Psychology, the club and the fans...

[diego_maradona]

Performing under pressure. Well even Pele has helped the world to know it happens to a lot of men, but we sure could do with a Viagra pill on the pitch right now.

For anyone who actually might have occasionally scanned my posts, I've often harped on about the importance of Sports psychology, the culture of the club and how significant it is in where we finish each year and how successful we are. Right now, I'm expecting the Blackburn home game to be a poisonous atmosphere as thousands of disgruntled loyal Spurs fans make their way to their seats only to have seen their proud club once more become a laughing stock in what has been one of our better years.

We all know the drill.

Spurs Blackburn...

4: Here we go, COME ON YOU SPURS. This is the time to show everyone what we're made of...
4.10: Defoe needs to get involved and stop being offside.
4.30: King is finished. Can't believe he got turned by Yakubu so easily.
5.10: "Harry for England"
5.45: BOOOOOOOOO


But why? Had we played them earlier in the year we may well have lost, but it probably would have genuinely been 'one of those games' where we absolutely dominated but just were unlucky. It would have been more likely however that we would have played some great football and played them off the park.

It's crunch time. We HAVE to perform. The fans have been here before. The same stadium, the same faces around us, the same lillywhite kit. Some different players. But we're used to failing. There's almost an air of expectancy that we will revert to type... you know "the same old Tottenham".

The players seem hesitant. No longer playing the fancy free football, where our swift attacking play absolutely tear sides apart, we tend to take extra touches, hold on to the ball for too long, play the ball just behind the man. The crowd start getting nervous.

"We've seen this before, you know they will score soon. We look jittery at the back, what's happened to us".

It's amazing how at this time of the season, no matter who we seem to buy we revert to type. Certain players seem to revel under the pressure. Think Man Utd. Wayne Rooney recently said 'this is where we start to play'. Most players tend to struggle.

Personally I don't even think it's the fans' negative attitude which necessarily causes this. I think the players are very aware of the pressure they probably have put themselves under. But the two elements combined almost cripple us when we need the players to express themselves more than ever.

How do we break this culture of failure at crunch time? We know how difficult it must be to play in an atmosphere where failure is unthinkable. But we're so quick to shout "your f***** sh*t Benny!"
If we know we struggle under pressure, let's try and help alleviate that pressure?

We all need a reality check. Even in the worse case scenario, what could happen? We don't get fourth. We don't get Champions League. Well, we'll still be here. Perhaps the players need to know that we will be with them regardless of what happens.
We've seen our side 3 up against 10 men at home only to lose.
We've been 3 up v Man Utd at half time, only to be hit for 5.
We've thrown away a 12/13 point lead over the Goons.
We've seen our side puke their guts out when we needed a win to secure a CL place.
We've seen our side humiliated in a semi final v Chelsea.
We've seen them under Christian Gross, and Nicola Berti blowing raspberries, and Neale Fenn and Rory Allen!

And guess what?? We still come back for more. Because we love it. We're glutton for punishment.

We need to try and break this mould of the inevitable. The players, Harry and all the staff are no doubt trying to turn this around. It's fairly obvious they're struggling. But we're in this together. Although it's not my personal failing if we throw away this Champions League place, yet I will be every bit as miserable as the players if not more, because for some stupid reason it matters. It matters more than things that should matter so much more.

We need to make it enjoyable for the players. We pay money to watch them play. And we all know that they can play.

I don't even know the point of this thread, and it's turned into a Steff type "optimistic" thread... but lets just support the lads on Sunday and the rest of the games no matter what. Because they're our team. And they need to feel that it's ok to try and play the 'Tottenham way'.

What makes us Tottenham? Why do we revert to type? How can we encourage and play our part in breaking the current culture of the club?

 

[paxtonwolf]

I'm liking this post.

As I said yesterday, the nearer Sunday gets, the more postive I'll start to feel. We'll be there for all 4 games and I'll certainly give them as much support as I can thats for sure.

Perhaps everybody outside of WHL saying we are bottlers, same old Tottenham they,ve blown it again, it might just take work in our favour, who's to know

 

[Joesh]

I think sometimes we play r?¿ally badly and win and accept we got lucky games like fulham away or Watford for eg. So instead of learning from this, we get in the same position again and this time our luck runs out, we lose and we dont know why. I remember the City Utd Fa cup game where Utd let a 10 Emirates Marketing Project draw with them, Fergusons interview after the game was one as if his team were beaten by 4 or 5 goals. I am sure that this was not ignored in the next training sessions but have a gut feeling it wouldnt happen here.

