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Our 2 big problems this season...

T

the dza

Christian Ziege
Firstly, let's say that this season has been brilliant for us, hopefully it will end up our best ever of the Premier League era. We've seen big improvements on last season and the real emergence of Poch's style of play. So don't take this thread as being too critical of Poch and the boys, because it isn't.

However, we can still get better and, if we'd like to win the league (and I think we could) then there are two big problems we have to solve.

1. We have to win more home games. If you go back over the seasons gone by, title challenges are generally built on very strong home form. We are currently the 5th best team in the league at home, 2nd best team away. We have failed to win in 9 out of 19 home games -- that leaves us with a lot of points to make up away from home. Certainly too many to challenge for the league title in most seasons and ultimately, it's probably cost us this season too.

2. The other big problems is the amount of points we drop from winning positions -- we have dropped 20 points from winning positions, which is more than any other team in the league.

When you think about it, it's remarkable we have done as well as we have when you take these two problems into account. And if we could just fix them even a little bit, we could probably win the league.

So what do you think? Why do we have these problems? And how can we go about fixing them?
 
our biggest problem this season, imo, is Chelsea, United and City being crap

if we were sat in fourth now desperately trying to hang on to 4th from the inevitable late Arsenal charge we'd all be delighted, that would have been a clear improvement on last season, even finishing 5 and taking it to the last day would be a positive

as it is we've had a tilt at a title fight we had absolutely no right being in, the fact that it's villa who have ended up running away with it only makes it worse, it adds to the narrative that it should have been us

it's all so close and fresh, we can't see the wood for the trees
 
the dza said:
Firstly, let's say that this season has been brilliant for us, hopefully it will end up our best ever of the Premier League era. We've seen big improvements on last season and the real emergence of Poch's style of play. So don't take this thread as being too critical of Poch and the boys, because it isn't.

However, we can still get better and, if we'd like to win the league (and I think we could) then there are two big problems we have to solve.

1. We have to win more home games. If you go back over the seasons gone by, title challenges are generally built on very strong home form. We are currently the 5th best team in the league at home, 2nd best team away. We have failed to win in 9 out of 19 home games -- that leaves us with a lot of points to make up away from home. Certainly too many to challenge for the league title in most seasons and ultimately, it's probably cost us this season too.

2. The other big problems is the amount of points we drop from winning positions -- we have dropped 20 points from winning positions, which is more than any other team in the league.

When you think about it, it's remarkable we have done as well as we have when you take these two problems into account. And if we could just fix them even a little bit, we could probably win the league.

So what do you think? Why do we have these problems? And how can we go about fixing them?
Click to expand...

Raymond Verheijen (some Dutch fitness coach of considerable renown) has just said that he wasn't surprised by our recent collapse, apparently. We ran too much relative to Leicester, and we suffered for it. Looking back, I think that's true of the season as a whole; our pressing is integral to our play, but we did it with a very thin side, lacking in quality off the bench. Our pressing will (absolutely, without question) tire us out in game after game, and it is incumbent upon sides like us who do play such a style to have a strong bench to call on, to rotate well and to substitute fresher legs at key times to keep concentration and momentum up heading into the final third of games.

We drop points because we're mentally and physically tired out by our efforts to gain leads in the first place, and that needs to be addressed, I think. Poch has a busy summer ahead of him, and I'm confident that we'll see quality players coming in to beef up our bench and put us on a more solid footing in that regard; and the last thing we should do is head into another season with a @Gutter Boy-esque bench full of youngsters and squad fillers like Mason and Carroll. They have their place ,a very important place; and some of them have to be given real chances in the side as the seasons wear on (particularly Pritchard, Onomah, Carter-Vickers and Edwards, imo). But that must not detract from a real need to give Poch a solid 18-22 players to rotate into and out of sides with ease.

