Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Glenda's Legs]

The club (sorry I should say company) yesterday announced it was making a payment of £1m to the NHS and £6.25m to the EFL as part of the the Premier League payments.

They can't cry poverty and do this.

The company furloughed 200 staff. Assuming they are all full time hours on the living wage it would cost the company 326k a month to pay them 400%.

The payments they have now been forced to make to generate good PR are millions more than they are saving furloughing their lowest paid staff.

I thought those payments were coming from the Premier League, not the individual clubs i.e. from funds the PL already have stored up rather than clubs making specific extra payments now? But I might have misinterpreted the statement or missed something from the club.

(My position is that I have no issue with the club using the furlough scheme - it is what it is there for - but would like them to make up the 20% if possible. Hopefully if players accept a wage cut we will be able to do that).

 

[Jurgen the German]

i wonder if some of their fans will be foaming at the mouth like a few of ours on here were when we did it.

Not just our own fans that are being critical of the club though is it. We’ve been universally panned as much as some of our fans won’t like to hear that.

I don’t think we should have done it personally. I understand why they did it, but I don’t agree with it. I really don’t understand why some on here don’t like it when anyone either on here internally or externally is critical of the hierarchy, Levy in particular. He is a brilliant chairman but he is not infallible. We could all just blindly agree with everything he does or says if that would make things more palatable but he is no different to the manager or any THFC player when he does good things he should be praised. When people disagree with something they should be free to question it without people jumping down their throats accusing them of being Levy or ENIC haters.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Not just our own fans that are being critical of the club though is it. We’ve been universally panned as much as some of our fans won’t like to hear that.

I don’t think we should have done it personally. I understand why they did it, but I don’t agree with it. I really don’t understand why some on here don’t like it when anyone either on here internally or externally is critical of the hierarchy, Levy in particular. He is a brilliant chairman but he is not infallible. We could all just blindly agree with everything he does or says if that would make things more palatable but he is no different to the manager or any THFC player when he does good things he should be praised. When people disagree with something they should be free to question it without people jumping down their throats accusing them of being Levy or ENIC haters.

I think that’s fair enough. I’m not sure I 100% agree with it either for the reasons @Glenda's Legs outlines above.

The issue I have is with some of the simplistic arguments I’ve seen online. Not necessarily here but a lot of people are criticising clubs because “they are billion pound companies with loads of cash.” That isn’t true. Most clubs don’t have hundreds of millions of pounds sitting around, still have financial commitments they can’t get out of and have no revenue coming in. In that situation, they have to do something to protect themselves.

Some people seem to think this is Levy, Ashley and Warner just throwing more money on their massive cash pile to be cartoonishly evil.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think one of our biggest struggles has always been how we are versus public perception. Because Levy is decidedly NOT the warm and fuzzy type, people immediately think the worst (I have been guilty too!). He is as I hear it a really decent person who strives to do the right thing, but he is a hardline businessman who often makes ALL decisions based SOLELY in business sense. That comes with complications. I would expect the team immediately around him to guide him through certain waters better.

I still believe he should've led from the front and established a fund of sorts, but so be it, he didn't, and I don't believe he carries an ounce of malice or greed in any of these decisions.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

So Levy said before we’d broke ground.... however 4 consecutive years of CL and still ending up with £657 million of debt probably says otherwise....

I think it’s pretty obvious the stadium went a huge amount over the original intended budget.

If this happened this time last year, with the stadium unfinished and debt restructuring still to come, I'd be a whole lot more worried. The complications could be endless.

I suppose there is potential for cash flow problems now but if things can get back to normalish the taps can turn back on. And we are in potentially a better position than most clubs.

 

[parklane1]

Not just our own fans that are being critical of the club though is it. We’ve been universally panned as much as some of our fans won’t like to hear that.
.

To be real honest i could not give a brick if other clubs fans are critical or not.

 

[Jurgen the German]

To be real honest i could not give a brick if other clubs fans are critical or not.

Me neither but it is not just within the football world where the criticism is coming from. Plenty outside the world of football have been vocal in showing disdain for actions we’ve taken this week. I’ll admit some are arguably using it as a stick to beat football with but the criticism is not unreasonable in my opinion. Granted we are not the only club to do it but we are also the most high profile club along with Liverpool to furlough it’s non-playing staff. Scrutiny comes with our stature, that’s just the way it is.

