Last ten minutes

[Pirate55]

I have noticed a distressing trend this season. We are in the habit of conceding goals in the last ten minutes and not scoring any.

Late goals conceded against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Norwich and WBA have cost us 5 points, we also conceded late against Swansea, which luckily didnt cost us, and again yesterday the late goal snuffed out any last chance of a remote, but still possible, equaliser.

On the other hand, we have scored precicely zero goals in this period ourselves. Why is this?

1. AVB's tactics. We bring all 11 men back behind the ball to defend free kicks and corners. This cedes the initiative, doesnt give us an out ball and allows more pressure.

2. AVB's philosophy. He seems to want to "hold what we have" rather than go on and try and win games by larger margins. This is demonstrated by his substitutions which are often negative. Even against a dispirited and poor Villa team who were losing 0-2 and down to 10 men, did we seek to press home our advantage and score more goals - even though 2 more would have seen us go above Everton into 4th.

3. Fitness. Some teams (Arse and Man U in particular) seem to finish games strongly. We dont. Emirates Marketing Project yesterday turned a losing position into a winning one by two late goals. They did it again in the final game of last season to win the PL. It isnt therefore a fluke. That is the key difference between winners and losers.

4. Desire. Apart from a few standout examples (Kaboul scoring the late winner in the 3-2 win at the Emirates, Lennons late equaliser in the 4-4 there and last season VDV scoring a late header to secure a draw against, I think, Stoke) are the important late goals I can immediately bring to mind. Before that, you have to go to Crouch's winner at Emirates Marketing Project and Paul Stalteiri winner at West Ham. Far too few and far between for my liking.

Why are we generally so poor in the last 10 minutes - and what can we do to change it?

 

[THFC6061]

Why are we generally so poor in the last 10 minutes - and what can we do to change it?

Only play for 80 minutes?

Oh... wait a minute... we're already doing that!

 

[jts1882]

We need a negative Fergie time.

How many of those also coincided with bringing on an extra defensive midfielder. In several of the early games we went more attacking and got a goal and then made a defensive substitution.

 

[Spursalot]

Possibly due to a current lack of quality on the bench, excluding yesterday's goal of coure. It's pretty clear who was at fault there.

You are always going to struggle to field a competitive bench with 5/6 good players out. Meaning the opposition manager can have a greater effect upon the game in the latter stages.

 

[markysimmo]

1. AVB's tactics. We bring all 11 men back behind the ball to defend free kicks and corners. This cedes the initiative, doesnt give us an out ball and allows more pressure.

This annoys me so much, its simple, at corners, leave defoe and lennon up top, this means they have to leave back so only will have 6 max in the box, we will have 8, leave all back and they only have to leave one at the back, it invites pressure

 

[jts1882]

But if we bring them back its two extra heads to clear the ball away .... er, though there might be a flaw in that argument.

Bringing Adebayor back is another matter and someone like Drogba can be an incredible help, but with Lennon and Defoe its makes little sense. Leave one on each side of the field and let the opponents choose how much to trust the pace of their defenders.

 

[SUIYHA]

This annoys me so much, its simple, at corners, leave defoe and lennon up top, this means they have to leave back so only will have 6 max in the box, we will have 8, leave all back and they only have to leave one at the back, it invites pressure

Also annoys me when we leave Lennon on the line. You have to have a man on the line, but why the smallest man on the pitch? He should be waiting on the edge of the box to counter-attack if we clear it.

Something I don't think AVB gets is the concept of momentum and pressure. Too often we've been winning and dominating the game, only for a defensive substitution to throw away the initiative and invite pressure onto the team. Jol used to do that a lot and it cost us plenty of points. Sometimes it can actually be beneficial to bring on an attacking player when you're winning the game, just to keep the opponents pinned back. A classic example of this I remember was an FA Cup game in about 2007 when we played Chelsea at WHL. We were 2-0 down, but then scored a penalty with about 15 minutes to go to bring it back to 2-1. It was an evening game so the atmosphere was louder than usual anyway, the crowd were buoyed by the goal and most managers in Mourinho's position would have thought "oh brick" and tried to shut up shop. Instead, he responded by bringing on Arjen Robben, because he knew we'd be scared of his pace and wouldn't commit as many men forward as we might otherwise have done, and secondly because if he started running at our players it would force is back into our own half to defend.

I'm yet to see AVB show this kind of innovation in his substitutions. Instead we've seen things like Defoe coming off for Huddlestone when winning 1-0 against Norwich and dominating (conceded a late equaliser), Defoe coming off for Jenas when 1-0 up against West Brom (conceded a late equaliser), Livermore about to come on for Huddlestone when winning against Chelsea and clearly on top before they equalised, but then he made the substitution anyway.

 

[Rorschach]

Also annoys me when we leave Lennon on the line. You have to have a man on the line, but why the smallest man on the pitch? He should be waiting on the edge of the box to counter-attack if we clear it.