Of course ,that's also dependent on Poch himself making proactive substitutions and rotating well. The latter, I'm sure he can do (our full-backs were switched up brilliantly throughout our middle-of-the-season run), but he's always had a problem with substitutions, I think; I remember Saints fans talking about it close to when he was appointed with us.
 
galeforce said:
our biggest problem this season, imo, is Chelsea, United and City being crap

if we were sat in fourth now desperately trying to hang on to 4th from the inevitable late Arsenal charge we'd all be delighted, that would have been a clear improvement on last season, even finishing 5 and taking it to the last day would be a positive

as it is we've had a tilt at a title fight we had absolutely no right being in, the fact that it's villa who have ended up running away with it only makes it worse, it adds to the narrative that it should have been us

it's all so close and fresh, we can't see the wood for the trees
Click to expand...

Even so, we aren't doing well enough at home in the league, and we certainly don't want to be the league leaders in losing points from winning positions. Assuming we want to do better next season (it might take more points to even finish top 4 next time), we have to address these issues imo.
 
@DubaiSpur - that makes a fair bit of sense. Is there an argument for a tactical switch during the game? Even if it was for a 10-15 minute period, so as to preserve some energy that we can use to finish the game strong.
 
The probelm IMO is that as you would expect for a team ahead of schedule the sum of the parts isn't quite there

Our bench hasn't had a big impact and certainly were lacking an impact striker like Solksjaer or Chicarrito which is proven to win you games (Ulloa has done it for Leiceter)

And the general gap between our first 11 and the reserves is noticeable as we have improved. Less so in defence but much more so in midfield and attack

We will improve with the right additions to the squad (internal and external)
 
galeforce said:
our biggest problem this season, imo, is Chelsea, United and City being crap

if we were sat in fourth now desperately trying to hang on to 4th from the inevitable late Arsenal charge we'd all be delighted, that would have been a clear improvement on last season, even finishing 5 and taking it to the last day would be a positive

as it is we've had a tilt at a title fight we had absolutely no right being in, the fact that it's villa who have ended up running away with it only makes it worse, it adds to the narrative that it should have been us

it's all so close and fresh, we can't see the wood for the trees
Click to expand...

Agreed. But with the part highlighted is that a mistake or saying Leicester are like the Villa of old who were competing with us for top four? :S
 
Frequently we drop off after we go into the lead, did it again today and against West Brom for example. I don't know if it's our attempt at game management but we step off the gas, concede and then can't get back up through the gears again. I remember watching United, they would just go for the jugular when they smelt weakness, which we did ironically versus them at home.

We need to start killing these games off and then start conserving energy, or we need someone who can control the pace of the game like Modric did if we're going to try alternate between tempos mid game.

Also I think the drop off in quality to the bench is too far as others have said. Dembele to Mason for example can't work.
 
the dza said:
@DubaiSpur - that makes a fair bit of sense. Is there an argument for a tactical switch during the game? Even if it was for a 10-15 minute period, so as to preserve some energy that we can use to finish the game strong.
Click to expand...

Ideally, yes; late on, withdrawing into our half and setting up a steely two banks of four might help, if it came with us switching to standing off our opponents and maintaining our shape as opposed to chasing them down. The problem is, that philosophy is so at odds with our primary approach of quick pressing and exploiting turnovers of possession that I don't think it possible to mentally train the lads to do both successfully.

Bielsa once said that he'd never lose a game if he had a team of robots to carry out his instructions to the letter. It speaks to the abstract perfection of his tactical approach; it is the promised land of football, attacking, sexy, relentless, unnerving, solid at the back (by way of not giving the opposition any time to form an attack) and deadly up front. But player imperfections and plain tiredness will always ensure that no team ever reaches that nirvana.

Poch is Bielsa's most prominent disciple (well, next to Pep, anyway), so he has to adapt his plans to that reality too. I think a reasonable compromise would be substituting fresher legs in key positions in the spine of the team (i.e, CB, DM, CM, striker) as the game wears on to preserve as much of the ferocity of the press in the middle as possible, while also bringing in fresh minds and hopefully seeing the game out that way. Doing so cumulatively over 38 games would provide us with a lot of rest for the players we do end up taking off.

