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The captain - A leadership problem

diego_maradona

diego_maradona

Steffen Iversen
Staff member
Clearly something we've been lacking all season. Someone who can manage the players on the pitch in the heat of battle.

Dawson, we all love him dearly, but there is always a calamity moment around the corner unfortunately. And he's in good company with Vertonghen, Rose and Walker.

What other options are there?

Sandro? Fans favourite. Clearly cares about the club

Vertonghen? Would have been an obvious front runner to be captain to me. Perhaps still is, but just seems despondent right now. Even Ledley wasn't the most vocal but we always saw him clapping and encouraging the others.

Adebayor? The most erratic player in our squad. Currently is the leader out there. Perhaps that's the problem.

Lloris? French captain. I always thought that was weird. Doesn't strike me as a leader for some reason.

Kaboul? This guy knows the club, but as reliable as Ledley's knee.

We have lost Gallas, Parker, Dempsey, King in recent years. Even Van Der Vaart who isn't a captain, but was an experienced player who stood up to be counted.

We know it's a problem, but what options are there out there for us next season? Who can we bring in? Can we bring in a new captain? Or do we look for players who simply hate getting beat. Would love to see a Naybet, Davids figurehead type with the experience and knowledge to help some of the others on the pitch.

I do feel our problems are a little deeper than just a lack of leadership, but it is important. All isn't lost, we do have the basis of what is still a very talented pool of players. For me we just lack a balance in the type of players we have.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I believe in collective/distributive leadership. Heroic leadership has been dying out since the 70s.

I wouldn't even appoint a captain - I'd have 22, who all assume leadership responsibilities at appropriate times.

This is a good book about it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creating-Leaderful-Organisations-Leadership-Everyone/dp/157675233X
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I agree with this in principle I'd much rather a team who all as you say "assume leadership responsibilities". Chelsea (urrrghh) have been long a team which exemplifies this despite "captain" John Terry. Drogba, Lampard, Carvalho, Cech, Cole and many of their players assumed responsibilities as senior statesmen in the team.

I still think it's important for someone on the pitch to realise the ebb and flow of a game and organise and adapt accordingly. For me this figure should be an extension of the thoughts of the gaffer who may struggle to get his message onto the pitch. We've often heard many managers say I can only do so much up to the point where the players take the field. Then they are on their own.
 
Its hard to tell from afar which players communicate on the pitch.

We don't need a shouter as such , just an intelligent player who is a perfectionist and will let the other players know when they're letting the team down.

For me that's not Dawson. Sandro is too eccentric/crazy. Vertonghen doesnt give a **** about his own performance lets alone others.

I think a Walker might be the guy or Eriksen even.
 
Vertonghen, clearly the ideal candidate for me. Put your balls on the line and show us what you're made of Jan.
 
I don't think we have anyone who has the necessary attributes to captain a team with ambitions of breaking into the champs league.

For me, the captain needs to be both a superior player (or at least one that very rarely makes mistakes) and someone who refuses to accept anything other than 100% with the ability to pull other players up to their level when need be. I don't currently think we have anyone who fits the mold.

On the 22 man leader thing, for me that's not really about a captain, it's just something every football team should aspire to. Football is a game played by a vast array of different personalities though, and the likely-hood is that in every team you will have people who feel more comfortable with a leader in place (even those who may assume some leadership responsibilities themselves).
 
Should be the hardest ba$tard, a la Terry, Keane, Vierra. The person you'd follow into battle and wouldn't answer back to, so Sandro for me. Also, to retain the respect of his fellow players, needs to be the player who makes the least mistakes.
 
Modric THFC said:
Its hard to tell from afar which players communicate on the pitch.

We don't need a shouter as such , just an intelligent player who is a perfectionist and will let the other players know when they're letting the team down.

For me that's not Dawson. Sandro is too eccentric/crazy. Vertonghen doesnt give a **** about his own performance lets alone others.

I think a Walker might be the guy or Eriksen even.
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Walker is a good shout, he's not afraid of dishing it out.
 
Modric THFC said:
Its hard to tell from afar which players communicate on the pitch.

We don't need a shouter as such , just an intelligent player who is a perfectionist and will let the other players know when they're letting the team down.

For me that's not Dawson. Sandro is too eccentric/crazy. Vertonghen doesnt give a **** about his own performance lets alone others.