Other factors could be us as fans over rating some of our players while under rating the opposition which makes us set targets the team/players arent good enough to reach.

 

[Modric THFC]

I'm liking this post.

As I said yesterday, the nearer Sunday gets, the more postive I'll start to feel. We'll be there for all 4 games and I'll certainly give them as much support as I can thats for sure.

Perhaps everybody outside of WHL saying we are bottlers, same old Tottenham they,ve blown it again, it might just take work in our favour, who's to know

I've noticed this with lots of people. I think its the other way round. Its the further away from the last crap performance then the more positive people feel. People try to push it out of their memory. Only for it to re-emerge in front of them as they watch the next game. Then the vitriol, bile and abuse starts again.

 

[diego_maradona]

I've noticed this with lots of people. I think its the other way round. Its the further away from the last crap performance then the more positive people feel. People try to push it out of their memory. Only for it to re-emerge in front of them as they watch the next game. Then the vitriol, bile and abuse starts again.

Your right. is it even possible to change this?

 

[1882]

It's crunch time. We HAVE to perform. The fans have been here before. The same stadium, the same faces around us, the same lillywhite kit. Some different players. But we're used to failing. There's almost an air of expectancy that we will revert to type... you know "the same old Tottenham".

The players seem hesitant. No longer playing the fancy free football, where our swift attacking play absolutely tear sides apart, we tend to take extra touches, hold on to the ball for too long, play the ball just behind the man. The crowd start getting nervous.

"We've seen this before, you know they will score soon. We look jittery at the back, what's happened to us".

It's amazing how at this time of the season, no matter who we seem to buy we revert to type. Certain players seem to revel under the pressure.

Some fudging excellent points!!

I've always wondered why it seems WE seem to turn perfectly decent players into something resembling a quivering wreck of a shadow of that player (and it works in reverse, how when players leave, they can turn into World beaters... just not at OUR club!)

IS it us, the fans? is it the 'aura' of the club, or the stench of underachievement that stains the kit they wear?

The one constant is TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR; The CLUB and the FANS... EVERYONE else comes and goes as they please... we're fools to think they'd give two bricks if we don't qualify for the CL... 'cos if TOTTENHAM don't, then the players who desperately want to will leave to play CL football elsewhere...

I've an idea, IF Bale/Modric/Ade/VdV want CL football so much, fudging earn the right while you're here! 'cos if they introduced a rule whereby ANY player who had contributed to such an appalling tossing away of a perfectly good CL place in little under 2 months REALLY wants to leave, they're slapped with a season-long CL ban WHATEVER club they move to... that would see them pull their fudging fingers out while they're HERE to earn that place.

If Modric wants to leave for Man Utd/Chelsea... FINE by me, but if it's JUST for CL football and fudge all else, then lets see how much you like the idea of being at a CL club if YOU weren't allowed to play in the competition... still wanna leave??

 

[diego_maradona]

Some fudging excellent points!!

I've always wondered why it seems WE seem to turn perfectly decent players into something resembling a quivering wreck of a shadow of that player (and it works in reverse, how when players leave, they can turn into World beaters... just not at OUR club!)

IS it us, the fans? is it the 'aura' of the club, or the stench of underachievement that stains the kit they wear?

The one constant is TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR; The CLUB and the FANS... EVERYONE else comes and goes as they please... we're fools to think they'd give two bricks if we don't qualify for the CL... 'cos if TOTTENHAM don't, then the players who desperately want to will leave to play CL football elsewhere...

I've an idea, IF Bale/Modric/Ade/VdV want CL football so much, fudging earn the right while you're here! 'cos if they introduced a rule whereby ANY player who had contributed to such an appalling tossing away of a perfectly good CL place in little under 2 months REALLY wants to leave, they're slapped with a season-long CL ban WHATEVER club they move to... that would see them pull their fudging fingers out while they're HERE to earn that place.

If Modric wants to leave for Man Utd/Chelsea... FINE by me, but if it's JUST for CL football and fudge all else, then lets see how much you like the idea of being at a CL club if YOU weren't allowed to play in the competition... still wanna leave??

I'm not sure mate. I don't think they fail on purpose. It's not a lack of effort that means we are in the position we are in my view.

