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Females at football

Bedfordspurs

Bedfordspurs

Vinnie Samways
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-v-brentford-while-a-dad-and-his-sons-laughed

In just saw this article and was shocked tbh
Not with what happened her but because no one helped

Quite scary really

I recently interrupted a guy who was harrasing a lady at Farringdon and he told ne it was none of my business, but it stopped him carry on.

With the world as fudged as it is we need to look out for each other more than normal it seems
 
F**king hell. Sadly, I'm shocked but not shocked.

Hard to know what to say without sounding like I'm virtue signalling. Fact is, there is a lot of sexism around football that doesn't necessarily always manifest itself in this way but helps feed into it.
 
there is a lot of sexism around football that doesn't necessarily always manifest itself in this way but helps feed into it.

Not sure I agree with the last bit. I believe that the women's game is less attractive and I hate hearing some female commentators. Clearly I'm sexist.
But I wouldn't dream of insulting a woman like that, still less touching her. In the same way I don't believe that all cultures and cultural practices are equal. So in some people's eyes I'm a racist. But I again I would never insult someone on the basis of the colour of their skin.
The thug that did this should be found and banned.

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I doubt there is a single woman who has travelled on London tubes in rush hour with some regularity who hasn’t experienced the horrible sense of someone being just a bit too close or pressing/pushing just a bit too much.
Of course in most cases it’s totally innocent and nothing more than the natural crush of overcrowded trains. But it is certainly an uncomfortable experience in those instances where you can’t say anything because it may be innocent but at the same time you kind of know it isn’t. Sharp elbows being the substitute action.

But thankfully I have never, ever experienced anything as described in that article and shame on anyone nearby who didn’t say a word.

From a football perspective I don’t think I have ever personally experienced any sexist language or behaviour, at least not directed at me specifically. Of course back in the day there was the common refrain requesting WPCs in the ground, for example, to reveal certain aspects of their anatomy for the lads. And as a female I would say yes, that did make me feel uncomfortable. One moment you are part of the crowd singing for and supporting your team and then you feel set apart and no longer included - and even a bit embarrassed/awkward.
Of course that chant doesn’t really get heard these days, thankfully.

And I have to say nowadays I generally get treated with politeness but I know that isn’t always the case for other women fans.
It may however have something to do with me being closer to 60 than any younger age that might attract unsolicited attention 😀
 
I read that article yesterday and, as the father of two young women in their 20s who like to attend our games, it made me feel sick. It was brave of Eve de Haan to write it.

Any TFL employee who did nothing more than shrug when they were told what had happened should be sacked for a failure to implement very basic safeguarding protocols.
 
lurker of old said:
there is a lot of sexism around football that doesn't necessarily always manifest itself in this way but helps feed into it.

Not sure I agree with the last bit. I believe that the women's game is less attractive and I hate hearing some female commentators. Clearly I'm sexist.
But I wouldn't dream of insulting a woman like that, still less touching her. In the same way I don't believe that all cultures and cultural practices are equal. So in some people's eyes I'm a racist. But I again I would never insult someone on the basis of the colour of their skin.
The thug that did this should be found and banned.

Like Quote
Click to expand...

If you mean banned from leaving a penal institution for a period of time determined by a judge I'm absolutely with you 100% - Not being allowed to go and watch your favorite team in person doesn't really seem a reasonable punishment for sexual assault now does it?

As for you being "sexist" for not wanting to watch women's football, which part of the article made you think "Ah perfect, a thread about a harrowing experience too many people have had to go through, now is my chance to belittle the notion of sexism via an un-ironic Alan Partridge impression, this is the time and the place."
 
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Mikey10 said:
I read that article yesterday and, as the father of two young women in their 20s who like to attend our games, it made me feel sick. It was brave of Eve de Haan to write it.

Any TFL employee who did nothing more than shrug when they were told what had happened should be sacked for a failure to implement very basic safeguarding protocols.
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That’s the bit I didn’t get
There are signs now on the under ground highlighting what can be classed as harassment and it’s also how you look at someone. Yet this was ignored
 
Glenda's Legs said:
:(I doubt there is a single woman who has travelled on London tubes in rush hour with some regularity who hasn’t experienced the horrible sense of someone being just a bit too close or pressing/pushing just a bit too much.
Of course in most cases it’s totally innocent and nothing more than the natural crush of overcrowded trains. But it is certainly an uncomfortable experience in those instances where you can’t say anything because it may be innocent but at the same time you kind of know it isn’t. Sharp elbows being the substitute action.