 

[parklane1]

Me neither but it is not just within the football world where the criticism is coming from. Plenty outside the world of football have been vocal in showing disdain for actions we’ve taken this week. I’ll admit some are arguably using it as a stick to beat football with but the criticism is not unreasonable in my opinion. Granted we are not the only club to do it but we are also the most high profile club along with Liverpool to furlough it’s non-playing staff. Scrutiny comes with our stature, that’s just the way it is.

As i say i really do not care what other may say about us, in fact i very rarely read the papers. My gripe is not even those of our supporters who disagree with the decision taken, Its the ones who get overboard with their rants about " they used to be a football club over there" and all the other rants, and they have been a couple on here. IMO

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think one of our biggest struggles has always been how we are versus public perception. Because Levy is decidedly NOT the warm and fuzzy type, people immediately think the worst (I have been guilty too!). He is as I hear it a really decent person who strives to do the right thing, but he is a hardline businessman who often makes ALL decisions based SOLELY in business sense. That comes with complications. I would expect the team immediately around him to guide him through certain waters better.

I still believe he should've led from the front and established a fund of sorts, but so be it, he didn't, and I don't believe he carries an ounce of malice or greed in any of these decisions.

How would he fund that fund though?
The guy is asset rich with his share of the club but he ain’t gonna have more than £5m in the bank at a guess whic sounds a lot to you and I but it’s really not

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Me neither but it is not just within the football world where the criticism is coming from. Plenty outside the world of football have been vocal in showing disdain for actions we’ve taken this week. I’ll admit some are arguably using it as a stick to beat football with but the criticism is not unreasonable in my opinion. Granted we are not the only club to do it but we are also the most high profile club along with Liverpool to furlough it’s non-playing staff. Scrutiny comes with our stature, that’s just the way it is.

Liverpool fans are even trying to say the club are paying their staff the full amount but using the word Furlough because they would never be as bad as other clubs

fans quickly forget that all that money that came in last season has gone. All the money we we getting in January.., that’s gone, we brought Bergwein and paid for Lo Celso

we will not be sitting on much money ill hazard a guess and say Liverpool had some big transfer bills to pay too as most deals are done in instalments

football clubs in reality generally lose money and the fact that two of the ones that make money feel the need to do this says a lot... it says how fudged and I’ve reliant the game is on £££

And the other clubs are toys for richer people to play with

 

[Mikey10]

Liverpool fans are even trying to say the club are paying their staff the full amount but using the word Furlough because they would never be as bad as other clubs

fans quickly forget that all that money that came in last season has gone. All the money we we getting in January.., that’s gone, we bought Bergwein and paid for Lo Celso

we will not be sitting on much money Weill hazard a guess and say Liverpool had some big transfer bills to pay too as most deals are done in instalments

football clubs in reality generally lose money and the fact that two of the ones that make money feel the need to do this says a lot... it says how fudged and I’ve reliant the game is on £££

And the other clubs are toys for richer people to play with

Surely we are owned by a multi-billionaire? Levy is just the front man. Could Joe Lewis not have put his hand in his pocket to fund the £2 or £3 million pounds it would cost to see the furloughed employees’ wages topped up? Surely that’s small change to him?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Surely we are owned by a multi-billionaire? Levy is just the front man. Could Joe Lewis not have put his hand in his pocket to fund the £2 or £3 million pounds it would cost to see the furloughed employees’ wages topped up? Surely that’s small change to him?

Joe Lewis doesn’t own the club
He owns an investment company (along with some other share holders but he is the main one) called Tavistock. That’s also heavily invested in out her business with a well know one also getting a hammering in monetary terms being Mitchell’s and Butler pubs (unless his shares have been sold) and gold courses and other restaurants too. He will have other investments making money now as he is a shrewd Billionaire
That then owns part of ENIC along with Daniel Levy
ENIC owns 85% of Tottenham
At no point has Joe lewis pit significant money in or taken ANY obvious money out (sure someone will know about some share dealings I don’t)
were very unique that were self funding and that’s why we Ian to make money every season to reinvest
Every other club apart from Burley I believe have had owner funds injected to keep them going
Every other club has had a BIG loss making season in the last 5 years (not sure about pool)
And no other club has invested in their i infrastructure to our level in the world ...
It a finely balanced machine that hedges future income on the basis of TV deals, attendances and events

 

[Grays_1890]

Liverpool, everyone’s standard bearer for romantic clubs furloughed staff

 

[Grays_1890]

Surely we are owned by a multi-billionaire? Levy is just the front man. Could Joe Lewis not have put his hand in his pocket to fund the £2 or £3 million pounds it would cost to see the furloughed employees’ wages topped up? Surely that’s small change to him?