 

[milo]

An excellent post, Diego and one I might have to chew over before replying in detail.

I think that one problem I will have in replying is that I don't have enough experience of watching other teams to make a comparison between us and others. One of the things that strikes me about Spurs is that even when things are going well, there is uncertainty and doubt bubbling just under the surface.

The happiest I remember White Hart Lane during my time of watching us was when Jol was in charge at the end of the season when we qualified for Europe for the first time in donkeys years and the following season up until lasagne-gate. But even then there were still people all around WHL slagging off our own players and getting on the teams back. It does my head in at times and I am sure gets to the players but like I said at the beginning of this post, it is difficult for me to comment on whether this is a Spurs thing or if everyone else is just as bad.

 

[suffolkspur]

I haven't really seen much success in the time i've been supporting the club so disappointment and mediocrity is kind of part of my view of how we will do. I've seen a couple of league cup wins but not much else. I enjoyed the time we had under Jol as it was the first time that i have really seen us challenge or threaten to challenge for the top places and i was thrilled when we qualified for the champions league and went on the run to the quarter finals.

This season has ultimately ended up as one of utter frustration for me even though for the vast majority of the campagin we have been one of the best teams in the league. When we were going through that run earlier in the year i kept saying "yeah this is great but i dont expect it to last, we'll drop points next week, we are Tottenham, i expect us to fall apart......" because really aside from 1 or 2 years thats all ive known. But then the run went on, and on and i saw us in 3rd place with a massive gap to the rest and i finally believed. I finally believed this was the year that my doubts would be unfounded, i would be proved wrong and we would be rid of that choking habit that i've seen time and time again since becoming a supporter. There was no way we were going to fail. We've ended up doing just that. I thought we were seeing a new Tottenham but as you say we as a club reverted to type.

It seems to me to be ingrained in the fabric of the club and i dont know whether we as supporters can really do anything to change that. I try to stay positive and its only been in the past week that my hope of a top 3 finish has gone. I had a small hope when Arsenal drew with Chelsea but i dont think i really believed. We as supporters can try to stay positive but positivity will only do so much as far as transfering that vibe to the players. How long can you stay positive week in week out if you see things that frustrate you be it what you to perceive to be lack of effort, crazy tactics, mind boggling substitions? I think even the most positve amongst us will reach a point where they just need to let rip.

I dont think unless someone who is a true winner/leader with a vision comes in and acheives some success that things will change. At the end of the day for all our improved league performances the past few seasons we really havent consistently been competitive for anything save the league cup. We threw the Europa league, we had a good run in the champions league but fell well short of being in with a chance of that, have reached a couple of FA cup semi's and fallen and lost a final or 2 in the league cup as well. Nearly men. We need to be lucky. Acheive something truly special and the vibe will change. People will believe. Until then I dont know.

 

[Joesh]

An excellent post, Diego and one I might have to chew over before replying in detail.

I think that one problem I will have in replying is that I don't have enough experience of watching other teams to make a comparison between us and others. One of the things that strikes me about Spurs is that even when things are going well, there is uncertainty and doubt bubbling just under the surface.

The happiest I remember White Hart Lane during my time of watching us was when Jol was in charge at the end of the season when we qualified for Europe for the first time in donkeys years and the following season up until lasagne-gate. But even then there were still people all around WHL slagging off our own players and getting on the teams back. It does my head in at times and I am sure gets to the players but like I said at the beginning of this post, it is difficult for me to comment on whether this is a Spurs thing or if everyone else is just as bad.

I agree, I have noticed this alot too. Our fans are so harsh, just think of Robbo and Gomes getting cheered sarcastically every time they caught the ball. And the nerves definately transfer. You can see the players get worse with each groan from the crowd. This is one way we have got closer to Arsenal. For some games, there is little in the way of atmosphere as the crowd are just sitting expecting the team to just blow away the opposition. Because of the lack of singing, each mistake is highlighted. Of course, the reaction is worse for the current scape goat.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The problem is, you don't get that winning mentality until you win and then consistently win.

What I don't get is, we finished in the top 4, we seemed to have shaken off the "flaky Tottenham" tag by beating Arsenal, Chelsea and wrapping up 4th place at Eastlands. Then the following season, we started to score late goals and come from behind numerous times, we look comfortable in the Champions League and unfazed for the most part (bar one shocking half in Milan), but then we collapse in the second half of the season. We then have a nightmare start to the season, you start to think is last season still on their minds? But we go on an 11 match unbeaten run and sit comfortably in 3rd place, but we bottle it again in the second half of the season. It baffles me!

