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Instability

Robbo

Robbo

Paul Walsh
No one does it quite like Spurs, eh? There always seem to be some sort of major, disruptive factor with us - self inflicted or not, for the past 15 years there's always been something other than the football played that has brought people's attention to the club. Coincidentally the only time we achieved CL football, was after two years where there Spurs could concentrate on the football, and no major outside issues we're impacting on the club.

Personally I have no doubt that this (including a lack of long term patience, unfortunate circumstances and number of bad decisions) have contributed to our (relative) on field mediocrity in the 2000s. It feels like this is something very typical Spurs - does anyone else have the same feeling, or do you think other clubs' supporters feel the same...?

A quick timeline of some recent events:

2001: Graham sacked in March. Campbell leaves on a free for Arsenal, after pretending he was staying for a long time.

2002: Relative peace and quiet.

2003: Glenn Hoddle sacked in September. Pleat caretaker.

2004: New manager Santini sacked in November.

2005: Frank Arnesen tapped up by Chelski.

2006: Lasagnagate.

2007: Martin Jol sacked in October.

2008: Manure and Liverpool tapping up Berbatov and Keane, with the former refusing to play. A summer transfer saga, where we ended up with Frazier Campbell on deadline day. Ramos sacked in October.

2009: Relative peace and quiet.

2010: Relative peace and quiet. Champions Leaugue.

2011: The Modric/Chelski love affair. Back and forth all through the summer, with Modric refusing to play for us.

2012: The Redknapp court case, and England speculation, and finally his sacking. Not to mention finally getting fourth place, only for Chelski to deny us CL with their flukey CL win. And another summer of Modric speculation, before he finally took off.

2013: The endless saga and speculation about Bale. Him refusing to play for us. Then finally sold to Real. Then AVB's sacking, with no new manager lined up.

2014: ???
 
IMO, it comes from Levy always striving to make us better. We have, since his arrival, changed from a mid-table side into a pretty established Top 6 team, capable of pushing for Champions League places.

He wants to get us to that next level of consistent Champions League places/title challenge. He took the gamble that AVB was the man, but changed his mind based on the performances so far this season. I don't blame him for that. We might have a season or two where we are set back a bit now (as we did between Jol and Redknapp) but I have no doubt he will make things right again. He is always looking for progress.
 
the dza said:
IMO, it comes from Levy always striving to make us better. We have, since his arrival, changed from a mid-table side into a pretty established Top 6 team, capable of pushing for Champions League places.

He wants to get us to that next level of consistent Champions League places/title challenge. He took the gamble that AVB was the man, but changed his mind based on the performances so far this season. I don't blame him for that. We might have a season or two where we are set back a bit now (as we did between Jol and Redknapp) but I have no doubt he will make things right again. He is always looking for progress.
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I agree that it is Levy's attempts to make us better that motivates his decisions. But we have hit a bit of glass ceiling now. We're are and have been top of the pile of non-CL regular clubs for a last number of years but to take our place at the top table on a semi-permanent basis requires something more.

We do not have a massive finances like some, or an effective result producing system of play running through all levels of the club like others. Unless ENIC sell up and bugger off then we won't be joining the nouveau riche group, so we have to get there by playing better than the sum of our parts. AVB was Levy's first attempt at that and it's over, rightly or wrongly. So we either we accept the situation or try it again with someone else. FDB fits the bill and I think we will be pursuing him like a dog after a bitch in heat this summer. He also has a three initial name which is also very important when it comes to building footballing dynasties ;) Whether we land FDB or not I still see us look for another 'project' type guy over the quick fix type.
 
As I said somewhere else, whoever comes in must be open with the fans in saying we are building something and not to get carried away. AVB had a problem in replacing Redknapp as he was given a weighty target and expected to meet it with a player like Bale. This year the press were still talking us up, mounting more pressure on AVB and the players responded in interviews by talking up our chances. The stability and patience must come now that we have a squad of promising youngsters and no world beater. How this would go down with people like Lloris and Jan I don't know, but then they see what the other players have every day at training, if the talent is there then maybe they will stick with it.
 
the dza said:
IMO, it comes from Levy always striving to make us better. We have, since his arrival, changed from a mid-table side into a pretty established Top 6 team, capable of pushing for Champions League places.
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10 - 12 - 9 - 10 - 14 - 9 - 5 - 5 - 11 - 8 - 4 - 5 - 4 - 5

and that's only league positions, raise in yearly turnover since Levy and Enic took over would be more impressive
 
rosenthal said:
10 - 12 - 9 - 10 - 14 - 9 - 5 - 5 - 11 - 8 - 4 - 5 - 4 - 5

and that's only league positions, raise in yearly turnover since Levy and Enic took over would be more impressive
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To me that looks fairly impressive. Yes there's the "Ramos blip", but I think anyone expecting steady improvement without some blips are having very high expectations in deed.
 
the dza said:
IMO, it comes from Levy always striving to make us better. We have, since his arrival, changed from a mid-table side into a pretty established Top 6 team, capable of pushing for Champions League places.

.
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Yep, my problem is he has sacked AVB and we start again.
 
braineclipse said:
Does hiring a new manager/head coach necessarily mean starting all over again?
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Well lets consider that usally a new manager will do the following, new back room staff in, old backroom staff out, some players out, some players in, new formations both in training and also on the pitch.

