much more of a yes man than Harry, not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing btw.

2. Yes but not an out and out striker. Sig could technically play there too, doesn't mean I'd be happy with him playing up front. I think 3 is the absolute minimum. And please don't mention Harry Kane, he does not compare to our other two and isn't anywhere near good enough.

3. I don't know why other teams should affect what WE do in terms of buying or not buying strikers.

4. And really you didn't even mention the fact that it leaves us incredibly short if one of those strikers gets injured, which predicatably happened today. Not beyond the realm of possibility that Defoe might be out longer than 3 weeks, which could leave us with Adebayor as the only striker going into the North London Derby which could ulitmately end in disaster again with him losing his head.

1. Like I said, two windows in a row. A number of answers to the press. I see no reason to believe that he's unhappy with the number of strikers/forwards at the club apart from speculation about AVB not having the balls to stand up to Levy.

2. I specifically didn't mention Sig as I think Dempsey is a better option than him up front. I wasn't going to mention Harry Kane. I think 3 is a good number if we're going to play a lone striker somewhat frequently, and I think Dempsey is one of those 3. Having one of those 3 as a player that can play multiple positions helps us keep the players happy.

3. It's a basis for comparison as to how many strikers you need in a squad. If other top clubs are doing something similar to what we're doing then what we're doing isn't very likely to be completely wrong.

4. Well, we put Dempsey up front today and Holtby in the hole. I don't think our play suffered at all. And that's with two of those three players out. If our two first choice right wingers, right backs, left backs, defensive midfielders or creative central midfielders were out at the same time we would find ourselves just as short of options, if not shorter.

 

[Jurgen the German]

1. Well he's an idiot in my opinion if he's happy with having 2 strikers. Or it's arrogant to believe we can get 4th without reinforcements considering Everton don't show any signs of slowing down and Arsenal's main striker is starting to come good. Plus they have more goals in their team than we do anyway.

2. But Dempsey really doesn't play well up front. Jol even said that were playing him out of position as he played on the left a lot last season. Obviously we won't play him in Bale's position.

3. If Arsenal had signed Villa, would that have changed your mind as to whether we needed to buy a striker or not?

4. I was at the game and I do think our play suffered. Dempsey made very few intelligent runs that Defoe would make. He only managed to get into position once to get a chance on goal. We have 5 centre backs, but two strikers, seems a bit inbalanced doesn't it?

One more point. Arsenal as team have more players who can score, especially in midfield. Cazorla and Podolski have weighed in with a few, Walcott will always get you 8-15 goals a season, Giroud is starting to come good. We rely on Defoe and Bale to get the majority of our goals, do you not see this as a problem? Lennon doesn't chip in with enough, ditto Parker and Dembele. Sig still hasn't scored a league goal. Do you not believe we could have done with an extra striker considering Adebayor has had a very poor season goals wise and Defoe has a history of goal droughts in the second half of the season?

 

[southstand1882]

Good read

http://footballspeak.com/post/2012/04/19/Clint-Dempsey-starting-up-front-for-Fulham.aspx

 

[braineclipse]

1. Well he's an idiot in my opinion if he's happy with having 2 strikers. Or it's arrogant to believe we can get 4th without reinforcements considering Everton don't show any signs of slowing down and Arsenal's main striker is starting to come good. Plus they have more goals in their team than we do anyway.

2. But Dempsey really doesn't play well up front. Jol even said that were playing him out of position as he played on the left a lot last season. Obviously we won't play him in Bale's position.

3. If Arsenal had signed Villa, would that have changed your mind as to whether we needed to buy a striker or not?

4. I was at the game and I do think our play suffered. Dempsey made very few intelligent runs that Defoe would make. He only managed to get into position once to get a chance on goal. We have 5 centre backs, but two strikers, seems a bit inbalanced doesn't it?

One more point. Arsenal as team have more players who can score, especially in midfield. Cazorla and Podolski have weighed in with a few, Walcott will always get you 8-15 goals a season, Giroud is starting to come good. We rely on Defoe and Bale to get the majority of our goals, do you not see this as a problem? Lennon doesn't chip in with enough, ditto Parker and Dembele. Sig still hasn't scored a league goal. Do you not believe we could have done with an extra striker considering Adebayor has had a very poor season goals wise and Defoe has a history of goal droughts in the second half of the season?

1. He might be an idiot, his opinion is still worth more than the combination of opinions on here at the very least.

2. I would take what AVB says about our players over what any other other manager says about our players, including what Martin Jol says.

3. Not really no. Again, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Are you talking about us signing another striker to widen our squad? Or are you talking about us signing a better striker to improve our starting 11 and perhaps selling one of our existing strikers?

4. I have seen both Defoe and Ade play full games without really getting a good chance to score.

We always play at least 2 centre backs, while we like today quite often play just one striker. One of our centre backs is William Gallas - who is properly injury prone and struggles to play more than a game per week. Also one of our centre backs (Vertonghen) is also a backup left back and another (Kaboul) would if fit perhaps be considered as a backup right back. It seems pretty balanced to me. It also seems that we've needed the amount of centre backs we've had this season and what we've needed the amount of strikers we've had this season. So no, it doesn't seem imbalanced.