 

[NickTB]

Awesome post. This is a question I and others around me have asked for YEARS. Why do we have this expectancy to fail? You just don't get it at the likes of Manure L'arse (Mainly) and Chelski. Why us? It really does seem to be like an albatross hanging over us. A footballing sword of Damocles

 

[DubaiSpur]

We're seventh highest in the league when it comes to wages, I think. And we're historically the fifth most successful English club. We've never won the European Cup, and have only won the league twice in our history. We are the definition of upper mid-table safety. And that probably transmits directly to the players, consciously or subconsciously. After all, why try harder when the last great era to live up to was fifty one years ago?

The only way that'll change is if we;

a)have a period of sustained success, which seems unlikely at the present time,

b)hire a Ferguson, Wenger, or Nicholson; an inspirational, one-club manager who will rebrand the entire club and bring us an era of unprecedented success, which, again, seems unlikely given present candidates,

c)get bought by a billionaire who bankrolls us to a title or two, which will stay in the books long after the knowledge that we cheated to get them will, or

d)find a magnificently talented/inspirational leader-like player or two in our youth academy who professes a fierce loyalty to the club and is willing to stick around at the club for however long it takes for it to finally flourish, which seems...optimistic, at best.

Until one or more of the above four happen, that malaise is not going away. For better or for worse, all the clubs we're aiming to measure up against have had either enormous luck, inspirational management, boatloads of money or a fiercely loyal and talented group of players to call upon. We haven't had any of these, and that's why we appear to be the poor relations to the rest of these competitors.

Still, one day our luck will change, and we will get our own luck. One day.

One day.

 

[AdamB]

Dont want to turn this into another anti-Harry thread however the psychological strength which helps you overcome appalling runs like the one we're on artly comes from team-work, togetherness etc and I think that that must be very very difficult for teh players and manager to have at the moment given its pretty much a given that Harry is leaving. I wouldnt blame the players for having half an eye on the beach already

 

[We are Tottenham]

Performing under pressure. Well even Pele has helped the world to know it happens to a lot of men, but we sure could do with a Viagra pill on the pitch right now.

For anyone who actually might have occasionally scanned my posts, I've often harped on about the importance of Sports psychology, the culture of the club and how significant it is in where we finish each year and how successful we are. Right now, I'm expecting the Blackburn home game to be a poisonous atmosphere as thousands of disgruntled loyal Spurs fans make their way to their seats only to have seen their proud club once more become a laughing stock in what has been one of our better years.

We all know the drill.

Spurs Blackburn...

4: Here we go, COME ON YOU SPURS. This is the time to show everyone what we're made of...
4.10: Defoe needs to get involved and stop being offside.
4.30: King is finished. Can't believe he got turned by Yakubu so easily.
5.10: "Harry for England"
5.45: BOOOOOOOOO


But why? Had we played them earlier in the year we may well have lost, but it probably would have genuinely been 'one of those games' where we absolutely dominated but just were unlucky. It would have been more likely however that we would have played some great football and played them off the park.

It's crunch time. We HAVE to perform. The fans have been here before. The same stadium, the same faces around us, the same lillywhite kit. Some different players. But we're used to failing. There's almost an air of expectancy that we will revert to type... you know "the same old Tottenham".

The players seem hesitant. No longer playing the fancy free football, where our swift attacking play absolutely tear sides apart, we tend to take extra touches, hold on to the ball for too long, play the ball just behind the man. The crowd start getting nervous.

"We've seen this before, you know they will score soon. We look jittery at the back, what's happened to us".

It's amazing how at this time of the season, no matter who we seem to buy we revert to type. Certain players seem to revel under the pressure. Think Man Utd. Wayne Rooney recently said 'this is where we start to play'. Most players tend to struggle.

Personally I don't even think it's the fans' negative attitude which necessarily causes this. I think the players are very aware of the pressure they probably have put themselves under. But the two elements combined almost cripple us when we need the players to express themselves more than ever.

How do we break this culture of failure at crunch time? We know how difficult it must be to play in an atmosphere where failure is unthinkable. But we're so quick to shout "your f***** sh*t Benny!"
If we know we struggle under pressure, let's try and help alleviate that pressure?

