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Individual mistakes how can we stop making so many.

Danishfurniturelover

Danishfurniturelover

the prettiest spice girl
One of the legacy's from the Sherwood era for me was so many posters telling me that when we got a proper manager we would stop making so many mistakes.

Now do not get the wrong idea I am a huge supporter of Poch and am happy with the way the club are going.

But I am wondering why our club makes such mistakes all i saw of yesterdays game was the highlights on match of the day. But the way in which we conceded and the body language of the players was disgusting. What do you think are the route causes of it?

I like Poch and want him here for years, but I am of the opinion that we need to get rid of quite a few of the team because of poor attitudes, Poch is a good coach as we saw from his days at Southampton but he has had long enough with these players he should be looking to get rid of a few of them as they are not professional enough in their approach.

Do we need a few more characters in the team in the style of Edgar Davids, why is it we as a club have a soft center and how do we change that?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
One of the legacy's from the Sherwood era for me was so many posters telling me that when we got a proper manager we would stop making so many mistakes.

Now do not get the wrong idea I am a huge supporter of Poch and am happy with the way the club are going.

But I am wondering why our club makes such mistakes all i saw of yesterdays game was the highlights on match of the day. But the way in which we conceded and the body language of the players was disgusting. What do you think are the route causes of it?

I like Poch and want him here for years, but I am of the opinion that we need to get rid of quite a few of the team because of poor attitudes, Poch is a good coach as we saw from his days at Southampton but he has had long enough with these players he should be looking to get rid of a few of them as they are not professional enough in their approach.

Do we need a few more characters in the team in the style of Edgar Davids, why is it we as a club have a soft center and how do we change that?
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Got to love a body language expert ;), I think one of the problems is that we have a lack of leadership on the field and we need a captain who will get in among the players and gee them up. I have never been a fan of Keepers being captains as they are usually not up with the play most of the times.

Mistakes happen all that time and its something that happens when players are either not good enough and low on confidence and I see that from some players every week.
 
buy mentally stronger players

although I'm sure if we could afford them we would

it's like that old adage about buying a car, quick, cheap, reliable, pick two
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
One of the legacy's from the Sherwood era for me was so many posters telling me that when we got a proper manager we would stop making so many mistakes.

Now do not get the wrong idea I am a huge supporter of Poch and am happy with the way the club are going.

But I am wondering why our club makes such mistakes all i saw of yesterdays game was the highlights on match of the day. But the way in which we conceded and the body language of the players was disgusting. What do you think are the route causes of it?

I like Poch and want him here for years, but I am of the opinion that we need to get rid of quite a few of the team because of poor attitudes, Poch is a good coach as we saw from his days at Southampton but he has had long enough with these players he should be looking to get rid of a few of them as they are not professional enough in their approach.

Do we need a few more characters in the team in the style of Edgar Davids, why is it we as a club have a soft center and how do we change that?
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Really? Kaboul, Capoue, Stambouli, Vlad, Holtby, Soldado, Ade, Lennon, how many more do you have to get rid of before we stop blaming the players?

Experience, desire and bite would all help, but Poch has issues there as well, for me Lennon, Holtby & Veljkovic are all players in my opinion that would add more than Lamela as example (in different ways) that Poch refused to see/use.

Poch at Southampton is irrelevant, sometimes things work at a time for a club and manager, doesn't mean they are a good/bad manager.
 
After 23 years following THFC I'm starting to think we could have Ferguson in charge, Messi and Ronaldo supported by Hazard, Suarez and Bale and we'd still finish 5th!!
 
Roy1983 said:
After 23 years following THFC I'm starting to think we could have Ferguson in charge, Messi and Ronaldo supported by Hazard, Suarez and Bale and we'd still finish 5th!!
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:) Very true and some of the fans would still bitch about something.
 
I think the mistakes within the team will happen due to the age of the players. The only way to iron them out is to drill them consistently and work hard on the training pitch.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I think the mistakes within the team will happen due to the age of the players. The only way to iron them out is to drill them consistently and work hard on the training pitch.
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Indeed, young players make mistakes and they all do, Its going to take time for our young side to grow into a good team and fans need to be a little more patient.
 