That, however, requires players that can be trusted to come on and slot into the side in an instant. We have that at CB with Wimmer, but we're lacking in all of the other positions.
 
fernadez said:
Frequently we drop off after we go into the lead, did it again today and against West Brom for example. I don't know if it's our attempt at game management but we step off the gas, concede and then can't get back up through the gears again. I remember watching United, they would just go for the jugular when they smelt weakness, which we did ironically versus them at home.

We need to start killing these games off and then start conserving energy, or we need someone who can control the pace of the game like Modric did if we're going to try alternate between tempos mid game.

Also I think the drop off in quality to the bench is too far as others have said. Dembele to Mason for example can't work.
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Depends on how big a lead we Have to how we play - we have gone on to smash teams like United and Stoke and trying to hold onto a none goal cushion is naturally much harder
 
DubaiSpur said:
Ideally, yes; late on, withdrawing into our half and setting up a steely two banks of four might help, if it came with us switching to standing off our opponents and maintaining our shape as opposed to chasing them down. The problem is, that philosophy is so at odds with our primary approach of quick pressing and exploiting turnovers of possession that I don't think it possible to mentally train the lads to do both successfully.

Bielsa once said that he'd never lose a game if he had a team of robots to carry out his instructions to the letter. It speaks to the abstract perfection of his tactical approach; it is the promised land of football, attacking, sexy, relentless, unnerving, solid at the back (by way of not giving the opposition any time to form an attack) and deadly up front. But player imperfections and plain tiredness will always ensure that no team ever reaches that nirvana.

Poch is Bielsa's most prominent disciple (well, next to Pep, anyway), so he has to adapt his plans to that reality too. I think a reasonable compromise would be substituting fresher legs in key positions in the spine of the team (i.e, CB, DM, CM, striker) as the game wears on to preserve as much of the ferocity of the press in the middle as possible, while also bringing in fresh minds and hopefully seeing the game out that way. Doing so cumulatively over 38 games would provide us with a lot of rest for the players we do end up taking off.

That, however, requires players that can be trusted to come on and slot into the side in an instant. We have that at CB with Wimmer, but we're lacking in all of the other positions.
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Agree about the impact of the Bench and the reserves. The drop in midfield and attack a from the first 11 is noticeable. Our "cover" players are only a a good as players suitable for the likes of West Ham and Southampton so top 8. Our first 11 is top 2 and it's a big gap to bridge

I like Mason but he isn't as good as Dembele or Dier. Njie may be a player but we don't know
Chaldi really changes a game and is simply a goal threat but hasn't delivered hugely as a sub. bentelab has disappeared up his own arse. Carroll is tidy but no more or less (despite his critics). Onomah is a kid

When you look at the defence players gave slotted in without any detriment but not in midfield and attack
 
We create a lot of missed chances. We must focus on being much more clinical in my view. Very easy to say, of course....
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Agree about the impact of the Bench and the reserves. The drop in midfield and attack a from the first 11 is noticeable. Our "cover" players are only a a good as players suitable for the likes of West Ham and Southampton so top 8. Our first 11 is top 2 and it's a big gap to bridge

I like Mason but he isn't as good as Dembele or Dier. Njie may be a player but we don't know
Chaldi really changes a game and is simply a goal threat but hasn't delivered hugely as a sub. bentelab has disappeared up his own arse. Carroll is tidy but no more or less (despite his critics). Onomah is a kid

When you look at the defence players gave slotted in without any detriment but not in midfield and attack
Click to expand...

Not all of them. Son's a top four player, no doubt - and he's come out with credit over the last couple of weeks. I expect big things from him next season if he stays injury-free. Chadli's a reasonable goal threat to bring on, and even today he ghosted into a great position for that late free-kick by Eriksen (too bad he f*cked up the shot, of course). Wimmer, as you say, is a good player able to plug into our defence without concerns, and our full-backs are virtually interchangeable.

