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Spurs & Jews

I

IsraYid

Hans Segers
Hi everyone, I wanted to start this thread after some discussions with mates in Israel regarding the campaign against the "Y-word".

As a Jewish-Israeli Tottenham fan, this is what I have to say:
While I like Tottenham in England - I wouldn't say I "support" it, as you can support only one team, and I support my local one, but I do like Spurs a lot - there aren't so many Israeli Spurs fans here. However, once Spurs started gaining some success, I did hear some commentators in the telly talking about how Spurs have a relationship with the Jewish community, and Spurs got a lot of support here. Thing is - while people didn't start cheering Spurs claiming it represents us a nation - no one was offended. Contrary to what that campaign suggested. Moreover, even Israeli Gooners I know don't deny the relation between Spurs and London's Jewish community. They respect it.

I guess what I'm saying is: That campaign suggested that Spurs are hurting the Jewish community by calling yourselves "Yids". But from what I see - it's the contrary. I mean, we Jews (those that I know of, here in Israel, at least), regardless of rooting for Spurs in England or not, all applaud what Spurs fans did - insisting that "Yid" ("Jew" in Yiddish) isn't an offensive word. Reminds me of how Google "apologised" for having an antisemitic site appearing in the search results when googling the term "Jew", and they explained that this term is used by antisemites. As a Jews, it was offensive for me to claim that "Jew" is a racial slur! So you can probably understand why I, as a Jew, applaud your usage of the word "Yid". For me, it means that some people blamed you of being a "Jewish" team, and you didn't say it's wrong - but said that there's nothing wrong if it is so. The way you claimed the word "Yid" as an adjective and not a pejorative is admirable. Those who say that Chelsea fans are racists using the term "Yid" forget that it's not the word, it's the way you use it.

I guess that what I wanted to say is - you should know that while in Israel people don't think you're a 100% Jewish team (as you are not), many people do support you because of that relationship to Jews. And more specifically - many people know you have nothing to do with Jews today, and that just makes them appreciate you even more. People just admire how you reclaimed the word "Yid" and insisted it shouldn't be offensive.

As a Jew, who isn't a Spurs supporter (only Maccabi Tel-Aviv supporter) but likes Spurs I did want to say - THANK YOU!
What you did here is great. Many Jews I know of in Israel appreciate it. That's why I was surprised to see what those Jewish Chelsea brother fans said. It seems like they aren't annoyed by antisemitism, but are annoyed by its expressions. If calling yourself "a Yid" is offensive - than being a Jew is offensive! What I want to say is that people in Israel know you mostly aren't Jews, but that's why we RESPECT you for what you're doing. That's standing up against racism! It's very easy to ban every ethnic word. But what you're doing - is using that ethnic word, saying ethnicities exist, and it's okay! That's beautiful. That's why Jews I know of in London support you by the way. Not because you're "Jewish", but because you stood up to antisemitism. So thank you.
 
I know this subjuect has been covered elsewhere, but Capels/Kippahs/Yamulkahs off (see what I did?) for this insightful perspective from Israel!

As you say, it's not necessarily the word itself that can be deemed offensive, more the way in which it is used (or hurled in some cases) after all, the quaint little Chelsea ditty; "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler's gonna gas 'em again" doesn't even CONTAIN the word Yid, yet I'm sure most would agree, is one of THE most odiuos, filthy disgusting songs to spew forth from ANY football terrace EVER... and makes the Sol Campbell song seem like a Nursery Rhyme in comparison!

I just hold my head in shame when a fellow Jew like David Baddeil CAN'T look past his own team's filthy fans and admit that, rather than putting his own heritage first... how DARE he compare our use of the word with their filthy disgusting neo-Nazi fans... then again, I'm sure Abramovitch has to turn a deaf ear to it whenever it's sung... or maybe his "Englkishch you know, not so good and he no understand meaning, yes?"
 
I think this captures the point of Yid chants.

It's to celebrate that it isn't offensive to be Jewish, even if you aren't Jewish and to embrace what other fans tried to make a term of abuse and wear it as a badge of honour.
 
There's plenty of people who find it offensive, even if you don't. I think that's where this should be left personally.
 
Well, we did used to have it used against us in chants from the away crowds, but we turned it into a positive by using it ourselves hence hushing up the fans that used it against us, we turned it into a positive.