But thankfully I have never, ever experienced anything as described in that article and shame on anyone nearby who didn’t say a word.

From a football perspective I don’t think I have ever personally experienced any sexist language or behaviour, at least not directed at me specifically. Of course back in the day there was the common refrain requesting WPCs in the ground, for example, to reveal certain aspects of their anatomy for the lads. And as a female I would say yes, that did make me feel uncomfortable. One moment you are part of the crowd singing for and supporting your team and then you feel set apart and no longer included - and even a bit embarrassed/awkward.
Of course that chant doesn’t really get heard these days, thankfully.

And I have to say nowadays I generally get treated with politeness but I know that isn’t always the case for other women fans.
It may however have something to do with me being closer to 60 than any younger age that might attract unsolicited attention 😀
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Well you travel to a lot of places to watch the club so your opinion is arguably more qualified than most
There is a girl/lady/woman behind me in the ground who I think so with her dad. No one noticed her sex just her support which is how it should be
I think the new ground has seen more females come and that can I ku be a good thing
In trying to get my daughter into football but she just likes the kits… not the game (thank GHod for Thai kits)
The underground comment you raise is always something I’m wary of. I deliberately didn’t hold a handrail on the Elizabeth line once because the only way I could do it was by basically being in the back of a young lady (I always wanna say girl)… the train stopped abruptly for some reason and I went headfirst into another lady instead… what a taco
 
On a more general note, if you do see (or experience) any inappropriate or threatening behaviour when on public transport - not just the sexual harrassment described here, but anything, you can text the British Transport Police on 61016 (assuming there's a signal of course) and let them know what's happening and where. It's not always going to be safe to intervene or some people will just not be comfortable doing that.
Save that number in your phone, just in case.
Not having had to use it, I have no idea how quickly they would respond.
 
lurker of old said:
there is a lot of sexism around football that doesn't necessarily always manifest itself in this way but helps feed into it.

Not sure I agree with the last bit. I believe that the women's game is less attractive and I hate hearing some female commentators. Clearly I'm sexist.
But I wouldn't dream of insulting a woman like that, still less touching her. In the same way I don't believe that all cultures and cultural practices are equal. So in some people's eyes I'm a racist. But I again I would never insult someone on the basis of the colour of their skin.
The thug that did this should be found and banned.

Like Quote
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Your just being human and also being honest
I don’t like some women commentators, I also don’t like some men ones too. That’s normal, right
That’s not being sexist unless it’s because they are a man or a women rather than just crap
For me, the game has come a long way relatively quickly, because it had too
The game is massively diverse around cultures and colours, but again it has ti be
There is always more and people who recognise we can and should do more and imo on the right side of the future
 
lurker of old said:
there is a lot of sexism around football that doesn't necessarily always manifest itself in this way but helps feed into it.

Not sure I agree with the last bit. I believe that the women's game is less attractive and I hate hearing some female commentators. Clearly I'm sexist.
But I wouldn't dream of insulting a woman like that, still less touching her. In the same way I don't believe that all cultures and cultural practices are equal. So in some people's eyes I'm a racist. But I again I would never insult someone on the basis of the colour of their skin.
The thug that did this should be found and banned.

Like Quote
Click to expand...
In my view, and this will probably be a bit controversial, I hear a lot of people say “why are women commenting on the men’s game? They should stick to their own game.” I hear it in real life, I read it a lot.

That to me is the sort of attitude that suggests the game should be exclusively male. It’s not as bad as what that woman experienced but it’s still feeding into a sense that women aren’t welcome.

Some female pundits are poor, some are good. Same and the blokes. Dismissing all women pundits is just sexist in my view.
 
DeanoAustin said:
In my view, and this will probably be a bit controversial, I hear a lot of people say “why are women commenting on the men’s game? They should stick to their own game.” I hear it in real life, I read it a lot.

