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Lack of Pressing

E

elltrev

Tim Sherwood
What I don't get is why we're not playing a pressing game. That's what stood out most at Southampton, and so that's presumably one of the main reasons we got Poch in. But we're not playing it. Why?

Presumably most people will say that we don't have the players for it, but I don't buy it - a) because a lot of players would have suited it well (e.g. Lamela, Lennon, Holtby, Dembele, Sandro), and b) Southampton didn't exactly have players that are well known for speed / stamina / aggression - Ricky Lambert stands out in particular!

So why aren't we playing it? And why didn't we ever do it properly under AVB either?
 
elltrev said:
What I don't get is why we're not playing a pressing game. That's what stood out most at Southampton, and so that's presumably one of the main reasons we got Poch in. But we're not playing it. Why?

Presumably most people will say that we don't have the players for it, but I don't buy it - a) because a lot of players would have suited it well (e.g. Lamela, Lennon, Holtby, Dembele, Sandro), and b) Southampton didn't exactly have players that are well known for speed / stamina / aggression - Ricky Lambert stands out in particular!

So why aren't we playing it? And why didn't we ever do it properly under AVB either?
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Maybe it is still part of the plan but we are not ready for it to be successful yet? apparently he runs them ragged and said that the hard work will pay off towards the end of the season as we get fitter. I'm willing to write this season off for Poch to get his ideas across.

It takes more than a couple of months to build a philosophy from scratch.
 
elltrev said:
What I don't get is why we're not playing a pressing game. That's what stood out most at Southampton, and so that's presumably one of the main reasons we got Poch in. But we're not playing it. Why?

Presumably most people will say that we don't have the players for it, but I don't buy it - a) because a lot of players would have suited it well (e.g. Lamela, Lennon, Holtby, Dembele, Sandro), and b) Southampton didn't exactly have players that are well known for speed / stamina / aggression - Ricky Lambert stands out in particular!

So why aren't we playing it? And why didn't we ever do it properly under AVB either?
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with you on Southampton. Lambert is probably the one player that stands out, but he's a hard worker that would dependably put a shift in. Shcneidelin, Wanyama, Davies, Rodgriguez, Lallana all suited that style imo.

It's certainly a stand out problem. It's also (imo) noticeable that our pressing has seemingly gotten worse as the season has progressed. Somewhat worryingly I thought the same pattern was evident in both of AVB's seasons at the club.

I think one reason (not excuse) is that we have EL football. Means two games per week, not from a stamina point of view, but just from a time on the training ground working on stuff it might be a bit limiting compared to what Poch had at Southampton and other examples.

I do think some of our players aren't really suited to that style, at least not currently. Ade, Eriksen and Townsend come to mind. As I have mentioned in other threads I would like to see us start more players like the one's you mention in an attempt to up our pressing game over the coming games. A high pressing game really does depend on all the players working together, no room for passengers.
 
I didn't see todays game but in general I agree that there is nothing so far which really suprised me. I too felt that we'd see a real aggression towards winning the ball back high up the field and forcing mistakes. We really look like last years Spurs but worse as whatever fear teams had of us are now gone, I think teams would relish playing at WHL now.

I don't expect instant success but we need to see something towards this style so even if it fails you could acknowledge what we were trying to do. Perhaps the players have outlasted too many managers to want to learn/try or maybe Poch is out of his depth with the pressure he is now under. Either way we are a mess and I am sure with most of our players gone on international duty there will be some discussion between Levy, Baldini and Poch as to where we are going. Maybe we need a Levy statement backing a long term "project" here, for once.
 
braineclipse said:
Not sure I agree with you on Southampton. Lambert is probably the one player that stands out, but he's a hard worker that would dependably put a shift in. Shcneidelin, Wanyama, Davies, Rodgriguez, Lallana all suited that style imo.

It's certainly a stand out problem. It's also (imo) noticeable that our pressing has seemingly gotten worse as the season has progressed. Somewhat worryingly I thought the same pattern was evident in both of AVB's seasons at the club.

I think one reason (not excuse) is that we have EL football. Means two games per week, not from a stamina point of view, but just from a time on the training ground working on stuff it might be a bit limiting compared to what Poch had at Southampton and other examples.