Also, were Spurs founding roots not done by a Jewish man ? (This I cant be completely sure of)
 
Sport and politics dont mix, Yid is just a word no more than that, most rival supporters who use it dont associate it with any anti-semtism, its just a way of belittling us as Spurs supporters, its like calling Luton town supporters "hatters".
 
Jimmy-g said:
Sport and politics dont mix, Yid is just a word no more than that, most rival supporters who use it dont associate it with any anti-semtism, its just a way of belittling us as Spurs supporters, its like calling Luton town supporters "hatters".
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They used to, learn your history.
 
I know a loads of Jewish fans who love calling themselves Yid Army and reflect what the OP says, they're really proud to be fans of a club whose supporters have stood up against racism
 
IsraYid said:
What I want to say is that people in Israel know you mostly aren't Jews, but that's why we RESPECT you for what you're doing. That's standing up against racism! It's very easy to ban every ethnic word. But what you're doing - is using that ethnic word, saying ethnicities exist, and it's okay! That's beautiful. That's why Jews I know of in London support you by the way. Not because you're "Jewish", but because you stood up to antisemitism. So thank you.
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To be honest, the vast majority are only dimly aware of the history of this. 'Yid' just means 'Tottenham' for most people these days. Very few will be chanting in on the basis of 'isn't this great? We're combating racism!'.
 
And that is a bit of misrepresentation of what the Baddiels were saying. And isn't like it is only them. This campaign has been ongoing for a number of years because of complaints from Jewish (match going) fans of other clubs. And I think what they think is a bit more pertinent than someone in Israel!
 
There are a lot worse things in the world than us calling ourselves Yids in my opinion. I'm a proud Yid but not Jewish - these days, it means I'm proudly Spurs, but in the context of our history and what it meant in years gone by, I'm also proud that we have taken a slanderous term and made it our own.
 
Harry_Perkins said:
And that is a bit of misrepresentation of what the Baddiels were saying. And isn't like it is only them. This campaign has been ongoing for a number of years because of complaints from Jewish (match going) fans of other clubs. And I think what they think is a bit more pertinent than someone in Israel!
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On this topic sort of anyway. I got told by my sister who works as a solictor that being offensive is how someone takes it, so even if a person saying something does not mean it in an offensive way it does not matter if the person on the receiving end takes it offensively.

So from what i can understand if someone says to me "oh you taco don't put it there but over there" now bearing in mind i work as a locksmith and part time cabbie and spent years on a building site so work with people who talk in looser terms. Then really i could find offence with a lot of little things.

I think the rules need to be made clearer, with the word nigger we all know it is wrong so do not use it. Things can not be left to peoples opinon of things, the has to be clear rules and guidlines. Yid is not an offensive word so people can not lay the claim that they find it offensive. We all know the words that are and we do not use them for that reason.
 
This is my problem, things are only offensive if you choose to find them offensive. So who decides what is and what isnt offensive? Eh you bunch of CU*TS!!!

No offence by the way ;)
 
Language and politeness are evolving concepts. We will be embarrassed by the use of the words yids. If you are a Jew, of course you are entitled to reclaim anti-semitic words as a term of empowerment. But non-Jews using the term? As wrong as someone who is not black using the term nigger.
 
japenesegardenlover said:
On this topic sort of anyway. I got told by my sister who works as a solictor that being offensive is how someone takes it, so even if a person saying something does not mean it in an offensive way it does not matter if the person on the receiving end takes it offensively.

So from what i can understand if someone says to me "oh you taco don't put it there but over there" now bearing in mind i work as a locksmith and part time cabbie and spent years on a building site so work with people who talk in looser terms. Then really i could find offence with a lot of little things.

I think the rules need to be made clearer, with the word nigger we all know it is wrong so do not use it. Things can not be left to peoples opinon of things, the has to be clear rules and guidlines. Yid is not an offensive word so people can not lay the claim that they find it offensive. We all know the words that are and we do not use them for that reason.
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But to some people it is, depending on the context it is used in. I am Jewish and don't take offence at the Yid army chants at all, however if some one were to describe me as a 'dirty Yid' or some such phrase, then I think I've got every reason to take issue with that.
 
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