That to me is the sort of attitude that suggests the game should be exclusively male. It’s not as bad as what that woman experienced but it’s still feeding into a sense that women aren’t welcome.

Some female pundits are poor, some are good. Same and the blokes. Dismissing all women pundits is just sexist in my view.
Click to expand...

I don’t think that is controversial at all, I agree.
 
"now is my chance to belittle the notion of sexism via an un-ironic Alan Partridge impression, this is the time and the place."
Some people do like to pile in, don't they?
I was trying to say there is a clear difference between what people may think privately, about issues such as gender and race, and HOW THEY SHOULD ACT in public. One of the issues of contemporary life is that some folk blur the difference between what is appropriate in private and in the public realm.
For what it's worth I like the fact that WHL has what looks to me like an increasing range of ethnicities, all supporting our beloved Club. There is a real sense of inclusion - the only thing that excludes anyone is affordability.
As for female commentators, there is one in particular whose high-pitched voice sounds to me like that of a 12 year old boy, and I hate listening to her on the radio. But then I dislike Robbie Savage's voice.

As someone else said, the incident involving Eve de Haan was much more than just sexism and I would like to think that Brentford could identify the culprit - the article reads as if the man had 2 junior tickets as well, and there can't be many such people among their away fans.
 
lurker of old said:
"now is my chance to belittle the notion of sexism via an un-ironic Alan Partridge impression, this is the time and the place."
Some people do like to pile in, don't they?
I was trying to say there is a clear difference between what people may think privately, about issues such as gender and race, and HOW THEY SHOULD ACT in public. One of the issues of contemporary life is that some folk blur the difference between what is appropriate in private and in the public realm.
For what it's worth I like the fact that WHL has what looks to me like an increasing range of ethnicities, all supporting our beloved Club. There is a real sense of inclusion - the only thing that excludes anyone is affordability.
As for female commentators, there is one in particular whose high-pitched voice sounds to me like that of a 12 year old boy, and I hate listening to her on the radio. But then I dislike Robbie Savage's voice.

As someone else said, the incident involving Eve de Haan was much more than just sexism and I would like to think that Brentford could identify the culprit - the article reads as if the man had 2 junior tickets as well, and there can't be many such people among their away fans.
Click to expand...

It's more of a police matter than anything to do with Brentford or any football club - Being banned from standing near a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around is an irrelevance, that "punishment" is beyond trivial, if it wasn't clear from my response it's a matter of jail time if someone is identified.

I'll attempt an analogy of why what you said (typed) just seemed a bit off to me. Let's say there's a thread with an article of an assault on someone that happened because they were an ethnic minority. If I waded in and said "Well I'm obviously racist because I don't watch The Fresh Prince of Bel Air etc etc.....", it's making out that calling someone racist is just this silly word that gets thrown around so making the labelling of something as racist out to be a bigger problem than actual racism. Like all analogies it doesn't transfer perfectly but I hope that you give it a true shot at understanding it what I am getting at.

I'm not sure I fully get your gist on thinking one thing privately and acting differently or how that relates to your initial response. As for your self exploration on not liking some female commentators, if it's not born out of sexism then you have nothing to worry about, I'm not an admin or the grand master of discourse but it just feels like an odd thing to bring up - That is of course just my opinion, and it's not an accusation.

It's just a bit of thought in to your wording, even the "more than just sexism" at the end of your post..... It's a pretty big part of it isn't it? And again, it's seemingly belittling sexism to be just some minor annoyance as opposed to a major problem. No doubt some will say I'm jumping at the chance to be offended, I'm more just after people being a bit more thoughtful in these threads. If that makes me the bad guy then ok I guess?

This isn't at you but in general I find it a bit distasteful when you get straight folks deciding that something isn't homophobic, males deciding that something isn't misogynistic, Caucasians (in a predominantly white society) deciding what isn't racist. Sometimes it's better to listen to those who are genuinely affected, of course everyone should and is able to contribute to a discussion but if the input is seemingly minimizing a problem that doesn't affect you it just seems off. Apologies for the tangent in this thread. Also you still aren't quoting posts correctly and it's perplexing but that's a whole other tangent!!!
 
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