We all need a reality check. Even in the worse case scenario, what could happen? We don't get fourth. We don't get Champions League. Well, we'll still be here. Perhaps the players need to know that we will be with them regardless of what happens.
We've seen our side 3 up against 10 men at home only to lose.
We've been 3 up v Man Utd at half time, only to be hit for 5.
We've thrown away a 12/13 point lead over the Goons.
We've seen our side puke their guts out when we needed a win to secure a CL place.
We've seen our side humiliated in a semi final v Chelsea.
We've seen them under Christian Gross, and Nicola Berti blowing raspberries, and Neale Fenn and Rory Allen!

And guess what?? We still come back for more. Because we love it. We're glutton for punishment.

We need to try and break this mould of the inevitable. The players, Harry and all the staff are no doubt trying to turn this around. It's fairly obvious they're struggling. But we're in this together. Although it's not my personal failing if we throw away this Champions League place, yet I will be every bit as miserable as the players if not more, because for some stupid reason it matters. It matters more than things that should matter so much more.

We need to make it enjoyable for the players. We pay money to watch them play. And we all know that they can play.

I don't even know the point of this thread, and it's turned into a Steff type "optimistic" thread... but lets just support the lads on Sunday and the rest of the games no matter what. Because they're our team. And they need to feel that it's ok to try and play the 'Tottenham way'.

What makes us Tottenham? Why do we revert to type? How can we encourage and play our part in breaking the current culture of the club?

:barnet:

 

[GGyid]

It's ingrained 'Spurs? they always let you down'

 

[tynesidespur]

This season has ultimately ended up as one of utter frustration for me even though for the vast majority of the campagin we have been one of the best teams in the league. When we were going through that run earlier in the year i kept saying "yeah this is great but i dont expect it to last, we'll drop points next week, we are Tottenham, i expect us to fall apart......" because really aside from 1 or 2 years thats all ive known. But then the run went on, and on and i saw us in 3rd place with a massive gap to the rest and i finally believed. I finally believed this was the year that my doubts would be unfounded, i would be proved wrong and we would be rid of that choking habit that i've seen time and time again since becoming a supporter. There was no way we were going to fail. We've ended up doing just that. I thought we were seeing a new Tottenham but as you say we as a club reverted to type.

This is the crux of it. And I think this collapse actually causes bigger problems than just this season. The fan/team relationship is a 2-way thing. I think most fans had a similar attitude to yours but when we went through January winning game after game, I along with many others finally stopped doubting and began to almost expect victories. Its turned out to be the biggest mistake I could ever make as a fan. Its one I won't make again. Many fans will have had the same attitude and the trust that the fans had in this group of players has been severely eroded by this bad run.

Diego has made reference to the fans losing patience with the team at home in the past. This season it hasn't been as evident up until Feb. The fans were more relaxed as they had confidence in the team to secure the 3 points. If we get to next January in 3rd position or better I doubt the players will be afforded the same luxury and will find WHL an anxiety-filled place if its 0-0 or worse after 60 mins. They only have themselves to blame for that.

 

[spurspinter1]

Fair points tyneside, I for one didn't get caught up in the whole title race, but had the thought that CL was pretty much secure as a worst case scenario, which in hindsight is pretty stupid!

Although I'm not actually massively bothered. Another season in Europa could be the best thing, players like Caulker Livermore Townsend Carroll Kane get a good amount of football next season which in the long term could have us challenging for bigger and better things, I really think these players have potential. Maybe I'm just desperately attempting to seek positives in the situation.

 

[diego_maradona]

I wonder though. Is WHL any more anxiety filled than OT or The Emirates? Has it anything to do with the fans at all?

Do the players in those sides have the ability to deliver when under that pressure. Do they realise that failure at the club is not acceptable?

I think all fans are the same. We react immediately to things when it's not going well. When we score everything changes

 

[ArcspacE]

I wonder though. Is WHL any more anxiety filled than OT or The Emirates? Has it anything to do with the fans at all?

Those fans have been spoilt over the deacdes and more often than not - witnessed their team producing the goods.

We on the other hand are far more insecure about any 'potential' success on the horizon and appear to panic/become nervous as soon as something threatens that - i.e. 'don't fudging take away the little bit of happiness', etc. In addition - history of late is always against us so it quickly becomes a case of 'not again, ffs' and it simply enters a downwards spiral from there on.