The system relies on players taking risks: the deep-lying playmaker must be direct with his passing, the players must move into offensive positions ready to receive long, direct passes in to feet or into space, and the players must press aggressively when not in position, leaving gaps behind them that they hope won't be exploited. A playing style that relies on attacking via vertical, direct passes and ceaselessly harrying the opposition will definitely carry more risks than a Mourinho-esque deep, stand-off-ish playing style.

Now, those risks can be mitigated to an extent by having a) the right players to fill the positions that are most crucial to the system, and b) experienced heads in those key positions that know when to take a risk and when to play it safe, when to calm the team down and when to fire them up, and when to push for goals and when to tire out the opposition by playing semi-risky passes that then turn into recycled positions (i.e, sending a ball to the striker in a forward position, who then draws players into him before returning it to the DM, who then sends a safe pass back to the CB to restart the process: tiring out the opposition as it progresses).

We have a dangerously young side, with little experience when it comes to determining which risks to take and when. And to top it off, we're bearing with injuries to some of our top performers last season (Eriksen against Leicester and Rose for the whole season so far, but also Lloris until the Stoke game), and we have one striker who's knackered, a CB stuffed awkwardly in at DM and two CBs still getting used to playing with each other after a while spent apart, with both the aforementioned hastily-converted DM and the striker both again very young.

Is it any wonder, then, that our team continually commits unforced errors and falls prey to gambles that don't work out? We need experience in key positions that go together (an experienced DM to guide the one next to him, an experienced player in he front four to organize things around him, etcetera), and we need more players, damnit: a specialist DM at the very least, with a capable back-up/alternative to Kane not far behind on the list of priorities.

We have waited until the 23rd of August, without bringing in these players. And we have dropped seven points as a result, with numerous unforced errors littered along the way. Given the former reality, a relatively risky system like ours is bound to lead to many more unforced errors as our deliberately self-destructive penny-pinching goes on until deadline day. Perhaps, with 34 games to go, our season can really kick off after that day passes. Until then (i.e, against Everton), I'm not expecting much, nor am I laying the blame at the feet of our youngsters, shorn as they are of the specialist colleagues they need in key positions and the experience they need around them to help see them through key moments in games.
 
DubaiSpur said:
The system relies on players taking risks: the deep-lying playmaker must be direct with his passing, the players must move into offensive positions ready to receive long, direct passes in to feet or into space, and the players must press aggressively when not in position, leaving gaps behind them that they hope won't be exploited. A playing style that relies on attacking via vertical, direct passes and ceaselessly harrying the opposition will definitely carry more risks than a Mourinho-esque deep, stand-off-ish playing style.

Now, those risks can be mitigated to an extent by having a) the right players to fill the positions that are most crucial to the system, and b) experienced heads in those key positions that know when to take a risk and when to play it safe, when to calm the team down and when to fire them up, and when to push for goals and when to tire out the opposition by playing semi-risky passes that then turn into recycled positions (i.e, sending a ball to the striker in a forward position, who then draws players into him before returning it to the DM, who then sends a safe pass back to the CB to restart the process: tiring out the opposition as it progresses).

We have a dangerously young side, with little experience when it comes to determining which risks to take and when. And to top it off, we're bearing with injuries to some of our top performers last season (Eriksen against Leicester and Rose for the whole season so far, but also Lloris until the Stoke game), and we have one striker who's knackered, a CB stuffed awkwardly in at DM and two CBs still getting used to playing with each other after a while spent apart, with both the aforementioned hastily-converted DM and the striker both again very young.

Is it any wonder, then, that our team continually commits unforced errors and falls prey to gambles that don't work out? We need experience in key positions that go together (an experienced DM to guide the one next to him, an experienced player in he front four to organize things around him, etcetera), and we need more players, damnit: a specialist DM at the very least, with a capable back-up/alternative to Kane not far behind on the list of priorities.