He could but so could most CEOs in the world

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The Professional Footballers' Association says proposals for a 30% pay cut for Premier League players would be "detrimental to our NHS".

The PFA also called on the league to increase its own £20m charity pledge.

The government has said it is "concerned" by what it called "infighting".

The league wants players to take a 30% salary cut in order to protect jobs, amid the coronavirus pandemic.

But the union says that equates to more than £500m in wage reductions, and a loss in tax contributions of more than £200m to the UK government.

The union also questioned Health Secretary Matt Hanrooster's public criticism of footballers' salaries during a news conference on Thursday.

"What effect does this loss of earning to the government mean for the NHS?" the statement read. "Was this considered in the Premier League proposal and did the Health Secretary factor this in when asking players to take a salary cut?"

Oliver Dowden, the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport tweeted: "Concerned about the turn football talks have taken...People do not want to see infighting in our national sport at a time of crisis.

"Football must play its part to show that the sport understands the pressures its lower paid staff, communities and fans face."

• Liverpool furlough some non-playing staff

The PFA said all Premier League players "will play their part in making significant financial contributions in these unprecedented times".

England manager Gareth Southgate is reported to have made such a gesture by agreeing a 30% pay cut, although the Football Association declined to confirm when asked by BBC Sport.

Top-flight professionals have been coming under increasing pressure to take a drop in pay, especially with five Premier League clubs - Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Tottenham, Bournemouth and Norwich - now placing some non-playing staff on furlough leave under the Government's coronavirus job retention scheme.

However, clubs themselves are understood to have financial concerns, with Burnley saying on Saturday they they faced a shortfall of £50m if the Premier League season was not completed.

Brighton chief executive Paul Barber, meanwhile, said the Premier League was not ignoring the plight of the general population during the coronavirus pandemic.

The PFA statement came hours after a conference call with the Premier League and the League Managers' Association (LMA), the managers' union, to discuss the wage cut plans.

Saturday's call, which featured a Premier League presentation of the wage cut plans, was concluded in less than an hour with no agreement reached.

The Premier League is not mandated to make a decision on wage cuts, as it has to be agreed by the players and coaches. Clubs and players are now set to discuss the plan, with talks set to go into next week.

As part of the proposals, the Premier League would advance £125m to the English Football League (EFL) and National League, and give £20m towards the NHS.

The PFA says it is happy to continue talks with the Premier League, although it added: "£20m is welcome, but we believe it could be far bigger.

"The EFL money is an advance. Importantly, it will aid cashflow in the immediate, but football needs to find a way to increase funding to the EFL and non-league clubs in the long-term.

"Many clubs require an increase in funding just to survive. We believe in our football pyramid and again stress the need for solidarity between all clubs.

"Going forward, we are working together to find a solution which will be continually reviewed in order to assess the circumstance of the Covid-19 crisis.

"The players are mindful that as PAYE employees, the combined tax on their salaries is a significant contribution to funding essential public services - which are especially critical at this time."

During Saturday's conference call, the Premier League warned that it faces a £762m financial penalty if the season does not resume, and broadcasters demanded refunds on games they could not show.

It added that hundreds of millions of pounds could be lost in sponsorship and matchday revenue because the season has been suspended, and that the campaign will almost certainly be played behind closed doors if it resumes.

Speaking to BBC Radio 5 Live, England defender Danny Rose - on loan at Saudi Sportswashing Machine from Tottenham - said that Premier League players were keen to give up a portion of their wages to help good causes, but felt their "backs are against the wall" regarding the pressure they had faced to accept cuts.

Captains of Premier League clubs, led by Liverpool's Jordan Henderson, have been in talks over a plan to make charitable donations.

"We sort of feel that our backs are against the wall. Conversations were being had before people outside of football were commenting," Rose told the Friday Football Social.

