Fatigue

[SUIYHA]

For me, this biggest reason as to why things are going wrong. Forget about the England speculation. A few poor tactical decisions can explain the odd bad result here and there but not a run of form as bad as this one considering how well we were doing before.

No, the reason we are playing so badly right now is because of a lack of squad rotation in the early part of the season. Harry always picked his strongest available XI and usually left the likes of Modric, Bale, Parker and Adebayor on for 90 minutes. Players can't stay in form for an entire season, you just can't. Your level of fitness has peaks and dips over time. The reason that we were so successful in the 09/10 season was because different players peaked at different points of the season, meaning we always had somebody that was in form and stayed consistent. Whereas now? Everybody peaked earlier in the season and we tinkled on practically everybody, but now everyone has run out of steam and nobody is in form.

It's the same reason we had a slump from about late February onwards last year too, and the reason that we didn't have a dip in form in the 09/10 season. Because in that year, we started playing players like Bale, Modric, Bentley and Pavlyuchenko in the second half of the season when they hadn't been used much in the first half for one reason or another. The problem now is that we don't really have anyone else that we can bring in, as all of our other squad players are either out on loan or aren't good enough. And one of the few players Harry has available to him that has spent some time out injured and is fresher than everyone else, Lennon, he left on the bench today!

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

fatigue i think he is on loan at southampton


joking aside yes that is one of the reason we have had a bad spell i think harry has not had the guts to rest players and try and keep them fresh, this is one thing ferguson does very well hopefully the new guy can learn from it.

That said look at the likes of lampard at chelsea and see how many games he has played this season, if we do get champs league football then we will need our players to play a lot of games at a high level.

 

[charlietheyid]

I totally agree. Its been a very long season. I also think the defoe miss at City was a turning point in the season. We've never recovered.

- Modric problems at the start of the season
- Bad start to the season against United and City, first crisis
- Good run, people start talking about the title didnt help
- THAT game at City that changed our season
- Redknapp tax problems
- Redknapp england jobs problems
- Bad run


I think its been a very long season and the player are mentally tired. Im not trying to find excuses, some things are not done the right way either. I also think referee decisions have not helped us mentally.

Its probably also been a very long season for Redknapp.. He probably needs a rest actually

 

[yiddo2786]

Modric has played the full 90 minutes in all of our last 22 league games.

 

[indianspur]

barely any of our top players played in europe, non played in the Carling cup, theyve just had the Prem games to deal with, plus the FA cup and even there we were able to rotate because of easy draws

tiredness doesnt even come into it

 

[P.D.]

I also think Harry is too old school, for instance I'd love to know about our nutrition, diet and fitness coaches and whether they put seperate plans in place for each player. I mean VDV is gassed on the hour most games, is that lack of stamina generally? Or is there something more underlying maybe some nutritional deficiencies within his system that we havent looked at which dont help with the tiredness.

 

[charlietheyid]

When you look at Parker and Van der Vaart, there must be an issue with fitness/fatigue.

Players are always tired physically when they are mentally anyway.

 

[indianspur]

look, the players are mentally fcuked because of a lack of training/tactical knowledge, Redknapp wanting to manage England and not them, and the 2-5 at the scum

 

[Howard Webb]

I think its the root cause of all our problems.

Mental and physical fitness are related and once we got beat by city that was it.

 

[indianspur]

every team is fatigued at the end of a season, its no excuse

 

[suffolkspur]

I think this may be a small factor of many that has contributed to this pathetic end to the season. Redknapp has not rotated the first 11 much unless forced to due to injuries to players. This has led to some squad players losing match fitness/confidence. When they have been called upon they have looked unfit/lethargic. The rest have been loaned out. Those players that are the chosen ones have played every minute of every game knowing they will not be dropped unless they are injured.

On the flip side they havent really been involved in any more games than usual. Especially as we didnt take the Europa League seriously. Maybe fitness coaching is a problem. Either way i dont think we can use fatigue as THE reason why we've been crap. As i say, its a number of things many of which in my opinion could have been overcome with some planning.

 

[Modric THFC]

The rotation issue is a myth started by some guy adding up the amount of minutes played in Premier League game only and ignoring other games as if they don't count. Redknapp has rotated our first team players out so that they only play Premier League games.

These are total minutes played in all competitions by the 11 Spurs players with most minutes.

Walker 3708
Assou-Ekotto 3456
Bale 3314
Kaboul 3188
Modric 3187
Friedel 3060
Parker 2894
Adebayor 2780
van der Vaart 2457
Defoe 2187
King 1968
Total 32199

Total minutes played in all competitions by the 11 United players with most minutes. Ferguson has a reputation for rotation.

Evra 3845
Rooney 3383
de Gea 3240t
Evans 3104
Carrick 3094
Ferdinand 2942
Valencia 2793
Nani 2761
Jones 2719
Welbeck 2413
Young 2069
Total 32363

Difference is only 164 minutes. That's 14.9 minutes per player.
Stats from http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/manchester-united/leistungsdaten/verein_985.html and http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/leistungsdaten/verein_148.html

 

[P.D.]

Its about when you play them as well though, Fergie quite often puts people on the bench for a couple of games maybe giving them half hour then he'll bring them back into the starting line up. I guarantee they have proper nutritionists etc at the club and analyse people far more than we do.

 

[diego_maradona]

Nobody is tired or injured when your winning.

 

[punk_is_back`]

Its about when you play them as well though, Fergie quite often puts people on the bench for a couple of games maybe giving them half hour then he'll bring them back into the starting line up. I guarantee they have proper nutritionists etc at the club and analyse people far more than we do.