We have waited until the 23rd of August, without bringing in these players. And we have dropped seven points as a result, with numerous unforced errors littered along the way. Given the former reality, a relatively risky system like ours is bound to lead to many more unforced errors as our deliberately self-destructive penny-pinching goes on until deadline day. Perhaps, with 34 games to go, our season can really kick off after that day passes. Until then (i.e, against Everton), I'm not expecting much, nor am I laying the blame at the feet of our youngsters, shorn as they are of the specialist colleagues they need in key positions and the experience they need around them to help see them through key moments in games.
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I agree with that. Also should be noted that Mourinho plays 4-2-3-1 and it is the formation that allows the greatest flexibility.........http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/07/21/a-guide-to-formations-the-4-2-3-1/

Now, Dubai you know I am going to disagree with you on the penny-pinching point but other than that I agree with you. :p It doesn't matter what system we play, if the personnel make mistakes it's stuffed....
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I agree with that. Also should be noted that Mourinho plays 4-2-3-1 and it is the formation that allows the greatest flexibility.........http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/07/21/a-guide-to-formations-the-4-2-3-1/

Now, Dubai you know I am going to disagree with you on the penny-pinching point but other than that I agree with you. :p It doesn't matter what system we play, if the personnel make mistakes it's stuffed....
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Fellow OOTB fan, I see. :) Yeah, I agree, the 4-2-3-1 seems ideally suited to flexibility, and I'm somewhat pleased that a manager like Poch (who isn't known for being radically flexible with his tactics) has gone with that formation as a base to build from: IMO, it compensates for some of the tactical rigidity that inevitably comes with a 'system' manager like Poch or Bielsa.

I expected that you'd disagree with the penny-pinching bit: I hope you're aware by now that I respect that opinion, even if I disagree with it myself. :p But yes, it is the players making mistakes in an inherently risky system, amplified by their youth and inexperience. It isn't really fair to blame them for it, or to blame Poch/the system: it happens. It can be mitigated, as I mentioned above...but we don't seem particularly fussed about doing that at the moment.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Fellow OOTB fan, I see. :) Yeah, I agree, the 4-2-3-1 seems ideally suited to flexibility, and I'm somewhat pleased that a manager like Poch (who isn't known for being radically flexible with his tactics) has gone with that formation as a base to build from: IMO, it compensates for some of the tactical rigidity that inevitably comes with a 'system' manager like Poch or Bielsa.

I expected that you'd disagree with the penny-pinching bit: I hope you're aware by now that I respect that opinion, even if I disagree with it myself. :p But yes, it is the players making mistakes in an inherently risky system, amplified by their youth and inexperience. It isn't really fair to blame them for it, or to blame Poch/the system: it happens. It can be mitigated, as I mentioned above...but we don't seem particularly fussed about doing that at the moment.
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Likewise buddy.
 
I'd love to know what they get up to in training, Roy, care to share any ITK?

Having said that, you just cannot legislate for some of the fudge ups that we continue to make on an almost weekly basis. The most simple answer is to buy better players but I can't see that happening until the stadium is rebuilt. Unless we scout better of course.
 
I am less worried when I see the younger players make mistakes - it is part of their learning. What is worrying is senior players' errors e.g. Jan Vert's errors ..
 
There are two types of players who make mistakes;

1) Young Players
2) brick players

The problem is that we don't currently know if some of our players are disguised as young players when they are actually just brick players who happen to be young. Only time will tell.
 
86% of all EPL goals come from individual mistakes

14% come from individual or team brilliance


We just notice ours more than other teams'

It's a consequence of the defensive phase the game is going through at the moment. Teams are given no room to create, so goals tend to be 'forced'
 
Gutter Boy said:
86% of all EPL goals come from individual mistakes

14% come from individual or team brilliance


We just notice ours more than other teams'

It's a consequence of the defensive phase the game is going through at the moment. Teams are given no room to create, so goals tend to be 'forced'
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You could argue that if you look hard enough absolutely every goal ever scored comes from some kind of mistake. But lets not get into that!
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
You could argue that if you look hard enough absolutely every goal ever scored comes from some kind of mistake. But lets not get into that!
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If nobody made a mistake, football would be quite boring.

The monumental brainfarts, like passing straight to an opposition player or giving away stupid pens in the corner of the 18 yard box, should be avoided though.
 
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