Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Baleforce]

What?..... In the preceeding 20 years we won 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup and 1 League Cup?

I don't think under Levy's stewardship we have been any less likely to lose key players than we were back in the previous 20 years. Judas, Carrick, Bale, Modric, Berbatov, Keane, Eriksen. All of them in the best two or three players at the club when they left.

But we’ve paid less attention to the domestic cups in the latter period as they have become essentially worthless, also, the EL has become harder to win due to its format change and CL drop ins (which has changed recently admittedly).

 

[Jurgen the German]

But we’ve paid less attention to the domestic cups in the latter period as they have become essentially worthless, also, the EL has become harder to win due to its format change and CL drop ins (which has changed recently admittedly).

We haven’t paid any less attention to the cups than the rest of the big 6 but they have won numerous trophies compared to our zero last decade. I wonder if people would argue these cups were worthless if we had actually won them. I suspect not.

 

[parklane1]

We won't win trophies if the club isn't run properly.

I think this is a really relevant post, but i am sure those who have slagged Levy off for not spending the same as the financially doped clubs will disagree somehow. i keep hearing fans a talk about competing with rivals on our spending, but in all honesty we can/could not compete with City/Chelski because of the blood money they took in, Utd have always been one of the richest clubs in the World ( and still are) so the comparison with them does not stand up either.

 

[Baleforce]

We haven’t paid any less attention to the cups than the rest of the big 6 but they have won numerous trophies compared to our zero last decade. I wonder if people would argue these cups were worthless if we had actually won them. I suspect not.

The richer clubs have deeper squads.

United and Arsenal fans don't seem to be satisfied with the domestic cups.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But we’ve paid less attention to the domestic cups in the latter period as they have become essentially worthless, also, the EL has become harder to win due to its format change and CL drop ins (which has changed recently admittedly).

We've paid less attention to them? We seem to have been in a fair number of semi-finals for a club paying less attention to the domestic cups?

Also I think perhaps somebody should let Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal know that those domestic cups are actually worthless, then they might stop winning them and actually give us a chance to get some silverware!

 

[billyiddo]

The richer clubs have deeper squads.

United and Arsenal fans don't seem to be satisfied with the domestic cups.

Arsenal fans hounded out their greatest ever manager having won 3 FA Cups on the spin because they slipped out of the top 4

 

[Jurgen the German]

Because you and @Hootnow miss the point

- No one is fanboying our balance sheet, what people are appreciating is the club has been managed in a way that has allowed us to overcome a massive financial disparity that ENIC/Levy inherited, get good results and close that gap to where we have now passed the Scum and Chelsea fiscally for the first time in multiple decades. This is very important as a future indicator of our ability to meet those ambitions that you talk about (winning things).
- The other clubs had not only in year advantage in revenue, but cumulative advantage (e.g. Scum earned CL revenue for over 16+ seasons in a row), that plus the draw of "guaranteed" CL participation was a massive disadvantage as a starting point
- Poch is irrelevant (I'm sorry and yes people will get angry because people fanboy him more than Levy), he is just another manager in a line of managers that so far have each improved on the predecessor's results, while I am glad for what he achieved and the feeling he created around the club, the fact that it is almost a linear improvement of results in 19 years means it's not "only" the manager, add in, BMJ, Harry, AVB and Poch (so far) have had the best managerial results of their careers here, tends to indicate it's the platform they are given

Again, do we want to win trophies = yes
Do we want to be flavor of the week = no, Wolves, Everton, Leicester (yes, even with this season), whoever, all have one off seasons where they challenge, maybe even win something but it is not a sustainable platform.

Manchester United is the biggest threat in this league, because this summer they could go hire a decent coach and spend 500M on players and still not be at risk financially, and they could do it again the following year until they get it right, thank fudge they don't have Levy or a board capable of sensible decisions.

Levy is trying to make us that incapable of being irrelevant because the revenue will always allow us to buy ourselves out of any interim challenge. It is a long game (19+ years, 10+ just for the stadium) and it's working, and that's what people admire, when last did you see a 5 year "project" actually play out? you are watching a 25 year project now.

I’ve seen posters get more emotive about Levy than any player or manager, past or present. Again, I think this is bizarre but that’s just me.

Hootnow has articulated it far more eloquently than I could but I feel very similar about the whole situation. I appreciate and respect Levy for what he has done for the club. I would however like to see him prioritise the football side of things a bit more going forward. I find some of the “Levy is the best chairman in football” comments a bit hyperbolic. Is he one of the best? Without question, I just don’t know how people can say unequivocally he is the best. I think overall results I.e. trophies have to be at least part of the yardstick personally.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The richer clubs have deeper squads.

United and Arsenal fans don't seem to be satisfied with the domestic cups.

Of course they are not because big clubs challenge for the top honours AND win trophies. If Utd and scum had been getting close to winning the PL and CL rather than finishing 5th/6th then they would have been far more satisfied. Only one club can win the league but if you don’t win it then those clubs have to at least challenge, which neither of them have done for at least 6-7 years.

 

[Baleforce]

We've paid less attention to them? We seem to have been in a fair number of semi-finals for a club paying less attention to the domestic cups?

Also I think perhaps somebody should let Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal know that those domestic cups are actually worthless, then they might stop winning them and actually give us a chance to get some silverware!

Relative to selections in the PL yes, Poch even got stick for resting players for a game against Dortmund in the EL iirc.

They have the resources to chase more trivialities than us, it doesn't impact their league form in the same way as us, it also gives them consolation prizes when the title/CL is gone, our focus is CL qualification, everything else is a distraction, it's simply a matter of resource allocation, and we have fewer resources.