Something I don't think AVB gets is the concept of momentum and pressure. Too often we've been winning and dominating the game, only for a defensive substitution to throw away the initiative and invite pressure onto the team. Jol used to do that a lot and it cost us plenty of points. Sometimes it can actually be beneficial to bring on an attacking player when you're winning the game, just to keep the opponents pinned back. A classic example of this I remember was an FA Cup game in about 2007 when we played Chelsea at WHL. We were 2-0 down, but then scored a penalty with about 15 minutes to go to bring it back to 2-1. It was an evening game so the atmosphere was louder than usual anyway, the crowd were buoyed by the goal and most managers in Mourinho's position would have thought "oh brick" and tried to shut up shop. Instead, he responded by bringing on Arjen Robben, because he knew we'd be scared of his pace and wouldn't commit as many men forward as we might otherwise have done, and secondly because if he started running at our players it would force is back into our own half to defend.

I'm yet to see AVB show this kind of innovation in his substitutions. Instead we've seen things like Defoe coming off for Huddlestone when winning 1-0 against Norwich and dominating (conceded a late equaliser), Defoe coming off for Jenas when 1-0 up against West Brom (conceded a late equaliser), Livermore about to come on for Huddlestone when winning against Chelsea and clearly on top before they equalised, but then he made the substitution anyway.

Good post. And I agree with Marky leaving Defoe and Lennon further up the pitch. It's a tactic that Arsenal used to devastating effect with Pires. He was an out ball from every set piece they faced.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I always thought it was down to fitness and having a winning mentality. We started to score late goals during the 10/11 season, but we haven't done it for over a season consistently.

I think if you play for Scum/United, you need to be a winner. Those clubs demand more than simply having ability.

 

[Jordinho]

We have had a shortage of options on the bench so far and the need for points sometimes outweigh the desire to attack. Build a bit more confidence and get more players match fit and I think (hope) we'll see a difference.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I thought we looked to have run out of petrol, by about the 70th minute or so. The whole team looked ragged.

 

[Pirate55]

I thought we looked to have run out of petrol, by about the 70th minute or so. The whole team looked ragged.

We are not strong in the closing stages of games at all. We were hanging on like grim death at United and got away with it.

We all seem to want Lennon and or Defoe left up the pitch as an out ball. AVB's substitutions should be more adventurous and not hand the initiative back to the opposition. Townsend was the ideal sub yesterday when we needed a goal. Livermore - why?

 

[Pirate55]

Good post. And I agree with Marky leaving Defoe and Lennon further up the pitch. It's a tactic that Arsenal used to devastating effect with Pires. He was an out ball from every set piece they faced.

Agree with both of you. Townsend was the sub to be used yesterday.

 

[Pirate55]

We have had a shortage of options on the bench so far and the need for points sometimes outweigh the desire to attack. Build a bit more confidence and get more players match fit and I think (hope) we'll see a difference.

Townsend was the ideal sub yesterday. A goal down, the game stretched, Chelsea defenders tiring, nothing to lose.

 

[Pirate55]

But if we bring them back its two extra heads to clear the ball away .... er, though there might be a flaw in that argument.

Bringing Adebayor back is another matter and someone like Drogba can be an incredible help, but with Lennon and Defoe its makes little sense. Leave one on each side of the field and let the opponents choose how much to trust the pace of their defenders.

Great idea. Would mean they would have to leave at least three men back, maybe four. Would give our defenders a better chance to clear as well,

 

[punk_is_back`]

Our fading in the last ten minutes happened long before AVB joined. There is no point in placing the blame on him. In fact if anything we played a slower tempo game in the past few seasons and still faded at the end. Its a credit to the work done that we're still pressing in the latter parts of the second half.

 

[billyiddo]

i don't know how you guys feel but this i the first time in years i am confident of not conceding a goal every time we are defending a corner or freekick - and now some of you are moaning that we have too many players in there defending :lol:

Possibly due to a current lack of quality on the bench, excluding yesterday's goal of coure. It's pretty clear who was at fault there.

You are always going to struggle to field a competitive bench with 5/6 good players out. Meaning the opposition manager can have a greater effect upon the game in the latter stages.

sensible post

 

[Jurgen the German]

I thought we looked to have run out of petrol, by about the 70th minute or so. The whole team looked ragged.

Why is this the case though? It's only October! Our fitness levels are nowhere near the levels of United for example.

I also believe that United and Arsenal fans having seen their teams score so many late goals over the years, they expect them to score, whereas we half heartedly hope Spurs score. Big difference.

 

[Pirate55]

Why is this the case though? It's only October! Our fitness levels are nowhere near the levels of United for example.

I also believe that United and Arsenal fans having seen their teams score so many late goals over the years, they expect them to score, whereas we half heartedly hope Spurs score. Big difference.

But why shouldnt we expect Spurs to score in the last 10 minutes. The game is over 90 minutes. Statistically, we should expect 1/9th of our goals to come in the last 10 minutes. They obviously dont. I think it is a combination of lack of fitness and lack of real desire.

 

[Rorschach]

Are we fading fitness wise or are we fragile mentally? For me I don't think we are any less fit than any other team. That is not the problem in my mind.

How often do Spurs not push home their advantage and get caught with a sucker punch late in the game? Quite often is the answer.

Man Utd and indeed any of the the title contenders do not settle. It is a winning ethos pushed primarily by the management and demanded by their fans. When your opponent is on the ropes that is the time to attack and certainly not to make defensive minded substitutions. Go for the extra goal and kill off the game.