I think a Walker might be the guy or Eriksen even.
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I like that. I think having an intelligent player who can dish out complementary tactical instructions would be useful - more like cricket or rugby captains.

What I'm against is the traditional football model of having the biggest meathead scream clichés like 'get stuck in'.

LVG's captains have tended very much to be the intelligent type - Rijkaard, de Boer, Guardiola - all of whom went on to become top managers.

Don't forget we've a tradition of this too - Blanchflower particularly comes to mind.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I like that. I think having an intelligent player who can dish out complementary tactical instructions would be useful - more like cricket or rugby captains.

What I'm against is the traditional football model of having the biggest meathead scream clichés like 'get stuck in'.

LVG's captains have tended very much to be the intelligent type - Rijkaard, de Boer, Guardiola - all of whom went on to become top managers.

Don't forget we've a tradition of this too - Blanchflower particularly comes to mind.
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All of whom were also born winners/bad losers or whatever you want to call it. It's about the right combination of talent, intelligence and ability to inspire others (be that by shouting and screaming, or by leading by example, a good captain knows which approach suits the different personalities of the team).

I honestly don't feel that we have anyone in the mold currently.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
All of whom were also born winners/bad losers or whatever you want to call it. It's about the right combination of talent, intelligence and ability to inspire others (be that by shouting and screaming, or by leading by example, a good captain knows which approach suits the different personalities of the team).

I honestly don't feel that we have anyone in the mold currently.
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I think Dawson, Verts, Lloris, Sandro and Kaboul is a perfectly capable leadership group. You could maybe add Soldado into that group too once he has settled and found his feet. There's a good mix of experience, intelligence and maturity in that group.

Blimey, Lloris is captain of France and Verts has captained Ajax to multiple titles. All have CL experience and they've all gone or will be going to World Cups (bar Kaboul).
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Should be the hardest ba$tard, a la Terry, Keane, Vierra. The person you'd follow into battle and wouldn't answer back to, so Sandro for me. Also, to retain the respect of his fellow players, needs to be the player who makes the least mistakes.
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I'd rather have a perfectionist like Lahm as captain than the loudest/hardest person in the room.
Keane and Vierra were good captains because they woudlnt settle for their teammates not doing everything perfectly. Nothing to do with them being hard / loud.
 
I think Sandro can grow into a good captain...but as mentioned, he has the punch when playing, but his behavior is eccentric and maybe could be more vocal.

I dont think keepers should be captains. They should be vocal and control their defence by default at this level, so Lloris is a no.

Vertonghen is the clear captain if he starts stepping up, but with hints of him maybe leaving and his depressed look (reminds me of when Bassong lost it) im not sure any more.
 
Leadership needs to start at club/board/manager level.

Can't accuse players of lack of leadership when no one knows what the **** is going on, is TS a interim, is LVG coming, are we doing another clear-out?

Fix that first, then discuss how players manage themselves.
 
Raziel said:
Leadership needs to start at club/board/manager level.

Can't accuse players of lack of leadership when no one knows what the **** is going on, is TS a interim, is LVG coming, are we doing another clear-out?

Fix that first, then discuss how players manage themselves.
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Fair point.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think Dawson, Verts, Lloris, Sandro and Kaboul is a perfectly capable leadership group. You could maybe add Soldado into that group too once he has settled and found his feet. There's a good mix of experience, intelligence and maturity in that group.

Blimey, Lloris is captain of France and Verts has captained Ajax to multiple titles. All have CL experience and they've all gone or will be going to World Cups (bar Kaboul).
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Dawson, too error prone and a bit ****. Therefore hard for him to gain the necessary respect.
Vertonghen, good enough but not enough of an inspirational character to pull players up
Lloris, Potentially yes, but very difficult to influence a team on the pitch from the goal mouth
Sandro, good enough, but a bit of a loon behind the scenes therefore hard for him to gain necessary respect, although I agree he's best of a bad bunch
Kaboul, too error prone to gain necessary respect
Soldado, see Vertonghen

On your point regarding Lloris and Verts, every club is different, captaining a bunch of well disciplined, motivated players who regularly qualify for the CL is different than captaining a bunch of good players who have spent the last few years (bar a couple of occasions) as 'almost' guys.

I do take your point though that they have captained big clubs in the past, its just that every club is different.
 
Used to think it should be Vertonghen, but after the last few weeks he can s#d off. Sandro's my man for the job
 
I think Vertonghen has lost focus, the World Cup is distracting him and he's not alone.
 
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