Where we are lacking is in rotational cover for Dier, Dembele and Kane. If we need another DM on to see out the game (or replace Dier), we have absolutely no one. If we need another CM to slot in for Dembele and offer the same threat going forward and same defensive solidity at the back, we have no one (we *did* have Mason for a period early in the season, but he's horribly regressed since his injury against Sunderland). If Kane is injured or having an off-day, we have absolutely no one to bring on for him.

If we were looking for positions to fill in preparation for next season, these three stand out. The others are okay.
 
We only have the most point dropped from winning positions because we get into winning position so much.
Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine wont have dropped many points from winning positions.

What cost us the title this year was Leicester's geography. We had to play vicious 10 derby games because we are a London side. Leicester didnt have a single derby game where form goes out the window.
 
Modric THFC said:
We only have the most point dropped from winning positions because we get into winning position so much.
Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine wont have dropped many points from winning positions.

What cost us the title this year was Leicester's geography. We had to play vicious 10 derby games because we are a London side. Leicester didnt have a single derby game where form goes out the window.
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What is the point of that, though? If we take that into consideration, then we'll never win the league because we'll always have to play at least four derby games against Chelsea and Arsenal, and quite possibly six (against West Ham) and more depending on what other London sides show up. Plus, Saints hate us and have for a long time, and the other 'big' clubs can't stand losing to us, plus every other team holds some mystifyingly petty grudge against us for some reason or other.

It is a given that it requires more mental strength to win the league in this situation, but pointing out things we can change is more useful than pointing out the fact that nothing short of physically moving to the Channel Islands will rid us of this disadvantage.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Not all of them. Son's a top four player, no doubt - and he's come out with credit over the last couple of weeks. I expect big things from him next season if he stays injury-free. Chadli's a reasonable goal threat to bring on, and even today he ghosted into a great position for that late free-kick by Eriksen (too bad he f*cked up the shot, of course). Wimmer, as you say, is a good player able to plug into our defence without concerns, and our full-backs are virtually interchangeable.

Where we are lacking is in rotational cover for Dier, Dembele and Kane. If we need another DM on to see out the game (or replace Dier), we have absolutely no one. If we need another CM to slot in for Dembele and offer the same threat going forward and same defensive solidity at the back, we have no one (we *did* have Mason for a period early in the season, but he's horribly regressed since his injury against Sunderland). If Kane is injured or having an off-day, we have absolutely no one to bring on for him.

If we were looking for positions to fill in preparation for next season, these three stand out. The others are okay.
Click to expand...

Son has shown enough and has something about him

Chaldi doesn't impose hinself as a sub and for me needs to leave for his own good

Wimmer has been class

I agree though we need people high quality cover or ideally genuine alternatives in midfield and attack
 
I've posted several times about how concerning it is when we are leading and comfortable and then concede out of nowhere and then cant recover the flow and tempo to get back into the lead. At home this season we have been equalised against on 5 occasions and each time we have failed to win the game. This was going through my mind today when SCBC equalised but the difference today was that was in the 31st minute rather than in the final 15 mins of the game (Stoke, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Woolwich, WBA) and should have afforded us time to re-evaluate and get back into the match. Away from home we did go on to win at Waford and Man C but failed to win at Leicester, WBA, Woolwich and Chelsea.

Last season we were equalised against on 11 occasions yet still went on to win 7 (2 draws and 2 losses) so it is a mental area where we have regressed this season.

Sadly it looks like a fantastic season will be tainted by a lacklustre end to the season; this coupled with a slow start (max of 8 points from 8 games) bookends a brilliant middle of the season. The slow start was almost entirely down to off the field problems (choosing to play the Audi Cup on the eve of the season, not signing any forwards earlier and generally getting to drips with new tactical instruction). However, last 3 games which have seen 7 dropped points are down to mental, physical or tactical failings......and of course being without Alli and Dembele today through petulance didnt help!
 
Two big problems

1. Leicester playing the season of their life
2. We had to play in Backofyourarsestan for worthless Europa League games. 9points dropped from games after EL games.

Both problems will be gone next season so onwards and upwards COYS!
 
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