inverted wingers/wide players

[indianspur]

I dont think I like this style

I would prefer to see left footed attackers down the left and the right footers on the right

all this constant coming inside just makes everything narrow and puts big pressure on the full backs

a lack of quality balls from the flanks means there is very rarely any decent goalmouth action

thoughts?

 

[Mumorn]

this is why Lennon is an asset to our team.

I'm really interested to see our team with Townsend on the left and Lamela on the right if I am honest with you.

 

[SpurMeUp]

If the inverted winger can cross with their weaker foot - or they train hard to be able to do this - then it can offer the best of both worlds. The way football is now, wide players need to be able to mix it up and cut inside or take the ball to the line and cross, as chances and space develop.

 

[Simon_B]

I dont think I like this style

I would prefer to see left footed attackers down the left and the right footers on the right

all this constant coming inside just makes everything narrow and puts big pressure on the full backs

a lack of quality balls from the flanks means there is very rarely any decent goalmouth action

thoughts?

I don't agree. Inverted wingers can be very useful however it's essential that you have attacking full backs that can create the width. Using Siggy on the left with Naughton as left back is not a good solution IMO but if Rose is available it can definately be working.

Also if you use right footers on the right (or left footers on the left) you'll get a lot of crosses, therefore due to Soldado's style I can understand why AVB resort to playing inverted wingers.

We also have different types of wide players where players like Chadli and Siggy are not fast enough to play as traditional wingers. Playing as a traditional winger you need to have a lot of pace to beat the opposition full back on the outside.

I like that we have various options depending on the opposition, therefore I really hope Lennon can get back to his best and would also like to see Townsend tried on the left soon.

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

I would like asymmetric wingers (patent pending)

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

I would like asymmetric wingers (patent pending)

Isn't that already patented as the "wonky"(tm)?

 

[milo]

I'd be interested in seeing some stats on the number of goals scored from crosses. I suspect that there is probably a pretty low conversion rate but don't have anything to back it up.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think the way we play now kind of requires inverted wingers. Townsend, Lamela, Sig etc cutting in to get on the end of a lay off from Eriksen.

I get your frustration though and I would like to see our wingers go on the outside as well.

 

[Spursalot]

I don't agree. Inverted wingers can be very useful however it's essential that you have attacking full backs that can create the width. Using Siggy on the left with Naughton as left back is not a good solution IMO but if Rose is available it can definately be working.

Also if you use right footers on the right (or left footers on the left) you'll get a lot of crosses, therefore due to Soldado's style I can understand why AVB resort to playing inverted wingers.

We also have different types of wide players where players like Chadli and Siggy are not fast enough to play as traditional wingers. Playing as a traditional winger you need to have a lot of pace to beat the opposition full back on the outside.

I like that we have various options depending on the opposition, therefore I really hope Lennon can get back to his best and would also like to see Townsend tried on the left soon.

Nail on Head. Has been one of our biggest issues thus far. I don't like how our Full back backup players aren't so much the 'attacking' players that will give us the width. If Walker gets injured i think we'd be a bit ****ed really.


I don't quite understand Soldado's role. Not bashing the player, but with inverted wingers it is heavily reliant on the forward to hold the ball and lay it off to them so they can take decent shots. That's not really Soldado's style of play though.

 

[DHSF]

If the inverted winger can cross with their weaker foot - or they train hard to be able to do this - then it can offer the best of both worlds. The way football is now, wide players need to be able to mix it up and cut inside or take the ball to the line and cross, as chances and space develop.

I still find it absolutely mind-boggingly staggering that players do not practice using their weaker foot. Some have (Bale has and you can tell) but most are so insistent on using their stronger foot that when they get in great positions they will waste the time in turning to their stronger foot that the moment has gone.

I dont expect someone to be able to use both feet equally but ****s sakes atleast be able to use it.

 

[braineclipse]

I dont think I like this style

I would prefer to see left footed attackers down the left and the right footers on the right

all this constant coming inside just makes everything narrow and puts big pressure on the full backs

a lack of quality balls from the flanks means there is very rarely any decent goalmouth action

thoughts?

In terms of chances created in games against perceived inferior opposition I think we're doing better so far this season than most "normal winger" setups we've seen in the last 20 years.

We're certainly creating more than what we did towards the start of last season when we played Bale left and Lennon right. There was the period under Redknapp when we were at our very best where those two were on the flanks. That was probably the only period I can think of where we've created more chances than we've done recently with our inverted wingers.

You can say it puts big pressure on the full backs. I more like to think of it as giving our fullbacks the chance to express themselves going forward.

I like it, although as I've stated repeatedly I'm glad we have the options of going for more traditional wingers with Lennon and Townsend in our squad. Will be important in some games I think.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If we had old-school touchline hugging wingers, who would they cross to?

We don't exactly have Andy Carroll and Kenwyn Jones stood waiting to leap for them. Players cutting in to get up closer to and interchange with Soldado and Eriksen/Holtby, and who keep possession rather than player percentage balls, is exactly what we need.

And there extra pressure on the full back is compensated by the wall of steel that is sat in front of the defence.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I still find it absolutely mind-boggingly staggering that players do not practice using their weaker foot. Some have (Bale has and you can tell) but most are so insistent on using their stronger foot that when they get in great positions they will waste the time in turning to their stronger foot that the moment has gone.

I dont expect someone to be able to use both feet equally but ****s sakes atleast be able to use it.