"I've been on the phone to Jordan Henderson and he's working so hard to come up with something.

"It was just not needed for people who are not involved in football to tell footballers what they should do with their money. I found that so bizarre."

The Premier League declined to comment on the PFA statement.

 

[DeanoAustin]

The players’ argument is fair enough. But they seem to think they can continue to draw a full wage and things will be okay. That’s not realistic, football clubs can’t support that. So is their argument that billionaire owners should fund their wages which will continue to go to the government via tax and elsewhere via charitable donations?

Here’s why clubs can’t afford this for very long. I’ve searched for our accounts for 2019 and can’t find them so I use Liverpool as an example. They had £37m cash in the bank. They had short term (less than 1 year) crrditors of £300m and short term debtors worth £150m. So they have £37m and a short term deficit of £150m which is probably made up of transfer installments and didn’t they do work on Anfield?

They have around £2m a week going out the door in player wages as well as the other regular expenditures wrapped up in the -£150m. They now have no revenue coming in to pay for that. The football club can only fund that for a few months before they need to borrow or need a cash injection from the owners.

Football clubs turn over large sums of money but that doesn’t mean they have massive sums of cash lying around to fund an exceptional event like this.

 

[Mikey10]

The players’ argument is fair enough. But they seem to think they can continue to draw a full wage and things will be okay. That’s not realistic, football clubs can’t support that. So is their argument that billionaire owners should fund their wages which will continue to go to the government via tax and elsewhere via charitable donations?

Here’s why clubs can’t afford this for very long. I’ve searched for our accounts for 2019 and can’t find them so I use Liverpool as an example. They had £37m cash in the bank. They had short term (less than 1 year) crrditors of £300m and short term debtors worth £150m. So they have £37m and a short term deficit of £150m which is probably made up of transfer installments and didn’t they do work on Anfield?

They have around £2m a week going out the door in player wages as well as the other regular expenditures wrapped up in the -£150m. They now have no revenue coming in to pay for that. The football club can only fund that for a few months before they need to borrow or need a cash injection from the owners.

Football clubs turn over large sums of money but that doesn’t mean they have massive sums of cash lying around to fund an exceptional event like this.

It’s a good argument to say the business model is broken and needs to be re-examined once all of this is over. You’d imagine the issue of footballers’ wages is going to be under continuing intense scrutiny in a country trying to find its way out of the economic mess we’ll be in.

 

[Mikey10]

Joe Lewis doesn’t own the club
He owns an investment company (along with some other share holders but he is the main one) called Tavistock. That’s also heavily invested in out her business with a well know one also getting a hammering in monetary terms being Mitchell’s and Butler pubs (unless his shares have been sold) and gold courses and other restaurants too. He will have other investments making money now as he is a shrewd Billionaire
That then owns part of ENIC along with Daniel Levy
ENIC owns 85% of Tottenham
At no point has Joe lewis pit significant money in or taken ANY obvious money out (sure someone will know about some share dealings I don’t)
were very unique that were self funding and that’s why we Ian to make money every season to reinvest
Every other club apart from Burley I believe have had owner funds injected to keep them going
Every other club has had a BIG loss making season in the last 5 years (not sure about pool)
And no other club has invested in their i infrastructure to our level in the world ...
It a finely balanced machine that hedges future income on the basis of TV deals, attendances and events

I’m sure Joe will get more than his fair share of money out when he (or whatever complicated system of ownership he has constructed, for whatever purpose - and we can all probably have a good guess at what that purpose is) sells us.

 

[Mikey10]

He could but so could most CEOs in the world

Very good idea! Let’s hope they get on with it and follow the millions of working people having to take a significantly larger hit to their pay packets.

Don’t hold your breath though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’m sure Joe will get more than his fair share of money out when he (or whatever complicated system of ownership he has constructed, for whatever purpose - and we can all probably have a good guess at what that purpose is) sells us.

And as I’ve said before I can’t see anyone buying us now as our value so too high so little return available
Someone would need to lay out around £2b
So that’s someone who is worth £20B ish assuming their happy to spend 10% of their wealth on a footy club
And the combined wealth of the premier life clubs owners currently is £80b apparently (not sure what they have used for city’s owners)
Plus as I’ve said Joe Lewis other investments will be taking hits too