 

[Baleforce]

I’ve seen posters get more emotive about Levy than any player or manager, past or present. Again, I think this is bizarre but that’s just me.

Hootnow has articulated it far more eloquently than I could but I feel very similar about the whole situation. I appreciate and respect Levy for what he has done for the club. I would however like to see him prioritise the football side of things a bit more going forward. I find some of the “Levy is the best chairman in football” comments a bit hyperbolic. Is he one of the best? Without question, I just don’t know how people can say unequivocally he is the best. I think overall results I.e. trophies have to be at least part of the yardstick personally.

I don't think the club internally see sides, things aren't football or business decisions, they are Tottenham decisions.

 

[glasgowspur]

In 2018 Liverpool's wage bill was higher than that of both Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea?

In fact you could probably make a very direct correlation to Liverpool increasing their wage bill up above their direct competitors and suddenly starting to win the big trophies (CL last season and PL (as a minimum) this season).

I'm a bit confused, is your first paragraph asking me if Liverpool of 2018 had higher wages than City and Chelsea? I honestly don't know, but I would be surprised if they were.
I don't doubt that Liverpool taking the next step is linked going out and getting keita, vvd and Alison on wage deals we wouldn't be able to match, they were in a position to do so. We aren't.
They can now complete with the true bigger clubs, at least with the sensible deals, not vanity one like pogba and Sanchez.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Arsenal fans hounded out their greatest ever manager having won 3 FA Cups on the spin because they slipped out of the top 4

They also failed to challenge for the title in over a decade. Every club has its priorities. Theirs is the league and the CL, well at least it used to be. Emirates Marketing Project’s is the CL. Liverpool are probably the only club in world football who would rather win the league than the CL but when you haven’t won it in so long after being accustomed to winning it so often I guess it’s not hard to understand why.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Arsenal fans hounded out their greatest ever manager having won 3 FA Cups on the spin because they slipped out of the top 4

And just think of how much stick we gave them over their 'top 4 trophy' stuff?

I think they won the FA Cup 3 times out of 4, not 3 times in a row?

I think the Arsenal fans hounded their manager out for two reasons.

1. They had become used to winning or at least challenging for the title and seen that completely slip away.
2. (and this is probably more pertinent) they started to finish behind us in the league.

I think Arsenal fans are now discovering that the reason they have become less competitive was not due to the manager (who was perhaps even slightly overachieving?) but instead due to the fact that they had slipped from being one of the biggest 3 payers in the league to the 5th biggest.

I don't know about you but I'd happily win the FA Cup in three of the next four seasons while finishing 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 5th in the league. If Mourinho managed that at Spurs I would happily continue to sing his name even if winning nothing and finishing 6th in the league in year 5 (as was Wenger's last season). In fact offer me that exact same run now for the next five seasons and I would bite your arm off for it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't think the club internally see sides, things aren't football or business decisions, they are Tottenham decisions.

When players are signed late in the transfer window presumably for financial reasons ahead of getting them in earlier and giving them a pre season with the club I would say that stance is wrong and an example of money ruling over the football side.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'm a bit confused, is your first paragraph asking me if Liverpool of 2018 had higher wages than City and Chelsea? I honestly don't know, but I would be surprised if they were.
I don't doubt that Liverpool taking the next step is linked going out and getting keita, vvd and Alison on wage deals we wouldn't be able to match, they were in a position to do so. We aren't.
They can now complete with the true bigger clubs, at least with the sensible deals, not vanity one like pogba and Sanchez.

Sorry, I agree that I added an errant question mark that made my post difficult to follow.

You had said that Liverpool had a low wage bill. I pointed out that it was 80% bigger than ours. You said you meant in comparison to Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea's. However SteveAWOL's post towards the bottom of page 230 shows that Liverpool's wage bill actually overtook Chelsea's in 2017 and Emirates Marketing Project's in 2018.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Relative to selections in the PL yes, Poch even got stick for resting players for a game against Dortmund in the EL iirc.

They have the resources to chase more trivialities than us, it doesn't impact their league form in the same way as us, it also gives them consolation prizes when the title/CL is gone, our focus is CL qualification, everything else is a distraction, it's simply a matter of resource allocation, and we have fewer resources.

So, yet again.... In comparison to the clubs we think we are competing against we underpay.

 

[Finney Is Back]

When players are signed late in the transfer window presumably for financial reasons ahead of getting them in earlier and giving them a pre season with the club I would say that stance is wrong and an example of money ruling over the football side.

I think that can depend on the reason why. For Lo Celso for example, I think it was probably valid, the price difference could well have been as much as £10 to £15 million (Seems that we got him for about £42 million and I'm sure there was talk about 60 million euros. For Grealish though when the price is £20 million and you actually value the player higher than that, it makes a lot less sense.

 

[billyiddo]

No one over pays or under pays as there isn't a standard pay structure across leagues/europe that can be referenced.

We pay the wages we negotiate with the players and their agents, same as any other club.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So, yet again.... In comparison to the clubs we think we are competing against we underpay.

you keep on saying under pay but I’d argue they all over pay
Maybe we get great value
As I’ve said numerous times the “under paid players” haven’t won a trophy here and not many had won anything of note before hand
So maybe their pay is right and fair
Doesn’t mean we can afford what others pay which is what I think your arguing by that’s not under paying.

Are Juve under paying Ramsey?
Are Madrid under paying Bale?

 

[Baleforce]

When players are signed late in the transfer window presumably for financial reasons ahead of getting them in earlier and giving them a pre season with the club I would say that stance is wrong and an example of money ruling over the football side.

I think its more a case of long term interest over short term.