You can definitely do it too. I was strongly right-footed and for 15 years my left foot was like a 3-year-old kicking the ball. But then I got a big injury on my right and was forced to learn to compensate and protect it. Now I'm almost ambidextrous and have found a new career as a LB.

 

[braineclipse]

Nail on Head. Has been one of our biggest issues thus far. I don't like how our Full back backup players aren't so much the 'attacking' players that will give us the width. If Walker gets injured i think we'd be a bit ****ed really.


I don't quite understand Soldado's role. Not bashing the player, but with inverted wingers it is heavily reliant on the forward to hold the ball and lay it off to them so they can take decent shots. That's not really Soldado's style of play though.

Soldado's role in a team with inverted wingers is about much more than laying the ball off for others to have a shot from range.

If we had old-school touchline hugging wingers, who would they cross to?

We don't exactly have Andy Carroll and Kenwyn Jones stood waiting to leap for them. Players cutting in to get up closer to and interchange with Soldado and Eriksen/Holtby, and who keep possession rather than player percentage balls, is exactly what we need.

And there extra pressure on the full back is compensated by the wall of steel that is sat in front of the defence.

It's not only about who to cross to, although that's obviously also a good point. It's also about which kind of crossing situations we get into.

Remember Bale against Inter at home, how fantastic it was. Yet a couple of weeks later average PL sides could shut him down effectively by sitting deep. That's part of the problem with traditional wingers, for the most part they need space to run into to be effective. Even then central defenders will get to most crosses delivered and like Milo pointed out there's probably a rather low conversion rate from crosses in general.

Whereas traditional wingers often need that space to run into we end up facing a lot of teams that sit back and defend deep against us. To me inverted wide players makes a lot of sense.

 

[SteveAWOL]

If we'd managed to sign Coentrao then I believe we'd have seen the full benefit of the over lapping FBs and thus the inverted wingers but neither Rose nor Walker are particularly great cossers and when Naughton plays on the left then the system just doesn't work as the opposition RB doesn't have to worry about anyone whipping in crosses from the byline with us having 2 right footers on the left flank.

I'd be interested in seeing some stats on the number of goals scored from crosses. I suspect that there is probably a pretty low conversion rate but don't have anything to back it up.

I managed to dig up a few stats on crosses, make of them what you will :-k

Twitter / OptaJoe: 57 - The average number of crosses needed per goal scored from a cross in the 2011-12 Premier League. Centre.

According to How efficient is your team at crossing? Premier League Crossing Stats | EPL Index we had the 4th worst crossing accuracy from open play in the league last season with just 17% finding a team mate from 478 attempts. Unsurprisingly the Spammers were top, with 24% from 638, but Swansea were only just behind them with 23% accuracy from 443 crosses.

Premier League teams that have scored the MOST goals from crosses | TalkSport

So far this season there have been 123 goals scored from crosses in the Premier League (correct as of 21/12/12), but which side has scored the most? We asked our friends at Opta to see which club is the most lethal from out wide.

...In number one spot, and the Premier League's most lethal crossing side is Manchester United. Boasting the likes of Ashley Young, Antonio Valencia and Luis Nani in wide positions, the Red Devils have scored 14 times from crosses so far this season.

At that point of last season WBA were 2nd on 11 goals, L'ARSEnal were joint 3rd with Everton on 9 goals, Chavski joint 5th (with Norwich, Spammers and Fulham) on 8 goals, Emirates Marketing Project were joint 9th (with Reading) on 7 goals... we ranked 17th with 3 goals from crosses.

I can't find anything for the whole season though...

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

If we had old-school touchline hugging wingers, who would they cross to?

We don't exactly have Andy Carroll and Kenwyn Jones stood waiting to leap for them. Players cutting in to get up closer to and interchange with Soldado and Eriksen/Holtby, and who keep possession rather than player percentage balls, is exactly what we need.

And there extra pressure on the full back is compensated by the wall of steel that is sat in front of the defence.

Agree to an extent, but I always like that little run Lennon does behind the fullback onto a little straight ball, then to pull it back along the ground.

Granted, it's not out and out wing play but it is kinda going on the outside and using the right foot from the right side.

I think there's a place for that in our team.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

If we had old-school touchline hugging wingers, who would they cross to?

We don't exactly have Andy Carroll and Kenwyn Jones stood waiting to leap for them. Players cutting in to get up closer to and interchange with Soldado and Eriksen/Holtby, and who keep possession rather than player percentage balls, is exactly what we need.

And there extra pressure on the full back is compensated by the wall of steel that is sat in front of the defence.

Soldado? You have mentioned target men. Old school wingers didn't just cross to big lads you know. Lineker thrived on crosses for example.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Inverted wide men isn't anything new. It was being used in the 60's. Formations are often nothing more than fads, and at present it is vogue to have inverted wide men. Give it another few years and it won't be. What it's really about is having the right players for the right system. Almost any of the modern (last 40 years) conventional systems are effective with the right players regardless of what formation they are up against.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Inverted wide men isn't anything new. It was being used in the 60's. Formations are often nothing more than fads, and at present it is vogue to have inverted wide men. Give it another few years and it won't be. What it's really about is having the right players for the right system. Almost any of the modern (last 40 years) conventional systems are effective with the right players regardless of what formation they are up against.

Good point. A pretty good read on the use of inverted wingers over the decades here:

The Question: Why are so many wingers playing on the 'wrong' wings? | Jonathan Wilson | Sport | theguardian.com

 

[parklane1]

We miss lennon.