So taking that lot into consideration i would say the chances are it would be yes.
 
parklane1 said:
Well lets consider that usally a new manager will do the following, new back room staff in, old backroom staff out, some players out, some players in, new formations both in training and also on the pitch.

So taking that lot into consideration i would say the chances are it would be yes.
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Apart from the new backroom staff I don't see how it sets us back all that much.

We were already integrating players, AVB was still looking for his best team and formation and whatever we were doing wasn't working.

When Redknapp took over for Ramos we saw a pretty quick improvement, obviously we haven't been that poor now, but I don't think our squad has played to its potential. When Jol took over for Santini I remember us struggling for a bit, but then improving quite rapidly.

It might end up taking time, but considering AVB had us in 7th after 16 games, 5 points and goal difference behind 4th it's not like we've gone from a well functioning unit to a new start. We've gone from a team that wasn't really working to something unknown.

Jordinho said:
It would if we were looking for a traditional English manager to bring in a whole new backroom team and a new squad of players.
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Would kinda defeat the entire idea of having a DoF/technical director in place and the continuity that's supposed to bring. I see no reason to think that Baldini or Levy would be looking to bring in a manager that's looking to play a new style of football. Even if the job is given to Sherwood I'm guessing that would be with the understanding that he has to work primarily with the squad we've already got and that Sherwood has some plan to make that happen.
 
braineclipse said:
Would kinda defeat the entire idea of having a DoF/technical director in place and the continuity that's supposed to bring. I see no reason to think that Baldini or Levy would be looking to bring in a manager that's looking to play a new style of football. Even if the job is given to Sherwood I'm guessing that would be with the understanding that he has to work primarily with the squad we've already got and that Sherwood has some plan to make that happen.
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That was kind of my point. We have a setup for finding new players, what's missing right now is someone to coach them.
 
Jordinho said:
That was kind of my point. We have a setup for finding new players, what's missing right now is someone to coach them.
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I Want to see some pictures of my cat?..

I'm just of the opinion that until they show us otherwise I will trust Baldini and Levy to go for a coach that will be looking to get the best out of this squad with marginal changes in personnel and manageable tactical changes.
 
We now have a European DOF set up. Few managers in that set up last more than a couple of seasons. Just look at Spain, when Jose Mourinho left Real after 3 seasons he was the divisions longest serving manager.

Can't say I'm a fan of the DOF system, instability seems to be inevitable.
 
Hully said:
We now have a European DOF set up. Few managers in that set up last more than a couple of seasons. Just look at Spain, when Jose Mourinho left Real after 3 seasons he was the divisions longest serving manager.

Can't say I'm a fan of the DOF system, instability seems to be inevitable.
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Second longest serving manager in the PL is Pardew at just over 3 years. If not for Guardiola wanting a break he would probably still be at Barca and he would have been there considerably longer than that.

Managers like Ferguson and Wenger are getting rare and more outliers withing a traditional English manager system than anything.

Which clubs do you think we can be compared to with a traditional English manager system have seen all of this stability you want? How was our club doing before Levy started hiring directors of football? Where was the stability?
 
Robbo said:
No one does it quite like Spurs, eh? There always seem to be some sort of major, disruptive factor with us - self inflicted or not, for the past 15 years there's always been something other than the football played that has brought people's attention to the club. Coincidentally the only time we achieved CL football, was after two years where there Spurs could concentrate on the football, and no major outside issues we're impacting on the club.

Personally I have no doubt that this (including a lack of long term patience, unfortunate circumstances and number of bad decisions) have contributed to our (relative) on field mediocrity in the 2000s. It feels like this is something very typical Spurs - does anyone else have the same feeling, or do you think other clubs' supporters feel the same...?

A quick timeline of some recent events:

2001: Graham sacked in March. Campbell leaves on a free for Arsenal, after pretending he was staying for a long time.

2002: Relative peace and quiet.

2003: Glenn Hoddle sacked in September. Pleat caretaker.

2004: New manager Santini sacked in November.

2005: Frank Arnesen tapped up by Chelski.

2006: Lasagnagate.

2007: Martin Jol sacked in October.

2008: Manure and Liverpool tapping up Berbatov and Keane, with the former refusing to play. A summer transfer saga, where we ended up with Frazier Campbell on deadline day. Ramos sacked in October.

2009: Relative peace and quiet.

2010: Relative peace and quiet. Champions Leaugue.

2011: The Modric/Chelski love affair. Back and forth all through the summer, with Modric refusing to play for us.

2012: The Redknapp court case, and England speculation, and finally his sacking. Not to mention finally getting fourth place, only for Chelski to deny us CL with their flukey CL win. And another summer of Modric speculation, before he finally took off.

2013: The endless saga and speculation about Bale. Him refusing to play for us. Then finally sold to Real. Then AVB's sacking, with no new manager lined up.

2014: ???
Click to expand...

i see your point if you itemise it like that but i think you'll find this happens to most clubs
 
Mulletperm said:
Ah thank you AS everybody else seems reluctant to address this question and are quick to knock Levy.
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i'm not sure why it would become and elephant in the room. Very rarely you see someone getting paid millions wake up one morning and march up to his director and say.."i quit" losing every last benefit and compensation in that contract

not saying that he wanted to quit but rumour has him as being relieved its all over and it was said that it was mutual consent.

that could be that levy told him the score... he countered...levy suggested parting ways...and he agrees.

thats essentially quitting after a disciplinary meeting in most people's working lives
 
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