I can't even remember us actually having a fitness coach or a nutritionist. For all Ramos' faults we actually had dedicated staff members to do this. No doubt we are serving, chips egg and beans in the canteen or the option of Pie and Mash with liquor.

 

[1882]

I also think Harry is too old school, for instance I'd love to know about our nutrition, diet and fitness coaches and whether they put seperate plans in place for each player. I mean VDV is gassed on the hour most games, is that lack of stamina generally? Or is there something more underlying maybe some nutritional deficiencies within his system that we havent looked at which dont help with the tiredness.

Well if 'Arry's got any say in it, it'll be a "Cuppa tea an' a bacon saaaaaandwich"

It won us "Two Weld Wars" so whass the problem...? triffic!

He's SUCH a clich?®d c o c k n e y c u n t!

 

[Gutter Boy]

Parker is the only player who can use this as an excuse really (his age and having an injury free season).

Obviously only having 3 CMs all season due to Huddlestone injury could be blamed, but then Sandro has been under used (as have Krancjar, Corluka and Pienaar).

 

[Rorschach]

Part of Ferguson's rotation policy is to do with giving his entire first team squad game time. Sure he's resting players, but he is in effect letting all the players know that they are valuable team members and not just backups to be called on as a last resort. It's good man management.

I also think Fergie is not afraid to drop a player who is not in form, irrespective of who they are. If you are guaranteed your spot no matter how bad you're playing it will do little to motivate you to try harder. Fairly obvious isn't it.

 

[SUIYHA]

The rotation issue is a myth started by some guy adding up the amount of minutes played in Premier League game only and ignoring other games as if they don't count. Redknapp has rotated our first team players out so that they only play Premier League games.

These are total minutes played in all competitions by the 11 Spurs players with most minutes.

Walker 3708
Assou-Ekotto 3456
Bale 3314
Kaboul 3188
Modric 3187
Friedel 3060
Parker 2894
Adebayor 2780
van der Vaart 2457
Defoe 2187
King 1968
Total 32199

Total minutes played in all competitions by the 11 United players with most minutes. Ferguson has a reputation for rotation.

Evra 3845
Rooney 3383
de Gea 3240t
Evans 3104
Carrick 3094
Ferdinand 2942
Valencia 2793
Nani 2761
Jones 2719
Welbeck 2413
Young 2069
Total 32363

Difference is only 164 minutes. That's 14.9 minutes per player.
Stats from http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/manchester-united/leistungsdaten/verein_985.html and http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/leistungsdaten/verein_148.html

I don't think that tells the full story though. A player will reach his optimum fitness level (assuming he isn't getting injured) at some point or another over the season, and it will eventually fall again. The key to managing the peaks and dips is by ensuring that when a player is on a dip, you have sufficient other players on a peak to compensate for him. That and by having players who when they're on their dip are still half-decent. Take Rooney for example. Something like 9 goals in the first 5 games of the season. He's been on a goalscoring run of about a goal per game for the last 3 months. But in the middle there was a dip. It was carefully managed that he'd start the season well, let other players step up while the mood around the place was confident after a good start, then have the star man peak again at the business end of the season.

A player can deal with playing Wednesday-Saturday-Wednesday as long as you give them time to recover from it later. If you tell one of your players "you're going to be rested this weekend", then naturally they will relax a little. They won't push themselves so hard in training. With our squad, it's been the case of "if you're fit, work as hard as you can". As soon as the game on Saturday was finished, even if they knew they wouldn't play in mid-week, they'd still start thinking about the next weekend's game straight afterwards. What this meant was that everybody worked hard to get to their peak at the same time, but then they all dipped at the same time. The two first team regulars that we have who haven't had as much football as everyone else support the theory in different ways. Lennon has spent time out injured, but is now perhaps the only player in our squad still looking fresh and lively. Defoe on the other hand I think has been trying so hard in training to try and impress Harry and force his way into the starting lineup, that he's looking a bit burnt out too.

That, and that in recent weeks Ferguson has also brought Scholes and Rafael into his starting lineup, who were not knackered from the early part of the season. Rafael has made some defensive errors, but Scholes has been awesome for them. We don't have anyone else we can bring in like this. Well...I don't see Harry dropping Assou-Ekotto for Rose.

 

[VolSpur]

The rotation issue is a myth started by some guy adding up the amount of minutes played in Premier League game only and ignoring other games as if they don't count. Redknapp has rotated our first team players out so that they only play Premier League games.

These are total minutes played in all competitions by the 11 Spurs players with most minutes.

Walker 3708
Assou-Ekotto 3456
Bale 3314
Kaboul 3188
Modric 3187
Friedel 3060
Parker 2894
Adebayor 2780
van der Vaart 2457
Defoe 2187
King 1968
Total 32199

Total minutes played in all competitions by the 11 United players with most minutes. Ferguson has a reputation for rotation.

Evra 3845
Rooney 3383
de Gea 3240t
Evans 3104
Carrick 3094
Ferdinand 2942
Valencia 2793
Nani 2761
Jones 2719
Welbeck 2413
Young 2069
Total 32363

Difference is only 164 minutes. That's 14.9 minutes per player.
Stats from http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/manchester-united/leistungsdaten/verein_985.html and http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/leistungsdaten/verein_148.html

thanks for this.

for me this is just a crutch for the weak to cling to.

we have the talent in our side to finish top 3. bottom line. we just have to go out there and do it. no excuses.