I do think some of our players aren't really suited to that style, at least not currently. Ade, Eriksen and Townsend come to mind. As I have mentioned in other threads I would like to see us start more players like the one's you mention in an attempt to up our pressing game over the coming games. A high pressing game really does depend on all the players working together, no room for passengers.
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Good point regarding Europa - one positive of finishing mid-table this season would be finally being free of that godforsaken turd mound of a competition!
 
elltrev said:
Good point regarding Europa - one positive of finishing mid-table this season would be finally being free of that godforsaken turd mound of a competition!
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It offers a CL place tbf, that is what our club is trying to reach and it is far more likely than a league finish.
 
I'm starting to see the Europa League as a complete nightmare. It makes preparing for a League game so so difficult. And we all hate these Sunday games! It is only at the Round of 32 that it comes alive. Next season we will NOT be in the EL, and thank goodness for that: it is a giant distraction.
 
lurker of old said:
I'm starting to see the Europa League as a complete nightmare. It makes preparing for a League game so so difficult. And we all hate these Sunday games! It is only at the Round of 32 that it comes alive. Next season we will NOT be in the EL, and thank goodness for that: it is a giant distraction.
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I think the players buy into this as a ready made kop out rather than it being true.

They have a loser-take a paycheck mentality and the fact there has been an EL game (even those who weren't involved it in) gives them the excuse not to fully turn up on the Sunday. Club mentality allows this to evolve. We have abig enough squad and enough talent to play better than this - whether we win or lose isn't the point per se - but as professional footballers they should have more pride and composure and desire than what we are regularly seeing EL or not.
 
lurker of old said:
I'm starting to see the Europa League as a complete nightmare. It makes preparing for a League game so so difficult. And we all hate these Sunday games! It is only at the Round of 32 that it comes alive. Next season we will NOT be in the EL, and thank goodness for that: it is a giant distraction.
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If we can't handle Europa, why do we want CL?

Again a coach is ****ing up handling it.

In my opinion, no more than 4 or 5 players should play in both, most of the PL should stay home and train all week and be better prepared for the Sunday game (use it as a advantage, not a challenge)

Europa -> Vorm, Dier, Fazio, Kaboul, Davies, Lamela. Bentaleb, Dembele, Paulinho, Townsend, Ade/Soldado

Lloris, Naughton, Vert, Rose, Mason, Eriksen, Chadli = do not travel, stay at WHL, work on tactics/system, prepare for opponent (and if Poch needs more coaches, ****ing hire them)
 
Joesh said:
It offers a CL place tbf, that is what our club is trying to reach and it is far more likely than a league finish.
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It offers the chance IF you win it after playing 10 matches and travelling half the world to get there. We have a greater chance of top 4 without this sideshow (as Liverpool did last season) than winning the EL with all the group stage dropouts coming in to it.

Also, when was the last time we won a game after a Thursday trip in to Europe because i'm really struggling to remember.
 
Our positioning is so awful at the moment, introducing a high tempo pressing game would only leave us more exposed in certain areas when we inevitably give away possession immediately after gaining it.
 
i'd like to see us doing some smart pressing rather than trying to go 110% for every dead end ball in hope that the opponent will spill it.

pressing from the front also doesn't have to start in the opponents third. we could wait and start pressing only in our half.
 
I think Poch is discovering that when a squad has Europe and internationals, the pressing game he plays is going to be tough as you hit the middle of the season due to fatigue/perhaps a lack of fitness to execute the system.

I think the next two windows will see a lot of shifts in terms of outgoings.

One thing which is vital. We either back this guy properly for 3-4 years or we cut our losses. I say we back him. But we cannot afford a change of personnel (players sold, youths promoted, a few bought) only for amuser sacking and another geezer in with their ideas!
 
If we are going to press we need to do it an organised and intelligent way. Disorganised pressing with a high line, slow CBS, and advanced full backs is not a recipe for success.
I've seen our back four running like crazy towards our goal in an effort to regain some defensive shape far too many times already this season.
 
It's really strange, this one. We played some excellent pressing games in our pre-season campaign, so why it's all gone now - it's strange. Our players should be fit to press, and it's what our manager want from them - so why don't we? It's a mystery.
 
well its pre season of course.

the opposition would be more interested in doing their thing instead of countering ours.
 
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