You mention Cazorla, Podolski, Walcott and Giroud for Arsenal. You only mention Defoe and Bale for us, but I think that's unfair to Dempsey who has scored a few and of course to Ade and Sig who both scored fairly consistently last season for us and Swansea.

I agree that Sig and Ade haven't reached the kind of form I think it was fair to expect from them this season. I'm sure we "could have done with" another striker, but I would rather see us trying to get players who we know are good enough into form rather than signing a squad player and play them instead and save the money.

 

[Jurgen the German]

No, I wanted us to sign a striker to go along with our current selection of strikers, not sell any. I wanted us to sign someone in this window and then sign another in the summer to replace Adebayor.

To me, the striker is the most important position in any team, you need more than 2 in your squad, that's my view. Maybe the fact that I'm a striker influences this

I only mentioned Defoe and Bale because they are the only 2 who are contributing goals. You're right, Dempsey has chipped in with a few recently. I don't see how you can argue that they don't have more players capable of scoring goals consistently than we do.

 

[raboner]

we should have just bought Leo Baptistao from rayo and been rid of these tiresome striker issues.

 

[braineclipse]

No, I wanted us to sign a striker to go along with our current selection of strikers, not sell any. I wanted us to sign someone in this window and then sign another in the summer to replace Adebayor.

To me, the striker is the most important position in any team, you need more than 2 in your squad, that's my view. Maybe the fact that I'm a striker influences this

I only mentioned Defoe and Bale because they are the only 2 who are contributing goals. You're right, Dempsey has chipped in with a few recently. I don't see how you can argue that they don't have more players capable of scoring goals consistently than we do.

Cheers for clarifying.

I just think that both Ade and Sig have shown that they should chip in with goals over a season. Ade, Defoe, Bale, Dempsey, Sig. I don't think that's much worse in terms of goalscoring ability than what the scum has.

 

[indianspur]

should have signed a striker

Ade off form, Defoe not in form and injured.

 

[SpursLodge]

I think the fact that Defoe got injured and we had to bring on Holtby and rearrange show's we don't have enough striking options. Harry Kanes not ready, Obikas not ready, Ade's away, Defoe's injured/on a bad streak. I watch each game and think, unless Bale smashes one in I can't see us scoring, and he can't do that every week.

 

[indianspur]

I think the fact that Defoe got injured and we had to bring on Holtby and rearrange show's we don't have enough striking options. Harry Kanes not ready, Obikas not ready, Ade's away, Defoe's injured/on a bad streak. I watch each game and think, unless Bale smashes one in I can't see us scoring, and he can't do that every week.

i think he is gonna have to

we look solid, organised, can keep the ball better now, but that killer instinct, the goal threat, is what we are missing. Apart from Bale, and to a much lesser extent Dempsey, i dont see many goals at all. Unless Ade comes back from Africa with his shooting boots on

 

[skyfarer]

Hopefully this will no longer be an issue if Ade can come back with the demons of Togo behind him and manifest that chemistry with Holtby that we're all so hopeful of.

In one sense I actually don't mind that he's been out so long - he was never going to play great with not-so-visionary company like Defoe or Dempsey, and now he's got some match fitness in him and a new partner waiting for him A sense of freshness is so important at this stage, and although Ade's never been the most clinical at least he's just getting started this season!

 

[clevelandspur]

I think we should have went in for someone like Danny Graham at that price, maybe not top class but certainly good enough to be part of the rotation

 

[Rossi22]

We don't have enough strikers and they're not good enough BUT I'd rather we waited and signed the striker that ticks all of the boxes than waste money on one that we know doesn't, or horrendously overpay for one that does.

 

[billyiddo]

As i have said elsewhere i only saw worth in signing a genuine striker a level above what we have, otherwise it'd just bloat our ranks come the summer when we hopefully look at adding some quality again, which has been an on going problem with squad for a number of years now - too many players not of the required qualty eating up space and wages.

Im also of the opinion we shouldn't be giving up on Adebayor just yet, he was a vital cog in our attacking play last season and in the lone forward role there are few better that would be available to us. Writing aplayer off because of half an injury blighted season would be foolish imv - left to these posters id imagine we'd have sold Bale and Ekotto before they ever stepped up their progress and poor Aaron Lennon would have been sold several times over !

 

[indianspur]

if as expected Man Utd sign Lewandowski in the summer, i reckon we should put in a bid for Hernandez.

RVP, Lewandowski, Rooney, Wellbeck, Kagawa......Hernandez i think is vulnerable amongst that lot but is more than good enough for us. Can score with his head, left foot, right foot, great movement, enough pace, the kind of goalscorer/finisher the current AVB team is crying out for.

 

[Edwards]

If he's going spare in the summer then Hernandez would be a great signing. I really don't see why Wellbeck is ahead of him.

I feel we really needed another striker this transfer window, and a better one than our current lot. In particular I was really disappointed when Sturridge went to Liverpool, I'd have loved for him to join us.